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Now that he isn't on the Raptors, people forgot about him. He's improved his rebounding and assists and he is still a top 20 player in the league.

He's not underrated he's just unable to play as well as he does during the regular season during the playoffs when the defense gets better. He's always been a good regular season player.

I actually think he's rated fairly now.

Saying he's a top 20 player is pushing it. I'd say 25-30 range

Problem is that he moved to the stacked Western Conference and is overshadowed by a lot of his players. He easily would have been an all-star last year in the East, but couldn't make it in the West.

Also doesn't help that the Spurs are not a contender anymore.

But yes, he is a very good player, one of the best mid-range shooters in the game, and has drastically improved as a facilitator. The problem is that he's an awful 3 point shooter, not great as an off-ball player, and a fairly weak defender.

Lowry also made DeRozan look a lot better by cleaning up a lot of his deficiencies on the defensive end.

I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Lowry led the raptors.

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Kyle Lowry was FAR and away the better player.

binjumper wrote:

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Lowry led the raptors.

He did as a point guard, the leading scorer was DeRozan.

He's definitely not a top 20 player.

cellphonecamera wrote:Now that he isn't on the Raptors, people forgot about him. He's improved his rebounding and assists and he is still a top 20 player in the league.

People forgot about him because he was overrated. When he isn't soaking up credit from his teammates from wins, it turns out he's a pretty great regular season guard whose limits hold him back from being a true impact guy in the playoffs.

skones wrote:

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Kyle Lowry was FAR and away the better player.

That's revisionist history. They were the same caliber of player, Lowry was fortunate that he got Kawhi Leonard, and that Siakam emerged as a borderline all star, so he was really a third option, and all he had to do was be a point guard.

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

They beat two teams that were probably as good as the Clippers this season, and that's being generous to PG. The East was a tire fire for a lot of those years.

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:

Gooner wrote:
He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Kyle Lowry was FAR and away the better player.

That's revisionist history. They were the same caliber of player, Lowry was fortunate that he got Kawhi Leonard, and that Siakam emerged as a borderline all star, so he was really a third option, and all he had to do was be a point guard.

This is nonsensical. DD soaked up the credit but Lowry was the better player. His only two weaknesses were his durability and (relatedly) his ability to handle high usage.

If DD had stayed, the Raptors lose in the 2nd round and it doesn't go 7 games.

Gooner wrote:He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

He didn't lead them anywhere, though. He was a part of their success but not nearly as much as he was/is given credit for. The team was routinely better with him on the bench than on the floor and things were always way more pronounced in the playoffs than the regular season. It's been Lowry and the Raptors' supporting cast guys who have largely been underrated while Derozan has been overrated. And yes, Kawhi is very, very, very good but the other guys are still being grossly underappreciated except for maybe Siakam. Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka, Powell, Van Vleet and even Danny Green (even though his shots didn't really fall ever) were all absolutely crucial defensive players who at worst forced opposing teams to stretch their defense to guard them allowing Kawhi to see significantly less defensive attention against some truly elite defensive teams along the way. And despite that, with Demar in Kawhi's place the Raptors would have struggled to put away Orlando in the first round and been out in 4 or 5 to the Sixers because the team would have given up a massive advantage to the other team every time Demar was on the floor and the Raptors would have been playing catch-up until they were finally eliminated. Wherever a person ranks Tobias Harris, Demar should be a bit ahead of him, but they're really close.

XxIronChainzxX wrote:

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:I don't even think he's a top 30 player. Dude might be top 40. Think stronger arguments can be made for top 50. He's just not a high impact player on either end of the floor. The San Antonio offense was better with him off the floor last season. The San Antonio defense was better with him off the floor last season. He ranked a stupid low 215th in RAPM last season.

He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

They beat two teams that were probably as good as the Clippers this season, and that's being generous to PG. The East was a tire fire for a lot of those years.

It was, but Raptors were consistently among the best teams in the east. I'm not saying DeRozan is elite, but let's not disrespect him now. It's easy to forget about him now that we witnessed Kawhi's greatness, but that's somehting you may never see again in Toronto.

Gooner wrote:

binjumper wrote:

Gooner wrote:
He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Lowry led the raptors.

He did as a point guard, the leading scorer was DeRozan.

Lowry was miles better than DD that year. He was better than DD at everything in 15/16.

DeRozan averaged 2 more points on worse efficiency in the regular season and 1 more point on much worse efficiency in the playoffs. Kyle destroys him everywhere else. Lowry also dropped an all-time bomb on Miami in game 7 to get them to the ECF (35/7/9/4 on only 20 shots) while DD was doing his best to chuck the Raps out of the playoffs with his 28 points on 29 shots performance.

Gooner wrote:
That's revisionist history. They were the same caliber of player, Lowry was fortunate that he got Kawhi Leonard, and that Siakam emerged as a borderline all star, so he was really a third option, and all he had to do was be a point guard.

It's not revisionist history, it's you not knowing what you're talking about. You literally cited PPGZZZZZ as your argument two posts prior. It's like saying Blake Griffin was a similar caliber player as Chris Paul because Blake Griffin scored more! He wasn't, because that's not how it works.

Derozan can go out and get you a bucket when you need one. That's his utility to the team, but on the whole, his numbers have consistently rung hollow throughout his career. Lowry has always been the engine that made Toronto go, and that remained true until the playoffs when Kawhi took over.

Gooner wrote:

skones wrote:

Gooner wrote:
He led the Raptors to conference finals, and he led them to best regular season record last season. He is top 20, just nowhere near someone like Kawhi.

Kyle Lowry was FAR and away the better player.

That's revisionist history. They were the same caliber of player, Lowry was fortunate that he got Kawhi Leonard, and that Siakam emerged as a borderline all star, so he was really a third option, and all he had to do was be a point guard.

Everyone who followed basketball closely always has said Lowry was the better player. There is reason the RAPM/RPM metrics have one of these guys as a top 15 player and the other outside the top 20. It isn't close on who was the better player on those teams.

DeRozan is not nor has he ever been a top 20 player and yes he did improve last year.