It's time to end the Playoff Lowry narrative

[sca]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

The career play-off +/- of +14.4 Lowry.

PER is a very overrated stat

[No-more-rings]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

The career play-off +/- of +14.4 Lowry.

PER is a very overrated stat

And raw +/- isn't?

Per measures actual production in the minutes given, +/- can be noisy especially in small game samples like that.

[agkagk]

Lmao this guy waiting to pump Lowry up. Dudes a perennial playoff choker. Congrats on him finally putting some good games together.

If he played in New York or l.a he’d probably be a first ballot hall of famer.

Crazy underrated, even in Toronto.


Something something intangibles.

[agkagk]

PG
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Lillard
4. Irving
5. Paul
6. Holiday
7. Simmons
8. Kemba
9. Conley
10. Wall
11. Lowry

So yeah he is a too 15 PG, playing well

Funny how in a discussion of playoff failures Simmons is placed above Lowry. Wall above him is a joke. Also think Paul is way too high on that list, he’s riding past experience, this year I think Lowrys been better

I can’t figure out which t word describes heat33 better, tool, troll or teenager.

[reload141]

I know a jinx thread when I see one.

Bucks to win the next 2 games, Lowry doesn't produce anything.

(I'm helping you dukes_wild)

[DaTRUTHk11]

he'll go back to his usual self in game 5, don't worry esp with no Drake to cheer him on! Probably stuffing his mouth with donuts after the win.

[NO-KG-AI]

Ok, Toronto should have no more excuses then. Kawhi is Jordan, and Lowry is the best clutch player in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Mister Ze]

Speaking of chokers against the Bucks:

Read on Twitter

Pretty misleading considering who Kyle has around him versus Irving. One could argue Lowry wouldn’t be able to lead a team to the second round as a number one option.

Kyrie's entire reputation is built off of who he has around him from 2015-2017.

And the tweet is for this season so I don’t see why 2015-2017 is relevant

[GeorgeMarcus]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

The career play-off +/- of +14.4 Lowry.

PER is a very overrated stat

And raw +/- isn't?

Per measures actual production in the minutes given, +/- can be noisy especially in small game samples like that.

His +/- is more impressive when compared to other Raptors over the years (DeRozan for example). So you’re right, raw +/- doesn’t quite do it justice. His impact is glaringly positive

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I love Lowry but he's not the third best pg in the NBA

[VinBaker6]

He's better than that fraud Kyrie. We're seeing it now.

[Roco14]

I'm a big Lowry fan but there's no way he's better than Kyrie today. if we're talking about 2014 - 2016 Lowry versus any version of Kyrie? We can have a discussion about it, I'd probably take Lowry just because of the little things he did above scoring back in the day, but it would be close.

Current PG's definitely better than Lowry:

1) Steph
2) Lillard
3) Irving
4) Kemba
5) Holiday

You could put Westbrook up there, I personally wouldn't. Not a fan. You could also make a case for Conley.

[sca]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

The career play-off +/- of +14.4 Lowry.

PER is a very overrated stat

And raw +/- isn't?

Per measures actual production in the minutes given, +/- can be noisy especially in small game samples like that.

Sorry, forgot to mention that this wasn’t raw +/-, it’s on-off +/-, which is much better than raw +/-. Over a 78 game, 2675 minutes sample, his teams have constantly and vastly been better when he was on the court. You’re making the same mistake that box-score watchers do, i.e. trying to gauge Lowry’s value with stats like PER, which doesn’t take many of the things he does into account, and is heavily efficiency driven, which, as many mentioned, is the least important aspect in his game.

[sca]

And I don’t think raw comparisons make sense 90% of the time. A glue guy like Lowry makes much more sense if you already have an established go-to guy, and you also have some reliable scorers around him. But for most talent-deprived teams, I agree that guys like Kemba, Kyrie etc. might make more sense.

[agkagk]

PG
1. Curry
2. Westbrook
3. Lillard
4. Irving
5. Paul
6. Holiday
7. Simmons
8. Kemba
9. Conley
10. Wall
11. Lowry

So yeah he is a too 15 PG, playing well

I agree with 1-6, but, Simmons, Conley, and Wall over Lowry? You and I shoot better than Simmons, and Wall has literally done nothing outside of tip bottle waitresses really well.

Point guard is all about winning. this is a list of the most talented basketball player, not best point guard.

curry by a mile
lillard probably
lowry
paul cause hes old now
conley

thats my list, westbrook gets a pass because hes not a point guard.

[The_Hater]

The career playoff PER of 15.7 Lowry?

The career play-off +/- of +14.4 Lowry.

PER is a very overrated stat

And raw +/- isn't?

Per measures actual production in the minutes given, +/- can be noisy especially in small game samples like that.

I’m hopeful that you’re not trying to argue that PER is more useful than raw +/- ? PER hasn’t been a relative stat in debates for 10 years now.

Anyways, the problem with looking at Lowry’s career playoff stats is he either playing hurt or just playing poorly his first 2 full seasons with Toronto. And then he stunk out the joint in round 1 vs Indiana the following year. He shouldn’t have even played against Washington in 2015 which was his worst series of the bunch because he wasn't even close to 100%. Nobody in Raptorland is arguing that he was good over this period because he wasn’t. He played poorly.

But if we take his last 8 playoff series over the last 4 seasons, starting the conference finals vs the Cavs, he was played at an extremely high level. And this thread is about just that, ending the narrative that he’s a bad playoff performer because it’s simply no longer true

[Johnny Bball]

The love hate relationship b/w TOR fans & Lowry is one helluva roller coaster ride.

This guy isn't a Toronto fan. He's a Lowry and Valanciunas fan. He doesn't even care about the raptors anymore. So you can use that to weigh the value of this.

[dakomish23]

The love hate relationship b/w TOR fans & Lowry is one helluva roller coaster ride.

This guy isn't a Toronto fan. He's a Lowry and Valanciunas fan. He doesn't even care about the raptors anymore. So you can use that to weigh the value of this.

It’s not about him. I’ve seen the love for Lowry be all over the place depending on his last performance.

[Johnny Bball]

The love hate relationship b/w TOR fans & Lowry is one helluva roller coaster ride.

This guy isn't a Toronto fan. He's a Lowry and Valanciunas fan. He doesn't even care about the raptors anymore. So you can use that to weigh the value of this.

It’s not about him. I’ve seen the love for Lowry be all over the place depending on his last performance.

I will say first, that the choker/clutch label is used by people that have never felt a moment like that in their life and have no idea what it is. That both are thrown around in a way that's so pointless and misses half of what really went on.

As for Lowry, he's not as bad as most people think, and most people don;t even know what he brings. But he's not the 3rd best PG or really very close to it and here he's over rated.

And when he has a terrible performance, stop by our board some time and watch how the children rip him apart.

[dukes_wild]

The love hate relationship b/w TOR fans & Lowry is one helluva roller coaster ride.

This guy isn't a Toronto fan. He's a Lowry and Valanciunas fan. He doesn't even care about the raptors anymore. So you can use that to weigh the value of this.

LOL!