[SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not fun

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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#201 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:31 pm

Richfield wrote:JonFromVA providing textbook classic Cavs narrative. Gilbert and James ultimately are always the heros. All credit to them, no matter the circumstances.


Tons of credit to them (and everyone else including Griff), but if you think I've never been critical of James or Gilbert, you're not only wrong, but you haven't been following this thread very closely.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#202 » by Fable » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:31 pm

SlowPaced wrote:
Fable wrote:
NjtoBk201 wrote:toxic thread

"Toxic masculinity"? Men should cry and complain?


Isn't crying and complaining what you are doing right now? Stop reaching.

You're way too angry with your inane accusations. Where exactly I'm "crying and complaining"? You must kill "toxic masculinity" inside of yourself, dudebro. It's causing you to be aggressive and to lash out at innocent people. Men should be like Jonathan "Jessica" Yaniv.
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/the-truth-about-jessica-yaniv-is-beginning-to-emerge/

MrDollarBills wrote:
G35 wrote:
Fable wrote:"Toxic masculinity"? Men should cry and complain?



Men get mixed messages like a mofo.

If men cry about something like pressure from their job, society, relationships, men get little sympathy from men or women. You will be seen as soft and "not fit for that life".

However, "toxic masculinity", aggression, alpha mentality is getting browbeaten out of men from progressive media and other progressive men who try to shame those men's actions.

Young males are getting mixed messages and that's too bad.....


People are trying to get men to pull away from the "toxic masculinity, aggression, alpha mentality" stuff because it's causing men harm internally mental health wise and on an outward level it's getting people, especially women, killed.

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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#203 » by teke184 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:37 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
teke184 wrote:
zshawn10 wrote:holy crap this thread blew up

Read on Twitter
?s=21


I’m curious as to the “context” myself.

Because I can sure see how trying to build a title team centered on a guy perpetually on one season deals would be stressful as hell and make it near-impossible to do any form of long term strategizing.


What long-term strategizing did he have to do? They had two all-stars through their primes to surround LBJ with and had just won a title. ffs, LeBron made 4 straight finals in Cleveland, why is Griffin complaining about sustainability? He was wrong. It was sustainable. That's about as good a run as you can get.


For one, same crap that Cleveland had to deal with in their FIRST LeBron run... few want to commit to there if they don’t know LeBron is staying for the length of their contract. As mentioned upthread, this helped take them out of the Paul George trade sweepstakes.


For another, part of the deal of having a superstar on the roster is a plan of what to do if they leave, which is mainly timing contracts and cap hits so that you aren’t stuck with up to 4 years of crap and repeater tax after they go.

You know, exactly what the Cavs are suffering through right now as they finish up deals for guys like JR Smith (cut) and Tristan Thompson (expiring) who were supporting pieces next to LeBron but are crap without him.

Most teams extending guys of questionable quality will try to have them expire at the same time as their star so that they aren’t left with expensive useless parts when the star leaves.


In short, the GM job with LeBron is high stress, to where getting anything other than a title is a disappointment, while at the same time the sword of Damocles is hanging over your head and you may have to spend 4 years in purgatory getting rid of all the guys you had brought in to support him if he decides to walk in that particular offseason.

The people talking up Cleveland under LeBron are focusing on the highs while he was there, not the issues with achieving those highs or the inevitable crash that happens when he takes his talents to South Beach or LA.

LeBron may be gone but the team and the GM are still there and are having to pick up the pieces afterward. And even before then, people can see the oncoming train but know they can do little to avoid it.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#204 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:43 pm

Richfield wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
JellosJigglin wrote:
Lakers would've made that trade with or without Lebron imo. There wasn't a surefire franchise player in their young core, Ingram is due to get paid soon, and they've always been about adding stars. Having Lebron locked in under contract just made it a no-brainer.

But to your other point, Lebron did take Cleveland hostage with those short-term deals. I don't fault him for that. I've always said players have the option to take short deals if they want to retain power over their mobility. There's a risk to the player that goes along with that, mostly injuries. It was a gamble but it paid off for him. I can understand how that put a lot of pressure on the FO, which was probably his intention.

Some GM's just aren't made for being under the pressure of putting out a championship team every year. Even Jerry West said that he couldn't watch Laker games at Staples Center during the Kobe/Shaq era. He said it was too much pressure and he'd just drive around L.A. listening to Chick Hearn on the radio. Some guys are architects and enjoy the building process more than actually winning titles. I think Griffin falls under this category. That's why he was attracted to the NO job.

I can see how some lose their joy of the game under the pressure to win every year. Different strokes for different folks.


Yes, absolutely the pressure to win was very high, but the front office didn't completely buckle to it. It would surely look different if if Andrew Wiggins and/or Anthony Bennett had turned in to superstars, but as it is ... the Cavs clearly got the better of the Kevin Love trade. Thompson and Smith got paid thanks to LeBron, but Smith is (mostly) gone and Thompson's deal is up soon. We traded a protected pick for Kyle Korver that should be resolved soon as well.

Long-term damage was managed, and it was managed directly by Gilbert who kept asking LeBron if he'd commit before trading away something that would potentially damage the team long-term.

So, on the surface the pressure is the same pressure to build a champion that every GM should be feeling. Every GM faces decisions where they have to weight short-term benefits .vs. long-term.

Where was the pressure coming from in Cleveland?

Was Gilbert calling Griffin hourly demanding to know why he hadn't made a deal? Was the media hounding Griff? Was Rich Paul constantly in his ear asking to get player's traded or else James would walk?

If so ... news to me.

Cleveland is not NYC.


Another perfect example, all credit goes to LeBron.

They got paid because they were worth that to a team that wanted to win a Championship using their services.

You think Cavs win the finals without JR and Thompson on the team? Did you have some other place in mind to put that money that would have yielded a Championship for that Cavs team?

It's like a bunch of LeBron Zombies. Nobody can get credit for anything. LeBron gets credit for anything and everything. Even the contracts of his valuable teammates. Unbelievable.


GG ... apparently you misread that remark too. It's not about where else the Cavs could have spent the money, it's about the fact there was no competition for their services. If they were signed to a more team friendly deal, maybe their contracts could had been moved as part of a deal that would have helped the team. Maybe we could have spent that money on other players.

Remember, when we let Delly and Mozgov walk? Apparently, they lacked LeBron's blessing, so no over-pay to keep them.

The difference is other teams actually wanted them.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#205 » by zimpy27 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 5:54 pm

Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#206 » by G35 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:15 pm

Slava wrote:Looks like Griffin wants credit for winning a championship and feels like he's but getting it because of LeBron. This is the same situation Ty Lue is in but he's not daft enough to come out and say it.

Anyways, Griffin is riding high.



I will say the reason why many people low-key like Trump is because he will come out and say what a lot of people are thinking.

He is not PC.

Same thing that happened with Mario Lopez, who is now getting criticized for apologizing for expressing his opinion.

Stop apologizing for your opinion. They will not respect you for apologizing, they actually will despise you for not sticking by your words. I don't know what happened to the NBA but its trending in the same direction. The only one's I know who are not overly PC are Barkley and Stephen Jackson.....
I'm so tired of the typical......
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#207 » by The Hypnotoad » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:41 pm

KyRo23 wrote:
Drygon wrote:Seems like LeBron fanboys are being upset about David Griffin's statement lol.

He's just conforming publicly what everyone else already knew.

Confirming what? That when LeBron wins he gets all the credit and when he loses it's everyone elses fault?

First off, that is such a myth it's not even funny lol. When the Cavs won in 2016, plenty of people wanted Kyrie to win FMVP even after LeBron lead both teams in every major stat category. I still see stuff til this day of how Ray Allen saved LeBron's career, how Kyrie saved LeBron's career. How every time LeBron has lost in the finals in the worst thing imaginable to LeBron's legacy. That myth has got to stop because it really is inaccurate.

Also, if LeBron got all of the credit because of the Cavs winning, how does Griffin get a great job offer? Seems like he got a good amount of credit for the Cavs success... no?

Another thing... Welcome to the world of sports when superstars get credit for winning rings lol. Last time I checked, MJ gets a whole lot of credit for going 6/6. This guy comes off as a baby.


I’m also sick of people saying this as well, especially on the Ringer. In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Lebron won 3 titles as finals MVP. He has earned the right to not be considered the weak link on a team.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#208 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:42 pm

teke184 wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
teke184 wrote:
I’m curious as to the “context” myself.

Because I can sure see how trying to build a title team centered on a guy perpetually on one season deals would be stressful as hell and make it near-impossible to do any form of long term strategizing.


What long-term strategizing did he have to do? They had two all-stars through their primes to surround LBJ with and had just won a title. ffs, LeBron made 4 straight finals in Cleveland, why is Griffin complaining about sustainability? He was wrong. It was sustainable. That's about as good a run as you can get.


For one, same crap that Cleveland had to deal with in their FIRST LeBron run... few want to commit to there if they don’t know LeBron is staying for the length of their contract. As mentioned upthread, this helped take them out of the Paul George trade sweepstakes.


For another, part of the deal of having a superstar on the roster is a plan of what to do if they leave, which is mainly timing contracts and cap hits so that you aren’t stuck with up to 4 years of crap and repeater tax after they go.

You know, exactly what the Cavs are suffering through right now as they finish up deals for guys like JR Smith (cut) and Tristan Thompson (expiring) who were supporting pieces next to LeBron but are crap without him.

Most teams extending guys of questionable quality will try to have them expire at the same time as their star so that they aren’t left with expensive useless parts when the star leaves.


In short, the GM job with LeBron is high stress, to where getting anything other than a title is a disappointment, while at the same time the sword of Damocles is hanging over your head and you may have to spend 4 years in purgatory getting rid of all the guys you had brought in to support him if he decides to walk in that particular offseason.

The people talking up Cleveland under LeBron are focusing on the highs while he was there, not the issues with achieving those highs or the inevitable crash that happens when he takes his talents to South Beach or LA.

LeBron may be gone but the team and the GM are still there and are having to pick up the pieces afterward. And even before then, people can see the oncoming train but know they can do little to avoid it.


Good post, but I'll repeat again that the Cavs managed the post-LeBron damage pretty well. The books would have been pretty clean after just 1 season if Gilbert wasn't buying picks, and after next season, they'll probably just owe a couple of 2nd rounders to the Hawks.

The pressure to make win now moves was high, but that doesn't mean it was impossible to bring in and develop younger players. Those were choices they made or didn't make as the case may be.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#209 » by JonFromVA » Fri Aug 2, 2019 6:57 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.


Yeah, part of the problem with the Cavs had been talent evaluation, but they did alright with the late picks; but yeah they didn't develop them and didn't keep them.

Small correction ... Waiters was traded for a first round pick that went to Denver with another pick to acquire Mozgov. They were then able to absorb Shumpert and Smith. The Knicks were desperate to dump Smith, so they included Shumpert whom the Cavs wanted; unfortunately he continued to be plagued with injuries.

That trade was credited for turning around the Cavs season, but the benefit turned out to be pretty short-term - with the throw-away piece ending up as the most valuable.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#210 » by zimpy27 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 7:19 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.


Yeah, part of the problem with the Cavs had been talent evaluation, but they did alright with the late picks; but yeah they didn't develop them and didn't keep them.

Small correction ... Waiters was traded for a first round pick that went to Denver with another pick to acquire Mozgov. They were then able to absorb Shumpert and Smith. The Knicks were desperate to dump Smith, so they included Shumpert whom the Cavs wanted; unfortunately he continued to be plagued with injuries.

That trade was credited for turning around the Cavs season, but the benefit turned out to be pretty short-term - with the throw-away piece ending up as the most valuable.


Oh ok, well I guess the point is that Griff didn't exactly have a stellar GM career for youth outside of trading for vets. Which he complains he had to do because of LeBron.

He seems to be shooting himself in the foot here.

As you say, he even targeted Shumpert and JR just fell in his lap.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#211 » by ATLTimekeeper » Fri Aug 2, 2019 7:43 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.


The hardest part of any GM's job is to get star players to begin with. LeBron brought himself to Cleveland. Griffin did **** all to make that happen. And then LeBron goes out and recruits Kevin Love. All Griffin had to do was hand over the first overall pick (which they were lucky to win). Has any first time GM ever had an easier first season than landing the greatest player of several generations and the first overall pick from, iirc, the 9th slot? He was gift-wrapped a contender. All he had to do was make a few win-now deals to nudge them over the finish line. He wasn't even around for Kevin Durant landing in Golden State. I think there was decidedly more pressure for the guy that followed him.

I find Griffin's position more and more ridiculous the longer I think about it.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#212 » by kg01 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 7:56 pm

Why's Melo considered selfish for wanting to win his way (By scoring 30) but nobody's the calling Griffin selfish for wanting to win "his way"?

So much so that he was upset when they did win.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#214 » by Brandon_Roy » Fri Aug 2, 2019 8:31 pm

Drygon wrote:

Sounds coerced. Damn near walked back everything he said to the point of self loathing lol
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#215 » by Richfield » Fri Aug 2, 2019 9:12 pm

This feels like a kid who got in trouble for saying things and now has to lie about what he really meant when he said the things.

Or a famous citizen that lives under a dictator with media control and no freedom of speech and now needs to go back on the air to "clarify" what they were really saying about the dictator. Whitewashing what he said.

Sad.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#216 » by 6ixSideSniper » Fri Aug 2, 2019 9:52 pm

Griffin has been really weird since he took over the Pelicans.

He comes across as a complete cuck in this.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#217 » by Dupp » Fri Aug 2, 2019 10:22 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.



Also got a first in that waiters desk which was one of the two first traded for moz and those moves turned the cavs season around.

Grid did well in all his trades. Difficult circumstances but I think he did a good job.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#218 » by Dupp » Fri Aug 2, 2019 10:24 pm

Richfield wrote:JonFromVA providing textbook classic Cavs narrative. Gilbert and James ultimately are always the heros. All credit to them, no matter the circumstances.



Lol at Gilbert being the hero. That’s a new one.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#219 » by Coachcavplaya23 » Fri Aug 2, 2019 10:35 pm

Richfield wrote:As a lifelong Cavs fan, a few takeaways and things that resonate.

"LeBron gets all of the credit and none of the blame" - very true in Cleveland. It's sick. And not fun for anybody else. Imagine everything YOU do being credited to LeBron James, even if you were doing it before you joined that team. "Has LeBron been like a father figure to you????" type of nonsense. Ugh. When Cavs win, it's all LeBron. When Cavs lose, it's LeBron doesn't have any help. No accountability for anything LeBron does there. That's why I respect how the Heat handled LeBron so much, even though they lost him. They got him to grow up a little and his prime year or two was then in Miami before he took his ball and went home.

"Unsustainable" . This is exactly my problem with the Cavs approach at that time. Instead of trying to build a dynasty or a team that could keep winning, it was "one championship is the only goal" type thinking. Not a marker of a great franchise imo. Everybody seemed to have to sacrifice except for LeBron. It was what can we give LeBron to make this possible once, not what can we ask LeBron to do to make this a sustainable winning formula on a yearly basis.

LeBron's lack of hunger to win more than one in Cleveland. Exactly. And this is another reason he'll never compare to MJ. It was more transactional. I made this promise by mistake, and my legend status can only be satisfied by backing it up. After that, I'm done. Yeah he re-signed and everything, but the hunger to win wasn't the focus anymore. It was more blame games and taking half seasons off (not building necessary chemistry to win another), and when faced with adversity like JR's time and score mistake, pouting and blaming instead of focusing on the last 5 minutes with the score tied 0-0. It was about outside perception, not goals.

I believe Gilbert was that force that made things unbearable for Griffin. He didn't exactly say it in the article, but adding everything up and knowing what I've seen over the years, it sounds like Griffin couldn't handle the type of pressure Gilbert was putting on him, and that Griffin didn't respect Gilbert's approach either. (Gilbert loyalists of RealGM (I have one particular in mind) will surely respond and "correct" me on this, but don't listen to them). I think of Gilbert as the coddler in chief to LeBron, and much of the unsustainability and dysfunctionality that did take place was in part because of Gilbert's approach.

LeBron spent I think 11 years in Cleveland. 1 Championship is good. But if he's as great as he's supposed to be, you'd think maybe a dynasty with LeBron, or more than 1, or at least some type of sustainable system of success before and after LeBron could have been established. Maybe my expectations are too high. Lots of Clevelanders are happy with the 1 ring even with the fact that the approach basically gutted the team for years to come.

Hopefully the story's not over and Gilbert can find a way to now deliver on the promises HE made in comic sans, of what he thought the Cavs could do without LeBron.


Buddy, Grffin made the choice to overpay Smith, Shump and TT. Griffin made the choice to replace Blatt with that piss poor coach in Lue. Griffin allowed the locker room to blow up in the last two years of his reign. Griffin can and try to blame Gilbert. However, he was the GM of the team and made the decisions so the blame falls on him for fostering the spineless atomsphere to catering to Lebron's every wish.

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