Fire Sam Presti - Enough is enough

[brooklynbrawler]

Yes fire him, and send him to Knicks plz

[dodongo]

Bring Hinkie home, start the process

[Pillendreher]

Sorry to say, but welcome to the real world OKC fans. You've never had to deal with the actual struggles of an NBA team since you started. Presti is the only reason why your team has been relevant for so long.

The team has been relevant because he lucked into the best draft core of all time. After that, he was the main reason things never worked out.

[Pillendreher]

He's done fairly well in the draft

I'd say the last time he really hit on his draft picks was 2013 with Adams and Roberson. Since then, this is his track record:

2014: Huestis - Out of the league
2014: McGary - Out of the league
2015: Payne - Out of the league
2016: Traded for Dion Waiters - Still the same scrub he always was
2016: Sabonis - Has come a long way, but I seriously doubt that we'd have seen the same kind of development here because they were using him as a shooting 4
2017: Ferguson - Might be decent one day, but was one of the worst starters last year
2018: Traded for Enes Kanter - Still the defensive sieve he always was
2019: Bazley - Some kid who rather made money than play basketball
2020: Traded for Jerami Grant - Has become a decent player after 3 years
2022: Traded for Dennis Schröder - Was probably even worse than Melo was for the Thunder

In the last five years, he spent a total of 10 (!) first round picks. I don't even know if he got more than 3 positive impact seasons for the Thunder out of them.

acquiring free agents

Which free agents though? Like I said in the OP: He only really started going after free agents after Durant left. For years the only acquisitions was washed up buyouts. The first time he actually used the MLE in his 12 year tenure was 2017 on Patterson if I'm not mistaken.

and making trades.

He has had some homeruns, but also some very bad ones (especially the pick trading after 2015). But hell: We played Raymond Felton backup wing minutes vs Portland because he didn't even go after a single wing despite losing Roberson in 2018 and Abrines at the end of 2018. Not one guy!

Small-market team with an owner that is not willing to pay the repeater tax (at least so far)

Per spotrac, the Thunder invested a total of 360 million in salary and luxury tax in the last two seasons. I think the "Not willing to pay tax" thing is something of the past.

yet the Thunder have been relevant and contenders for quite a few years.

They have because they lucked into the best draft core in NBA history. Sheer talent always got them where they were, not coaching or roster building.

[marcush]

I think he made a great trade and wouldn’t want anyone else making those picks.

[Optimus_Steel]

I never understood why Presti failed so badly to surround Durant & RW with several 3pt shooters. All he had to do was get multiple shooters to space the floor and they prob would have won one title. Instead he kept investing in long guys that could not shoot. Total mismanagement. Bulls always surrounded MJ/Pippen with shooters, Shaq/Kobe had shooters. It should have been straight forward the type of players they should have acquired.

Well in '15-16 OKC got 5.6 3's per game from the role players in the playoffs. The '95-96 Bulls had 3.3. The reality is that the Bulls didn't do their building around Jordan/Pippen with basket-getters but rebounders. Yes they had some guys who could shoot, but it just wasn't anything that they led with, let alone went out and gotten against other franchises that were also pursuing shooters.

The Lakers in '00-01, their playoff peak also hit 5.6 3's per game for the record. I'd agree with you that they were better at acquiring shooting than the Thunder when you factor in era, but let's not pretend there was an utterly massive difference.

I think what has to be just recognized is that OKC never really got a system going. With Westbrook/Durant they always felt like they were getting by on sheer talent rather than something optimized. And of course it's felt the same with Westbrook post-Durant, and it's happened with more than one coach. I think the original sin here is not installing a system before these guys became superstars. That's something that comes with a serious cost so it's understandable why OKC didn't do this, but if you start realizing your point guard thinks like an individualist you need to give him more structure before he gets set in his ways.

You know better that this, you can't compare OKC's 2016 3pt numbers which happened in the modern era of the 3pt shot vs Chi in the 90s and LA in early 00's, both eras that the 3pt shot were not utilized as much as recent years. Those OKC 3pt numbers look rather low for the modern era. Watching them play it was always clear they were lacking role players that made 3s, specially compared to the teams they were going against in the PO's and it clearly shrunk the floor for KD/RW, allowing for more double teams, trapping, clogging the paint, etc.

[Broke_Pippen]

Fire Presti? LOL this man should be given the medal of honor! He saved us from the NBA being ruined. If he doesn't trade George, KL goes to the Lakers and Bronny wins the next 5 titles. Thanks Sammy, you rock!

[Pillendreher]

I never understood why Presti failed so badly to surround Durant & RW with several 3pt shooters. All he had to do was get multiple shooters to space the floor and they prob would have won one title. Instead he kept investing in long guys that could not shoot. Total mismanagement. Bulls always surrounded MJ/Pippen with shooters, Shaq/Kobe had shooters. It should have been straight forward the type of players they should have acquired.

Well in '15-16 OKC got 5.6 3's per game from the role players in the playoffs. The '95-96 Bulls had 3.3. The reality is that the Bulls didn't do their building around Jordan/Pippen with basket-getters but rebounders. Yes they had some guys who could shoot, but it just wasn't anything that they led with, let alone went out and gotten against other franchises that were also pursuing shooters.

The Lakers in '00-01, their playoff peak also hit 5.6 3's per game for the record. I'd agree with you that they were better at acquiring shooting than the Thunder when you factor in era, but let's not pretend there was an utterly massive difference.

I think what has to be just recognized is that OKC never really got a system going. With Westbrook/Durant they always felt like they were getting by on sheer talent rather than something optimized. And of course it's felt the same with Westbrook post-Durant, and it's happened with more than one coach. I think the original sin here is not installing a system before these guys became superstars. That's something that comes with a serious cost so it's understandable why OKC didn't do this, but if you start realizing your point guard thinks like an individualist you need to give him more structure before he gets set in his ways.

You know better that this, you can't compare OKC's 2016 3pt numbers which happened in the modern era of the 3pt shot vs Chi in the 90s and LA in early 00's, both eras that the 3pt shot were not utilized as much as recent years. Those OKC 3pt numbers look rather low for the modern era. Watching them play it was always clear they were lacking role players that made 3s, specially compared to the teams they were going against in the PO's and it clearly shrunk the floor for KD/RW, allowing for more double teams, trapping, clogging the paint, etc.

Thunder 3P% in every year since they moved to OKC:

2008/2009: 28th, 1.9 % points below league average
2009/2010: 25th, 1.5 % points below league average
2010/2011: 19th, 1.1 % points below league average
2011/2012: 11th, 0.9 % points above league average
2012/2013: 3rd, 1.6 % points above league average
2013/2014: 14th, 0.1 % points above league average
2014/2015: 22nd, 1.1 % points below league average
2015/2016: 17th, 0.5 % points below league average
2016/2017: 30th, 3.1 % points below league average
2017/2018: 24th, 0.8 % points below league average
2018/2019: 22nd, 0.7 % points below league average

Kevin Durant left in 2016. Since then, the Thunder are 28th in 3P% in the 3 seasons combined.

This is the Top 20 for 3PM in franchise history:



James Harden was traded 7 years ago. Thabo played his last game as a Thunder 5 years ago. Jeff Green was traded 8 years ago.

This complete lack of shooting for basically the entirety of Russell Westbrook's career is enough to get him fired, finally. It's just a complete disregard for the way the game went and what kind of players his core needed to be surrounded with. For every shooter this team needed, Presti aquired a skillless athlete with a defensive reputation. He traded known shooter Ilyasova for Jerami Grant, who was nothing but a dunker at the time. He went after Schröder who had never shown an ability to regularly known down 3s on a good percentage.

Hell, since Doc mentioned the 2016 Playoffs: 33.3 3P%. They weren't setting the world on fire there either. Why? Because they had a total of maybe four guys who could even make a 3 with some regularity: Durant, Ibaka, Westbrook and Waiters. The sheer inability to realize that that is simply not enough by the FO still baffles me.

[BallinBug]

Presti has had

Durant- MVP
Westbrook- MVP
Harden- 6th man, under team control
Ibaka
Paul George- MVP candidate, DPOY candidate
Adams
Melo- set career high in 3s in OKC on limited touches
Roberson- All-NBA defense
Oladipo- Got better after leaving

Dude couldn’t make any combination of these players work but there’s a common denominator and it’s Westbrook controlling far too much of what happens on the court on both ends.

He pounds the rock on O, doesn’t let others rebound, shoots bad shots, gambles far too much defensively and gets into shootouts with dudes he can’t even come close to.

Presti’s biggest issue is his loyalty to Russ.

Presti’s biggest issue is doubling down on clear negatives instead of moving them early on: Roberson, Grant, Perkins, Kanter, chucking undersized 2 guards off the bench, Scott Brooks & Billy Donovan. Along with his constant obsession with building a roster to beat the 2010 Lakers even till this day.

I'm not sure how Grant factors in here. He was one of our best 3 point shooters last season and made tremendous jumps in virtually all areas of his game. Grant is not one of our problems.

Roberson being a non shooter should be a problem, but history tells us that our team has had a significant positive net rating every time he was on the floor and fell off every time he was off it. He's a rare case of a player whose defensive impact is so large that it negates a lot of his offensive weaknesses.

OKC's biggest issue, besides terrible coaching, is it's bench construction. There is absolutely zero offense on the bench and not a whole lot of defense either. If OKC had just a league average bench they would probably have a ring during the KD-WB era and would likely have made the second round in WB's MVP season and probably thereafter.

[ZemGOAT]

Fire Presti
Force Bennett to sell
Go back to Seattle

[Antinomy]

Presti has had

Durant- MVP
Westbrook- MVP
Harden- 6th man, under team control
Ibaka
Paul George- MVP candidate, DPOY candidate
Adams
Melo- set career high in 3s in OKC on limited touches
Roberson- All-NBA defense
Oladipo- Got better after leaving

Dude couldn’t make any combination of these players work but there’s a common denominator and it’s Westbrook controlling far too much of what happens on the court on both ends.

He pounds the rock on O, doesn’t let others rebound, shoots bad shots, gambles far too much defensively and gets into shootouts with dudes he can’t even come close to.

Presti’s biggest issue is his loyalty to Russ.

Presti’s biggest issue is doubling down on clear negatives instead of moving them early on: Roberson, Grant, Perkins, Kanter, chucking undersized 2 guards off the bench, Scott Brooks & Billy Donovan. Along with his constant obsession with building a roster to beat the 2010 Lakers even till this day.

I'm not sure how Grant factors in here. He was one of our best 3 point shooters last season and made tremendous jumps in virtually all areas of his game. Grant is not one of our problems.

Roberson being a non shooter should be a problem, but history tells us that our team has had a significant positive net rating every time he was on the floor

Annnd, there goes that argument yet again. Once again, how could any of the Roberson supporters for the past few years watch this team play and say:

“Yeah, allowing opposing teams’ elite defensive players to roam around freely is such a great thing! I love the fact we have to play 4 on 5 offensively essentially creating a zone defense for Russ & KD/PG! But hey, atleast he’s useful for very specific matchups like when he holds guys like Kawhi & Harden to 30-35 points. Thank god for him!”

I figured some of you would’ve come around by now. Roberson should’ve never been starting & playing anywhere near 30 mpg. Even a guy like Tony Allen was stuck in the mid-low 20s most of his career.

Furthermore, Grant shooting 40% last year was clearly an aberration. He’s a guy that CAN shoot but he’s not a shooter. I watch tons of OKC games & teams were still giving him those open shots despite his percentage. He has a very slow release & the only time teams would even make an attempt to close out is when he was in the corners. And in those instances, Grant putting the ball on the floor was a disaster waiting to happen. He literally has one between the legs move that’s telegraphed to hell & usually ends in a wild shot. Sure he’s improved and is definitely a rotation player now, but he’s not a guy that should be starting & playing 30+ mpg either.

The biggest problem is roster construction. Think about it. Who’s the best shooter OKC has had since Harden? Martin for 1 year? Thabo in a contract year? They’ve continued to stockpile one-way players that are horrible offensively.

[karkinos]

presti just got 300 cents on the dollar for PG
not sure how you can fire the guy right now

[Klayforspicy]

This is one of the most stupidest threads I've ever seen. A guy demands a trade one year into his contract and Presti was being pressured with the shortest window ever to make a deal but still made out with a good pot.

[BallinBug]

presti just got 300 cents on the dollar for PG
not sure how you can fire the guy right now

300 cents on the dollar... Sure. Then why didn't Kawhi and the organization prefer to keep their 300% assets for themselves instead of dumping them on OKC?

Probably because PG is worth more than 2 rotation players and a bunch of unknowns.

[NuggetsWY]

He's done fairly well in the draft

I'd say the last time he really hit on his draft picks was 2013 with Adams and Roberson. Since then, this is his track record:

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yet the Thunder have been relevant and contenders for quite a few years.

They have because they lucked into the best draft core in NBA history. Sheer talent always got them where they were, not coaching or roster building.

Your first and last responses seem to contradict each other. Your soapbox is clear and we shall simply have to disagree and since I know less about the Thunder than you probably do, let's assume I am wrong and you are correct.

[Bolts]

Seattle SuperSonics - 1 NBA title
OKC Thunder - 0 NBA titles

Thank you Presti for hiring non-creative, mediocre, tread-mill type coaches that have sentenced your over talented teams to early outs. Now, you’ll have mediocre or young talent to go with that coaching. As a Seattle fan your future is everything i could have hoped for. May it never change.

[Pillendreher]

He's done fairly well in the draft

I'd say the last time he really hit on his draft picks was 2013 with Adams and Roberson. Since then, this is his track record:

<clip>

yet the Thunder have been relevant and contenders for quite a few years.

They have because they lucked into the best draft core in NBA history. Sheer talent always got them where they were, not coaching or roster building.

Your first and last responses seem to contradict each other.

How so? The 2013 draft was good to great. That doesn't mean that it wasn't the core that he drafted a decade ago carrying this team. Adams and Roberson are good roleplayers, but not real difference makers.

[Doctor MJ]

Seattle SuperSonics - 1 NBA title
OKC Thunder - 0 NBA titles

Thank you Presti for hiring non-creative, mediocre, tread-mill type coaches that have sentenced your over talented teams to early outs. Now, you’ll have mediocre or young talent to go with that coaching. As a Seattle fan your future is everything i could have hoped for. May it never change.

I still point out what the Florida Gators looked like with those back to back titles. Simply put, when Donovan had high BBIQ, tractable, team-oriented players, he made something beautiful out of it.

Not saying he’s a genius, just saying that Westbrook’s Thunder play dumber than what he’s been able to achieve with college kids, and so it makes little sense to act as if the coach is the real issue here.

Now the Brooks-era is different because that is where Westbrook had his bad habits enabled. He hadn’t played like that at UCLA where he played within coach Howland’s system and had caused Bill Simmons to call him the “take nothing off the table” guy because he did a lot of little valuable things without gumming up the works of the well-oiled machine in which others are well-utilized. OKC shifted Westbrook’s focus ended up making him the opposite of that. He doesn’t win the MVP without OKC doing this so reasonable to say it was the right move, but I don’t think it was and I blame Brooks and Presti both for this.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[nbafan38]

The truth is Westbrook and George was a treadmill team so given the circumstances this isn't a terrible trade. The issue is probably the fact that Presti did not put more around Westbrook and George but we also have to realize he is operating in a very difficult market to recruit players.

[CS707]

Presti has had

Durant- MVP
Westbrook- MVP
Harden- 6th man, under team control
Ibaka
Paul George- MVP candidate, DPOY candidate
Adams
Melo- set career high in 3s in OKC on limited touches
Roberson- All-NBA defense
Oladipo- Got better after leaving

Dude couldn’t make any combination of these players work but there’s a common denominator and it’s Westbrook controlling far too much of what happens on the court on both ends.

He pounds the rock on O, doesn’t let others rebound, shoots bad shots, gambles far too much defensively and gets into shootouts with dudes he can’t even come close to.

Presti’s biggest issue is his loyalty to Russ.

His loyalty to Russ is largely connected to Russ’s willingness to be there I’m guessing. It can’t be easy selling talent on that market and when you’ve got a superstar that’s willing to embrace it you take care of him.