Woj: Kawhi still leaning towards Clippers, Raptors have a lot of work to do still

[OkcSinceSGA]

I don't get how the Raptors "have a lot of work to do" statement.

translated it means Woj has no idea what will happen.

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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[OkcSinceSGA]

I am tired of telling people this, the Warriors did not take the Clippers seriously. Compare the Warrior's effort in the finals vs the 1st round. They were on cruise control mode. I am not trying to take away from the Clippers, but the Warriors were sleepwalking through that series.

Durant averaged what 35/10/5 that series?

Kevin Durant averaged 72% TS on 33% USG against the Clippers. Scoring on 6 foot Patrick Beverly and the rest of the underdog Clippers was beyond effortless for him, they simply had no one who could even hope to slow him down.

(For comparison, Durant averaged 59% TS on 33% USG against the Rockets.)

Warriors called them one of their toughest series mentally and physically in the last few years.

The Warriors outscored the Clippers by an average margin of victory of 9.8 points over 6 games, which is slightly higher than their average margin of victory against the Blazers (9.5 points, 4 games), and far higher than their margin of victory against the Rockets (1.8 points, 6 games).

It wasn't a tough series for the Warriors at all.

Klay was healthy. Much harder team than the Raptors faced.

The Clippers would still lose unceremoniously to the Warriors even if Kevin Durant was out for the entire series and Klay Thompson missed one full game. Stephen Curry averaged 71% TS on 25% USG against the Clippers, which is beyond effortless even for him. (For comparison, Curry averaged 54% TS on 28% USG against the Rockets, 66% TS on 35% USG against the Blazers, and 60% TS on 30% USG against the Raptors. Just like Durant, Curry absolutely lit up the Clippers.)

No context. In 2 of the 3 real blowouts the games were close most of the time until the 4th. Only 1 game did the Warriors pretty much dominate start to finish. That was a healthy Warriors mind you, fully rested. As for Klay he didnt miss finals games besides the very untimely one, but he was injured since game 6 of the Clippers series.

As for the Clippers not being able to guard KD, no ****. They weren't even supposed to be there. Wonder how much better the Warriors differentials against the next teams would be with KD?? They were heavy title favorites.

[Duffman100]

translated it means Woj has no idea what will happen.

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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What's your definition of a treadmill team?

[Blacksheep25]

I think one element people are forgetting is how personal It got between Pops and Kawhi/his uncle. It clearly it still bothering Kawhi. People talk about the trade as if it was the best Pops could do. Maybe it was, but if you don’t think Pops got a kick out of,” oh he wants to go to LA, how about we send his ass to Canada. He hates the cold, he’ll love that.”

Guys have been wanting to go to LA for decades. Pops was around To watch that, and I don’t recall him saying a word about the Chris Paul situation or any of the times guys tried to get to LA. Now he wants to get in the FO of New Orleans ear about LA even though KL isn’t associated with the Lakers or Klutch. It’s personal now with him.

And it’s personal with Kawhi. The first time he has ever really spoke at length basically ever, if you listened closely, it was basically all a middle finger to the Spurs. It was basically you said I was lying and demeaned my character, so I came where you forced me and won despite that. His words all season can be viewed through few different lenses. He said he appreciated them keeping their word about his health. He appreciated the fans. He was happy to have helped them win a championship. They deserved it. Talking with Lowry he laughed about early difficulties. All sound like a guy who very much viewed himself as a mercenary and was out to prove some things. He sounds very detached. Like he emotionally never thought of himself as a member of the Raptors.

If you get to the heart of his comments, and add in that press conference after the shot against the Sixers where he says this would have been my last game, then realizes it and adds this year. He realizes he’s saying them and they after the fact and adds in a halfhearted we at the end.

Everything with Lowry and his other comments all sound like some variation of ,”well everyone knows where I wanted to go, but we made the best of this bad situation. And I showed the Spurs.”

So he won it all and gave the Spurs the middle finger, but he’s still playing and has to live part time where Pops sent him as a big f you.


He’s a proud and strong kid. I truly believe he let it motivate him and he had one of the best playoff runs ever, but all his words sound like a guy who very much viewed himself as detached from the situation. I think he truly likes his teammates. I think he appreciates the love from the fans. I think he’s appreciative that if you’re a front office that dealt with Pop and prevented him from going where he wanted to be, at least you kept your word and didn’t break me down physically.

But winning in Toronto is only part of the revenge. He’s still living where Pop sold him to. Even if he likes it and under normal circumstances would stay, that alone may not sit well with him. Also the Spurs are years away right now. Getting to the West and beating them more frequently and possibly in the playoffs would make him happy if guess. They were o the forefront of his mind immediately after winning the finals.

There’s more to this than simply basketball fit or that they love him up there. The Raptors was Pop’s choice for him because Pops knew what he wanted, so he sent him to the exact opposite. I think he’s of the mind to give Pops the middle finger again and say you sent me to Canada and I won even there, and look now, I still got where I wanted to go and I’m wearing another ring on the flight home.

[mademan]

No reason for Kawhi to stay in Toronto. He’s proven at this point wherever he goes they can beat anyone.

He’s Clipper bound.

By winning with the best organization who's been winning for 15 years before him?

Or by taking Derozans place on a 60 win team?

Dude's amazing and has been ridiculous for the Raps; but this chit wasnt a 1 man band.

Im sorry how many championships did they win without Kawhi?

I’ll wait.

Still a ridiculous assertion he can win where ever he goes. He replaced the 1st option, who many didnt/dont believe to be a top 30 player, on the 1st seed in the East. He also was a part of a dynastic team in SA who's run spanned over a decade.

Kawhi's a terrific player who can be argued to be the best in the league, but he's also had terrific support.

[Hipster Doofus]

Let's look at it from another angle - astrologically.

Leonard was born on June 29th - which in the zodiac calendar is a Cancer.

Leonard displays many signs of being a Cancer, such as introversion, shyness, but also a steel determination and flashes of brilliance in the right environment.

Cancers are very trustworthy individuals.

On the other hand, a Cancer is the sign of the crab. If a crab senses danger, or if you even touch it, it goes immediately into its hard, safe shell. A Cancer is the sign of water (crab), and if you disturb a crab, where does it long to go? It longs to go home, into the water, into the safety of the ocean.

This could be completely wrong, but I think Kawhi will be struggling over the next couple of weeks with the two of the biggest qualities of a crab: being 'trustworthy' towards the Raptors as they have treated him like a king vs. longing to go home, finally, safe by the water where the crab belongs.

I think ultimately Kawhi will retreat to the water, home...in California.

[KrazyP]

translated it means Woj has no idea what will happen.

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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The Cavs/Warriors were the only teams that weren't treadmilling in the 3 yrs prior to this one.

Over that span, the only team the Raps lost to in the playoffs was Lebron.

[TheBoi10]

That Clippers propaganda $$ is still coming through

[OkcSinceSGA]

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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What's your definition of a treadmill team?

I think it's a misnomer first of all. Treadmill team to most simply means not getting to the finals, or early exits every year. Yet to me that's an unfair criteria. Blazers for example are a really good team. Just not better than the Warriors or Rockets. That just means they aren't as talented. Clippers in Blake/CP3 era were basically Raptors of the west without the happy ending. The question is... Is it better to blow up a team for better top end talent, or hang in there like the Raptors did (albeit with a huge couple trades) . Raptors are different because they didn't run it back with same core. They tweaked core big-time. Most of these teams stick with same core and try to tweak the role players.

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[DowJones]

If He heads to LA then it is just because he wants to live there. Toronto can offer him more money and a better basketball situation. That is all Toronto can do.

[The_Hater]

translated it means Woj has no idea what will happen.

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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Universally considered ? They did win 59 games one season before Kawhi got there, that doesn’t sound like a treadmill. Were they better team with Kawhi? Well sure, but I’m Not sure how winning 50-59 games every season makes you a treadmill team, it usually means that you might be one or two players from winning a title. And they were. They also had the 4th most total wins in the league between 2013-14 and 2017-18 while treadmilling.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I’m pretty sure it would mean he doesn’t want to have to carry the load at both ends the way he had to this postseason because it’s a massive strain on his body, he couldn’t even dunk in the Finals. They need to get another consistent star. They also were fortunate to run up against a depleted team - that’s part of the game, but you need to do something to convince him it’s repeatable.

They also need to convince him the team isn’t a year or so away from Gasol/Lowry/Ibaka/Green being over the hill. Just saying “we have cap space next summer” isn’t enough, it’s no guarantee of anything.

That said, I think everyone who thinks the Clippers are a pre-baked contender who just need to add Kawhi are overrating them. They overachieved in a season where half the West had a weirdly bad year. Everyone’s talking about Doc Rivers being this master coach, but unless he has prime KG, overachieving with underdog teams seems to be all he really accomplishes. The Celtics let him walk & were fine, while the Lob City era Clippers never once got out of the second round.

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

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Universally considered ? They did win 59 games one season before Kawhi got there, that doesn’t sound like a treadmill. Were they better team with Kawhi? Well sure, but I’m Not sure how winning 50-59 games every season makes you a treadmill team, it usually means that you might be one or two players from winning a title. And they were. They also had the 4th most total wins in the league between 2013-14 and 2017-18 while treadmilling.

Read my above post. I think the term treadmill is a bit of a cop out, but that's what most considered it. Hey Clippers won between 55-57 in the west a few years in a row with 2nd round exits vs mostly higher seeded teams, so I guess they deserve same benefit of doubt? They had the 3rd or 4th best win percentage in the CP3 era too. Again, Raptors fans should understand better than anyone why it's important to stay humble about it.

[The_Hater]

Didn't the Raptors get out of the 2nd round just once despite being in the east? It's crazy how one break through (almost lost to Sixers also) and suddenly Raptors can teach everyone how to win lol. They were universally considered a treadmill team and 2nd round fizz out the last few years

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app

Universally considered ? They did win 59 games one season before Kawhi got there, that doesn’t sound like a treadmill. Were they better team with Kawhi? Well sure, but I’m Not sure how winning 50-59 games every season makes you a treadmill team, it usually means that you might be one or two players from winning a title. And they were. They also had the 4th most total wins in the league between 2013-14 and 2017-18 while treadmilling.

Read my above post. I think the term treadmill is a bit of a cop out, but that's what most considered it. Hey Clippers won between 55-57 in the west a few years in a row with 2nd round exits vs mostly higher seeded teams, so I guess they deserve same benefit of doubt? They had the 3rd or 4th best win percentage in the CP3 era too. Again, Raptors fans should understand better than anyone why it's important to stay humble about it.

That’s fair, but just because some fans consider 55 win teams to be treadmill teams doesn’t mean that Kawhi Leonard does.

Either way, if he chooses the Clippers over the Raps I don’t think it would be because of the roster and which team he thinks has a better opportunity to win going forward. It’s because he wants to go home and the Clippers have a better organization than the Lakers. If he wanted both, immediately, he’d just team up with Lebron and the Lakers would be a legit contender next season.

[Klayforspicy]

If He heads to LA then it is just because he wants to live there. Toronto can offer him more money and a better basketball situation. That is all Toronto can do.

The money part doesn't really matter. Teams can put together bs endorsements/ business ventures to cover the difference. (See KD)

[OkcSinceSGA]

Universally considered ? They did win 59 games one season before Kawhi got there, that doesn’t sound like a treadmill. Were they better team with Kawhi? Well sure, but I’m Not sure how winning 50-59 games every season makes you a treadmill team, it usually means that you might be one or two players from winning a title. And they were. They also had the 4th most total wins in the league between 2013-14 and 2017-18 while treadmilling.

Read my above post. I think the term treadmill is a bit of a cop out, but that's what most considered it. Hey Clippers won between 55-57 in the west a few years in a row with 2nd round exits vs mostly higher seeded teams, so I guess they deserve same benefit of doubt? They had the 3rd or 4th best win percentage in the CP3 era too. Again, Raptors fans should understand better than anyone why it's important to stay humble about it.

That’s fair, but just because some fans consider 55 win teams to be treadmill teams doesn’t mean that Kawhi Leonard does.

Either way, if he chooses the Clippers over the Raps I don’t think it would be because of the roster and which team he thinks has a better opportunity to win going forward. It’s because he wants to go home and the Clippers have a better organization than the Lakers. If he wanted both, immediately, he’d just team up with Lebron and the Lakers would be a legit contender next season.

It's a huge factor. I've never argued otherwise. Its just a shame when Raptors fans are saying it's purely the weather. Disregarding the Clippers also have a great front office, richest owner in pro sports who loves his team and some nice pieces as role players. I'd think Toronto fans of all people would appreciate SGA's upside. Remember how good he looked in his game in Toronto too?

Watch on YouTube

[The_Hater]

Read my above post. I think the term treadmill is a bit of a cop out, but that's what most considered it. Hey Clippers won between 55-57 in the west a few years in a row with 2nd round exits vs mostly higher seeded teams, so I guess they deserve same benefit of doubt? They had the 3rd or 4th best win percentage in the CP3 era too. Again, Raptors fans should understand better than anyone why it's important to stay humble about it.

That’s fair, but just because some fans consider 55 win teams to be treadmill teams doesn’t mean that Kawhi Leonard does.

Either way, if he chooses the Clippers over the Raps I don’t think it would be because of the roster and which team he thinks has a better opportunity to win going forward. It’s because he wants to go home and the Clippers have a better organization than the Lakers. If he wanted both, immediately, he’d just team up with Lebron and the Lakers would be a legit contender next season.

It's a huge factor. I've never argued otherwise. Its just a shame when Raptors fans are saying it's purely the weather. Disregarding the Clippers also have a great front office, richest owner in pro sports who loves his team and some nice pieces as role players. I'd think Toronto fans of all people would appreciate SGA's upside. Remember how good he looked in his game in Toronto too?

Watch on YouTube

I like Shai, but I hope you realize that superstars don’t join teams because they have a promising player who just made 2nd team all rookie. Plus Kuzma and Ball both made All-rookie 12 months ago. That’s not how it works.

[OkcSinceSGA]

That’s fair, but just because some fans consider 55 win teams to be treadmill teams doesn’t mean that Kawhi Leonard does.

Either way, if he chooses the Clippers over the Raps I don’t think it would be because of the roster and which team he thinks has a better opportunity to win going forward. It’s because he wants to go home and the Clippers have a better organization than the Lakers. If he wanted both, immediately, he’d just team up with Lebron and the Lakers would be a legit contender next season.

It's a huge factor. I've never argued otherwise. Its just a shame when Raptors fans are saying it's purely the weather. Disregarding the Clippers also have a great front office, richest owner in pro sports who loves his team and some nice pieces as role players. I'd think Toronto fans of all people would appreciate SGA's upside. Remember how good he looked in his game in Toronto too?

Watch on YouTube

I like Shai, but I hope you realize that superstars don’t join teams because they have a promising player who just made 2nd team all rookie. Plus Kuzma and Ball both made All-rookie 12 months ago. That’s not how it works.

Maybe not. I do think young players with upside to be a star potentially, or at least great starter for many years in the Mike Conley mold, should be a factor. It's short sighted IMO to only look at veteran established players. Gotta consider upside.

PS.. SGA should of been first team. Sure his stats weren't huge, but they are in line with multiple great rookie PG's learning the position. He was the only rookie to start on a playoff team and was a huge factor this year.

[The_Hater]

It's a huge factor. I've never argued otherwise. Its just a shame when Raptors fans are saying it's purely the weather. Disregarding the Clippers also have a great front office, richest owner in pro sports who loves his team and some nice pieces as role players. I'd think Toronto fans of all people would appreciate SGA's upside. Remember how good he looked in his game in Toronto too?

Watch on YouTube

I like Shai, but I hope you realize that superstars don’t join teams because they have a promising player who just made 2nd team all rookie. Plus Kuzma and Ball both made All-rookie 12 months ago. That’s not how it works.

Maybe not. I do think young players with upside to be a star potentially, or at least great starter for many years in the Mike Conley mold, should be a factor. It's short sighted IMO to only look at veteran established players. Gotta consider upside.

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If Kawhi listed the top 30 things he’s considering as a free agent, I doubt that ‘playing with Shai’ cracks his list. Which isn’t a slight on Shai, just reality. It certainly wouldn’t be as important as ‘how good is your medical staff’ and ‘what are your thoughts on load management.’

Anyways, if he’s always had it in his mind that he’s signing with the Clips and nothing has changed, there isn’t anything else anyone needs to do. I personally think he’s going to sign a 1+1 deal with the Raps while they still have the core together and because they have treated him and his family so well, and then opts out and signs with the Clips long term in 2020. We’ll find out.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I like Shai, but I hope you realize that superstars don’t join teams because they have a promising player who just made 2nd team all rookie. Plus Kuzma and Ball both made All-rookie 12 months ago. That’s not how it works.

Maybe not. I do think young players with upside to be a star potentially, or at least great starter for many years in the Mike Conley mold, should be a factor. It's short sighted IMO to only look at veteran established players. Gotta consider upside.

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If Kawhi listed the top 30 things he’s considering as a free agent, I doubt that ‘playing with Shai’ cracks his list. Which isn’t a slight on Shai, just reality.

Anyways, if he’s always had it in his mind that he’s signing with the Clips and nothing has changed, there isn’t anything else anyone needs to do. I personally think he’s going to sign a 1+1 deal with the Raps while they still have the core together and because they have treated him and his family so well, and then opts out and signs with the Clips long term in 2020. We’ll find out.

Yea, IMO "He stay". If he left it would literally be the only time this happened in NBA history. Unprecedented. I do think he will take a full max though wherever he signs. His quad and load management situation makes it dumb to do 1+1 IMO.

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[XxIronChainzxX]

It's a huge factor. I've never argued otherwise. Its just a shame when Raptors fans are saying it's purely the weather. Disregarding the Clippers also have a great front office, richest owner in pro sports who loves his team and some nice pieces as role players. I'd think Toronto fans of all people would appreciate SGA's upside. Remember how good he looked in his game in Toronto too?

Watch on YouTube

I like Shai, but I hope you realize that superstars don’t join teams because they have a promising player who just made 2nd team all rookie. Plus Kuzma and Ball both made All-rookie 12 months ago. That’s not how it works.

Maybe not. I do think young players with upside to be a star potentially, or at least great starter for many years in the Mike Conley mold, should be a factor. It's short sighted IMO to only look at veteran established players. Gotta consider upside.

PS.. SGA should of been first team. Sure his stats weren't huge, but they are in line with multiple great rookie PG's learning the position. He was the only rookie to start on a playoff team and was a huge factor this year.

Your young players are too young, IMO. If Kawhi comes, the Clippers are better off looking for a trade. Kawhi played through a great deal of pain to win this title - he was visibly limping and stopped hiding the fact that he was in a lot of pain. Can SGA be the #2 guy on a title team next year, or the year after that? Kawhi is an incredible player, and I think every Raptor fan would give him the supermax to go put up 2 points on 10% shooting for the next 5 years for this title, but from the Clippers' title hopes POV I'd be worried about the leap the guys need to make to contend.

That being said, with GSW going down completely the West is absolutely wide open. If AD doesn't go to LA and Bulter stays in Philly, then I think the Clippers could win the title next season with Kawhi.