JonFromVA wrote:michaelm wrote:JonFromVA wrote:
Not what I said... certainly LeBron has benefited from the refs at times - especially against second rate teams, but there have been many times that wasn't the case in big games against top opponents.
Michael, otoh, started getting the favor of the refs before the Bulls had ever won anything and it lasted all the way until the last shot of his Bulls' career.
There were some serious problems with the NBA refs ... not because Tim Donaghy said so, but indicated by how the NBA flushed out the old Philly boys club. Weight training was something just coming in to vogue during Michael's time. International players were just starting to influence the league in Michael's time. Expansion was occuring, etc, etc.
Which is not to take anything away from what Michael or even Bill Russell accomplished, but it's all part of why trying to compare players across generations is beyond stupid. Any sort of fair/unbiased comparison is simply impossible.
I was being sarcastic as I assume you realised, not positing that my contention was yours.
However weak the arguments with which you rightly take issue may be, trying to differentiate between 2 such superstars of the game on the basis of how favourably they were treated by officialdom is a weaker one.
I tend like many GSW fans btw to believe that favourable treatment by officialdom in the 2016 finals both in relation to Green’s suspension and how LeBron was refereed in the games subsequent to that helped LeBron and the Cavs win the title that year, but given I am sufficiently obsessed as a fan to post regularly on a forum such as this one, this may have similar substance to your argument in regard to how Jordan was refereed.
Fact is we both know how the refs choose to call the game has a major effect on the outcome and it's just another factor we struggle to deal with in the same era let alone across eras. Something tells me there will be more future fans who remember what James Harden got away with 30 years down the line ... but many will just hold up his numbers and say stuff like 36 ppg! 60 TS% 30.6 PER! Look at that peak!!!
I don’t like how Harden plays because he imo is to some extent trying to exploit grey areas in the rules of basketball rather than just play the game, particularly given his huge talent offensively in areas other than drawing fouls.
Superstars definitely get superstar calls, but are also the players everyone is trying to stop any way they can. Jordan and LeBron were pretty much both the darlings of the media and probably the NBA head office for much of their careers, and to differentiate their career achievements on the basis of one being refereed more favorably than the other over an entire career is drawing a long bow imo. It is the nature of fandom to believe that a team or player you emotionally invest in has been jobbed by officialdom when they lose, something I myself do of course, and referees can be biased or even crooked, but a career long conspiracy by officialdom in general which favoured Jordan over his entire career in contrast to LeBron’s career long treatment is rather pushing things as I have said and implied. More than a few non-LeBron fans believe he has gotten away with pushing players off with his forearm as a move on offense for his whole career.