Houston is flying

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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#101 » by Da ThRONe » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:57 am

I was thinking WTF that's a bad fit when Houston traded for CP3. And he's a way better fit with Harden and D'Antoni basketball and personality wise. Now they bring in Westbrook who in terms of overall talent is at best slightly better the Paul. The only benefit here is Russ isn't injury prone.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#102 » by Baski » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:59 am

Krazykiwi wrote:
Heat4lyf wrote:
Krazykiwi wrote:
All those high usage argument is just dumb. WAde and Lebron had similar highest usage too before they joined together . They will figure it out. If it was so obvious like some of you guys claimed here, would Houston give up essentially 4 unprotected first round picks for the swap ?
You always go for the better talents , fits and chemistry are just paper talks, let’s be honest , nobody knows **** for sure that this and that is bad fit until they play together.

Westbrook brings a completely new dimension to the Houston offense end. He’s not that slow ass CP3.


Wade and LeBron lmao

Two wings devestating defensively
High b-ball IQ and efficient and LeBron at his peak

Westbrook and harden make them look like low turnover players and have no offball game whatsoever

We really comparing and asking why Wade and LeBron worked as opposed to why Westbrook and harden won't


I’m not saying Westbrook and Harden are as good as the Lebron WAde combo. Again all those fits are just paper talks . My point is , Wade and Lebron were considered redundant, both were ultra high usage prior to teaming up . Both needed Ball in their hand and both couldn’t shoot that well. A lot of those can be related to Hardan/ Westbrook pairing . Bottom line is , Houston Has a moderate to higher chance of winning it all now with Westbrook than CP3. Westbrook has much higher ceiling potential to work on this team.

Harden and Westbrook are historically high usage players that don't warrant a comparison with Lebron and Wade. One thing Lebron and Wade had that Westbrook especially doesn't have is the self-awareness to know when you're shooting too much and when to share the ball. Lebron and Wade have both played on much worse teams than Westbrook and Harden ever have, and yet Westbrook has 4 seasons with USG% higher than Lebron's highest, Harden has 3 higher than Lebron's highest, Westbrook has 2 over Wade's highest, Harden 1 with the 2nd one being 36.1% to Wade's 36.2% (and that was with CP3). Most stars with high BBIQ seem to realize the value in checking yourself regardless of how green your light is. I think harden does to an extent but I'll be very surprised if Westbrook is able to scale back his game like Wade did
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#103 » by Knicks7Tape » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:08 am

When Harden and Russ both want the game winning shot.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#104 » by jg77 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:13 am

Soulcatcher33 wrote:
Krazykiwi wrote:Under the radar now. Cp3 was always hurt the last two years and the Rockets still remained as one of the top 2-3 teams without him, now they added Westbrook, he’s still an Uber talent just playing the game the wrong way. If Mike D Antonio can get Westbrook buyin to the system , defer to Harden a bit,and play game the right way, this Rockets team can very well win the whole thing next year .

Westbrook
Harden
Gordon
Tucker
Capela

Monster lineup, it gives Houston a different dimension on the offense end now that Westbrook can drive to the rim at will instead of a slow ass CP3.

Houston should be one of the best 3 teams in the west along with the two LA teams.


Yes, because all players change the way they have played their entire career when they are 32. Westbrook's insane athleticism and work ethic have allowed him be to be a star, but he is and will always be a dunce when it comes to having an actual BBIQ. That isn't going to change because he was traded to the Rockets. Age and injuries are now starting to shine a spotlight on this glaring flaw. There are few stars in NBA history that will age worse than he has. I just hope he keeps up the chucking as it happens because that will give us many hilarious moments if so.


Westbrook is 30 and will be 31 for majority of next season.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#105 » by mowcrowbar » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:17 am

Where are they flying to? Uranus?
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#106 » by iggymcfrack » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:40 am

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
With a team with a one or two year window that was already a fringe contender, you’re worried about the ceiling, not the floor. Yeah, maybe you can argue that Westbrook’s less likely to get injured and keep them from missing the playoffs, but his terrible fit with Harden also kills any chance they beat the Clippers, Lakers, Nuggets, or Warriors. Their title hopes just went up in a puff of smoke. And in 3 years when Paul’s contract is done, they get to pay Westbrook $47 million. What a bonus.


Westbrook does 2/3 of what the Rockets want to do well. He attacks the basket and he kicks out to open 3 point shooters. Russ with the ball in his hands with Gordon, Tucker, and Harden at the 3 point line is a good thing. As far as Harden goes, yes Russ won't be great for floor spacing but it will still be PJ and Gordon's man that has to help if Harden attacks the court on their side. Paul was rarely the guy Harden was passing to for an open look.


I think there's no way a team can allocate 10% usage to 13 guys while two players hold the ball 90% of the time without an actual riot in the locker room but we'll see.


Especially when one of those 2 guys is the most inefficient shooter on the team.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#107 » by Antinomy » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:47 am

clyde21 wrote:now it all makes sense.


Those were my sentiments as well.

Outstanding breakthrough.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#108 » by CAE15 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:04 am

No one wants to mention that 2 players that hold the 5 top spots of most turnovers in a season of ALL TIME are now going to be playing together?

Here's the thing; taking possessions away from Harden, who is a much more talented scorer than Westbrook is going to be playing right into the defenses hand. Teams are going to love possessions that Russ takes away from Harden. If he beats you, you live with it. However huge IF Russ can adjust the way he plays and act as more of a slasher and they stagger the two for 48, it could work on offense, though on defense it's going to be rough. Houston is going to effectively need to hide both their guards on defense most nights.

Let's not forget that Ricky Rubio outplayed Westbrook just 2 years ago. Paul will be missed in this offense and Westbrook is going to get more than his fare share of chances to beat you, let's see if he can do it.

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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#109 » by Zack M » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:48 am

They're gonna get 40ft's a game.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#110 » by Ben Simmons » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:54 am

If Westbrook halves his shot attempts, Houston would benefit greatly, because his penetration is a huge asset 8-)
The asset is ruined when he starts shooting.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#111 » by Krazykiwi » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:05 am

Ben Simmons wrote:If Westbrook halves his shot attempts, Houston would benefit greatly, because his penetration is a huge asset 8-)
The asset is ruined when he starts shooting.


Cp3 just taking up space for Harden to operate .his game is somewhat similar to Harden. Cp3 can’t drive anymore , Westbrook on the other hand is a beast at taking to the rim. Houston has a lot of shooters to feed off Westbrook. The biggest problem with Westbrook is he takes a lot of bad shots AKA 20 feet jumpshots . He just needs to cut down taking those type of shots and let the offense come to him instead of trying to force things . He and Harden can take turns running the team with Harden gets the Ball about 65% of the time , Westbrook 35%. If he can do that , Houston is gonna be lethal next year . I think they are right up there with both LA teams as the clear cut top 3. They are definitely flying under the radar now with two LA teams getting all the attention.

BTW, the Vegas odd of Rockets winning it all just went up dramatically after the trade .
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#112 » by Ben Simmons » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:08 am

Krazykiwi wrote:
Ben Simmons wrote:If Westbrook halves his shot attempts, Houston would benefit greatly, because his penetration is a huge asset 8-)
The asset is ruined when he starts shooting.


Cp3 just taking up space for Harden to operate .his game is somewhat similar to Harden. Cp3 can’t drive anymore , Westbrook on the other hand is a beast at taking to the rim. Houston has a lot of shooters to feed off Westbrook. The biggest problem with Westbrook is he takes a lot of bad shots AKA 20 feet jumpshots . He just needs to cut down taking those type of shots and let the offense come to him instead of trying to force things . He and Harden can take turns running the team with Harden gets the Ball about 65% of the time , Westbrook 35%. If he can do that , Houston is gonna be lethal next year . I think they are right up there with both LA teams as the clear cut top 3. They are definitely flying under the radar now with two LA teams getting all the attention.

BTW, the Vegas odd of Rockets winning it all just went up dramatically after the trade .

I agree, and Houston have plenty of playoff experience, a real shot at winning the West along with the Clippers.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#113 » by The_Hater » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:10 am

AJ_Joseph wrote:Westbrook and Harden are a bad fit.


People said the exact same thing about CP3 and Harden and yet they won 65 games and almost upset the Warriors.

I don’t think this team wins the title, but with the system MDA is playing, these two should actually be decent fit. Might even be able to avoid burning Harden out before the playoffs.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#114 » by bananazn » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:20 am

Cp3 is a better defender, shooter and can play offball it was always obvious he could play together with Harden.
The rockets were already an iso team , how replacing a high iq player with a low one will change anything?
And the cost was too high... you have to imagine that 24-26 window will be a time where the Rockets will be doing something like rebuilding as Harden and Westbrook are 35+ and off their current deals, so the picks will probably be pretty good.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#115 » by GM Wotsup » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:51 am

Re: Who would you rather build a contender around, Nash or Westbrook?
#50 » by GM Wotsup » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:53 am

I don't think you can build a contender around Russ. The West looks to me as remaining strong in the near future and this might be as high as Russ takes his OKC lot.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#116 » by dhsilv2 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:41 am

IAMZOOTED2 wrote:So... it didn't work with Melo or CP3. But we're supposed to believe Westbrook is the key that unlocks it all?

Sorry, not buying it.


The rockets were one of the best teams in NBA history the first year with CP3. It didn't just work, it was one of the best teams EVER.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#117 » by BallerTalk » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:04 pm

pr0wler wrote:
Spoiler:
DusterBuster wrote:
AJ_Joseph wrote:Westbrook and Harden are a bad fit.


Yeah, I'm sure some Rocket fans will try and convince me otherwise, but I'm gonna need to see it to believe that they can work together. Russ isn't going to have a team full of guys willing to tap rebounds to him all game long in Houston and he's not a good enough shooter to help spread the floor for Harden. This just feels like another classic "talent over fit" move by Morey that - so far - he's 0 for 2 on... guess we'll see if third times a charm.


Winners bias. What is your definition of success exactly? Beating the most talented team of all-time in the playoffs, that no one ever did (Warriors w/ KD)?

The Rockets went from 55 wins to 65 wins after the acquired CP3 in 2018, and were easily the 2nd best team in the West last season. And in 2018 playoffs if CP3 doesn't get injured, they probably go on to beat the Warriors and then suddenly the trade is amazing? Very results oriented. Either way, the Rockets only team that has ever given the full strength dynasty Warriors a legit run for their money. It didn't work out in a championship so I'm not saying that it was the greatest trade of the century necessarily, but saying that it's a strike out is a bit harsh.

I'm assuming the other attempt was referenced was Dwight Howard. They went from 45 wins to 54 wins after his acquisition. However, the real issue is that Dwight Howard kinda started sucking. So if anything it was decline in ability was a problem actually, not this supposed lack of fit.

Talent trumps all. The "fit" in Miami w/ the 3 superstars was not great either, but they were the most talented team in the league and won 2 championships as a result. People conveniently ignore players meshing with each other when the team is more talented than everyone else, but if you don't win a championship, then suddenly everyone tries to find things wrong and blame the "fit" or "system" when more often than not it's simply a lack of talent.


Determined detractors will always find something.
"Fit" seems to be the critique of convenience at the moment (as crazy as that seems considering they said the same thing about CP3).

Anyway, here's why I'm not particularly concerned about "fit" :

07/06/19
BallerTalk wrote: ... if a deal were to come about both Harden and Russ would probably have to conspire and demand it from their respective teams, much like PG and Kawhi just did. ...


07/11/19
Read on Twitter


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When they actively CHOOSE to join up, it generally seems to work out.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#118 » by NO-KG-AI » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:10 pm

People that thought Cp3 couldn't play off the ball just never watched him play.

Are people really arguing that Westbrook is going to suddenly become an elite off ball player? He can't shoot, he doesn't do anything away from the ball, he has poor shot selection. Not to mention his effort on defense is terrible.

"If he can just focus on taking better shots, and hitting 3's at a higher rate, and playing tough defense all the time..." So yea, if he can do a bunch of stuff that he's literally never been able to do over his first 11 seasons.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#119 » by IAMZOOTED2 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:20 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
IAMZOOTED2 wrote:So... it didn't work with Melo or CP3. But we're supposed to believe Westbrook is the key that unlocks it all?

Sorry, not buying it.


The rockets were one of the best teams in NBA history the first year with CP3. It didn't just work, it was one of the best teams EVER.



what do you reckon? In 20 years some hipster producer is gonna make a 30 for 30 about the team that coulda been, but never was? History books are full of those stories already.
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Re: Houston is flying 

Post#120 » by gmoney411 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:22 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:People that thought Cp3 couldn't play off the ball just never watched him play.

Are people really arguing that Westbrook is going to suddenly become an elite off ball player? He can't shoot, he doesn't do anything away from the ball, he has poor shot selection. Not to mention his effort on defense is terrible.

"If he can just focus on taking better shots, and hitting 3's at a higher rate, and playing tough defense all the time..." So yea, if he can do a bunch of stuff that he's literally never been able to do over his first 11 seasons.


All that isn't necessary. Russ just needs to buy into the system. No longer taking all the midrange jumpers he normally will takes will greatly improve his efficiency. You will have to live with him shooting 30% on 3-7 3s a game but it's not nearly that bad if there are no more midrange shots.

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