[SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not fun

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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#221 » by GrindCityHustle » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:05 am

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Here's a snapshot of Griffins youth transactions with the Cavs:

Selected Wiggins with 1st pick, traded him for Love
Traded for Dwight Powell and let him go for nothing
Signed Joe Harris and let him go for nothing
Selected Tyus Jones and traded him for Cedi Osman
Traded Waiters for JR and Shumpert

Honestly, the moves that traded youth for vets were his best.


The hardest part of any GM's job is to get star players to begin with. LeBron brought himself to Cleveland. Griffin did **** all to make that happen. And then LeBron goes out and recruits Kevin Love. All Griffin had to do was hand over the first overall pick (which they were lucky to win). Has any first time GM ever had an easier first season than landing the greatest player of several generations and the first overall pick from, iirc, the 9th slot? He was gift-wrapped a contender. All he had to do was make a few win-now deals to nudge them over the finish line. He wasn't even around for Kevin Durant landing in Golden State. I think there was decidedly more pressure for the guy that followed him.

I find Griffin's position more and more ridiculous the longer I think about it.


I think low-key Griffin didn't really like working for Dan Gilbert and it got put on Lebron for ESPN "Hot Takes" to create some controversy.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#222 » by John Murdoch » Sat Aug 3, 2019 12:15 am

His qoutes werent outlandish really, just odd timing and motive here is questionable. Maybe he really was a Kyrie guy all along
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#223 » by Middle Child » Sat Aug 3, 2019 11:20 am

When LeBron is on your team you’re kinda forced to do things a certain way.

It’s why LeBron got away from Pat Riley and never considered playing for Pop.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#224 » by Lalouie » Sat Aug 3, 2019 3:53 pm

and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#225 » by nbhadja » Sat Aug 3, 2019 4:25 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Perry Mason wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
People are trying to get men to pull away from the "toxic masculinity, aggression, alpha mentality" stuff because it's causing men harm internally mental health wise and on an outward level it's getting people, especially women, killed.


You must have missed that Gillette just took an $8 billion write-down on its value.


You must have missed all of the mass shootings that took place over the last 3 months in the United States.


Mass shootings are a tiny tiny % of the homicides each year in this country. They get the most media attention while the overwhelming majority of homicides and resulting deaths are sadly ignored by the mainstream media because it doesn't fit their racial narrative. It's the equivalent of going all out on focusing on deaths from lightning strikes while ignoring deaths from heart disease.

Also linking mass shootings to "toxic masculinity" is flat out inaccurate. Society is no longer sexist today and even if you pretend that we are still in the 60s and we live in a racist/sexist society you cannot deny that this country was a lot more sexist in the 80s, 70s, 60s and before...and tell me how many mass shootings were there in the 80s and earlier? Mass shootings were extremely rare until the late 90s compared to now and the ones that did occur were much less deadly (and gun laws were much more lenient back then). In the past you could order an assault weapon from a magazine and have it mailed to your house, yet why where there much fewer mass shootings?

This part is also ignored by the media because it does not please big pharma...most of these shooters are on psych drugs like anti-depressants. Use of such drugs was much rarer in the past.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#226 » by nbhadja » Sat Aug 3, 2019 4:43 pm

trueballer7 wrote:Single most manufactured career in pro sports history, worldwide. They were forcing, in a literal sense, everybody to assist Lebron to win a title. The physical, mental, psychological effects being visible and still apparent to all included (Lue had to be hospitalized, Love was suffering from breakdowns and depression, Griffin stopped watching basketball altogether, Irving was willing to throw away a whole year of his career to free himself). Can you fathom that?
And all he got, was a single title where a number of the most improbable events all coincided at once and even then it was by the thinnest of margins.
They were manhandling the league, forming super teams and torturing players, coaches and GMs to get provide him the easiest possible way to multiple championships, and he couldnt deliver.


While the manner in which Lebron's teams were manufactured and artificial, Lebron had to carry the highest load to win his 3 rings of any player in NBA history outside of a few exceptions. The intent was to make it as easy as possible for Lebron yes, but the result from it was far from it. The teams that Lebron built were big on big names, but totally overrated and not the correct way to build a team. It is why Lebron had to go super sayain to win his 3 titles. For one you had players that did not fit well. Wade's lack of shooting didn't fit well with Lebron, KI was ball dominant while also did not fit well with Lebron. Love and KI were terrible defenders and Bosh was not a rim protector or good rebounder. he did provide midrange, but not 3 point spacing. If you are going to use your cap room on 3 max players they better fit well, have complementary skills, and all 3 better be at least solid defenders. Big 3s are overrated and show how the law of diminishing returns is very real. A big 2 with a complete roster is a far superior method.

For one Kevin Love is/was totally overrated and not worthy of a big 3 title. Lebron in 2016 had to beat a 73-9 team and led all players from both teams in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. He is the only player in history to do that in a playoff series and he did it in the finals against a 73 win team. He also had the anchor the defense as KI and KL suck on defense. Idk why anyone can sit there and claim he had it easy. If not for the injuries in 2015 and the fluke addition of Durant to the Warriors to Cavs would have won 1-2 more rings.

Then on Miami he had to anchor the offense and defense as well especially since they had no rim protector. Bosh was pretty average in both title playoff runs and was horrific in the 2013 NBA finals...average in the 2012 finals. Wade declined and was a good, but not great player that put up.

There was a reason when Lebron went to the bench the Cavs and Heat would get outscored. Lebron should have won DPOY in 2012 and or 2013.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#227 » by PCProductions » Sat Aug 3, 2019 6:59 pm

I'm surprised at how much flak Griffin is getting here. We are all aware of what Lebron brings to an organization, good and bad. I'm pretty sympathetic to Griffin here; it must have been really stressful working in that environment.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#228 » by Pharmcat » Sat Aug 3, 2019 7:00 pm

Griffin is a liar...he was negotiating contract but Gilbert didn't give him the number he wanted.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#229 » by SeniorWalker » Sat Aug 3, 2019 9:10 pm

It's pretty incredible that Griffin isnt even allowed to be honest before nearly the entire media conglomerate does a full on assault in defense of LeBron. It should be no surprise, as Lebron seems to have legions of crazy people everywhere who cannot tolerate even the most minuscule amounts of criticism in his general direction.

Almost everyone in the media was essentially asking for Griffin to apologize despite him just being completely transparent about his time in Cleveland. He had nothing to gain whatsoever from doing so, he just gave a rare insider's perspective of a key point in NBA history....and it was something that is sort of an open secret to begin with. And ultimately he caved and backpedaled his statement, though it is pretty obvious what he meant. He can try to take it back now but what he initially said and the "clarified" apology he gave had two different meanings.

Why should he apologize? LeBron is one of the greats but he put an incredible amount of pressure on Cleveland to do everything he asked and not for a long term sustainable cause. That is the antithesis of good GMing. One always has to think of the future while building within the present and not trade away all of one's available assets when your star player clearly is not committed to the future. And the usual, when everything goes right its because of LeBron; when everything goes wrong it is because of everyone else.

It is a little bothersome that few people take the time to think about how someone in a well regarded position like Griffin is afraid to be honest, and caved under media pressure because it doesnt fit the narrative on their most prized corporate asset in Mr. LeBron James, the money maker for all involved parties. I'm a little disgusted but can't say I'm shocked either. A lot of people out here, there, and everywhere, are frankly, mindless dimwits who will believe anything that coats their fantastical brains with a heavy dose of fairy tale sparkle.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#230 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Aug 3, 2019 10:37 pm

Honestly, s very stupid and unnesseary comment from a guy who is constantly in the media.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#231 » by KrAzY3 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 2:58 am

Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.

That's the key here.

You can rightfully be bothered by some of the things Griffin said or did, but still get the point.

In fairly short order, he has to get rid of his #1 pick (who turned out to be fool's gold but it had to still feel bad at the time), and his coach. From then on out, is he really the GM? People joke about LeGM, but even if LeBron wasn't that assertive, Griffin had his hands tied

Now, would he have won a title without LeBron? Probably not. Would he have put the #1 pick, cap space and other assets to good use? It would have been hard not to. So, I get it, past a certain point where you are doing what the Lakers did, and you're just burning through assets and selling out to win now, that isn't necessarily fun or what someone wants to do.

Having said that, c'mon, don't be such a crybaby about it.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#232 » by Lalouie » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:44 am

KrAzY3 wrote:
Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.

That's the key here.

You can rightfully be bothered by some of the things Griffin said or did, but still get the point.

In fairly short order, he has to get rid of his #1 pick (who turned out to be fool's gold but it had to still feel bad at the time), and his coach. From then on out, is he really the GM? People joke about LeGM, but even if LeBron wasn't that assertive, Griffin had his hands tied

Now, would he have won a title without LeBron? Probably not. Would he have put the #1 pick, cap space and other assets to good use? It would have been hard not to. So, I get it, past a certain point where you are doing what the Lakers did, and you're just burning through assets and selling out to win now, that isn't necessarily fun or what someone wants to do.

Having said that, c'mon, don't be such a crybaby about it.



here's what i think griffin was talking about -

i think gm's AND owners desire to build and be creative. it is, afterall THEIR team with movable pieces. i think GOOD gm's/owners especially do. i don't think, in general, they like to scramble in order to pander. scrambling is one thing, say paul george being pilfered...and i'll bet presti is enjoying the process of rebooting okc from the ground up again.

i don't think the orgs like pandering, as in pandering to a player like lebron who distorts the whole scene. lebron forces teams to literally redo everything, from making moves to replacing coaches and systems to rebuilding to rethinking. so yeah, every gm other than pelinka sleeps at night. and pelinka,,,he's just a rookie who doesn't know what it's like to be a real gm, so he don't count.

but what griffin said is just a gm's perspective of lebron to kd's perspective as a player, so it's not like this is all new and unexpected
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#233 » by trueballer7 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:01 am

nbhadja wrote:
trueballer7 wrote:Single most manufactured career in pro sports history, worldwide. They were forcing, in a literal sense, everybody to assist Lebron to win a title. The physical, mental, psychological effects being visible and still apparent to all included (Lue had to be hospitalized, Love was suffering from breakdowns and depression, Griffin stopped watching basketball altogether, Irving was willing to throw away a whole year of his career to free himself). Can you fathom that?
And all he got, was a single title where a number of the most improbable events all coincided at once and even then it was by the thinnest of margins.
They were manhandling the league, forming super teams and torturing players, coaches and GMs to get provide him the easiest possible way to multiple championships, and he couldnt deliver.


While the manner in which Lebron's teams were manufactured and artificial, Lebron had to carry the highest load to win his 3 rings of any player in NBA history outside of a few exceptions. The intent was to make it as easy as possible for Lebron yes, but the result from it was far from it. The teams that Lebron built were big on big names, but totally overrated and not the correct way to build a team. It is why Lebron had to go super sayain to win his 3 titles. For one you had players that did not fit well. Wade's lack of shooting didn't fit well with Lebron, KI was ball dominant while also did not fit well with Lebron. Love and KI were terrible defenders and Bosh was not a rim protector or good rebounder. he did provide midrange, but not 3 point spacing. If you are going to use your cap room on 3 max players they better fit well, have complementary skills, and all 3 better be at least solid defenders. Big 3s are overrated and show how the law of diminishing returns is very real. A big 2 with a complete roster is a far superior method.

For one Kevin Love is/was totally overrated and not worthy of a big 3 title. Lebron in 2016 had to beat a 73-9 team and led all players from both teams in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals. He is the only player in history to do that in a playoff series and he did it in the finals against a 73 win team. He also had the anchor the defense as KI and KL suck on defense. Idk why anyone can sit there and claim he had it easy. If not for the injuries in 2015 and the fluke addition of Durant to the Warriors to Cavs would have won 1-2 more rings.

Then on Miami he had to anchor the offense and defense as well especially since they had no rim protector. Bosh was pretty average in both title playoff runs and was horrific in the 2013 NBA finals...average in the 2012 finals. Wade declined and was a good, but not great player that put up.

There was a reason when Lebron went to the bench the Cavs and Heat would get outscored. Lebron should have won DPOY in 2012 and or 2013.

I dont recall anything particularly supersaiyan about him in his 3 titles. In fact he performed on average worse to much worse than his regular seasons. And some of those performances, especially his 2013 vs the Spurs, would be more properly ranked in the Krillin level. The Spurs employed a "you're a bum off the street" defensive strategy, single man Splitter staying 7 ft from him, daring him to shoot and for 4/7 games (god damn 4 out of 7) he did look like a bum off the street. It was Miami being the single super team at the league in the time, that saved him from another humiliation.
And in 2016, his match up was dead man bricking Harrison Barnes. In game 7, they put him on Draymond Green, and Draymond Green of all people, almost proceeded to single handedily beat the Cavs, with Tyrone Lue straight up challenging duper sayian Lebron to play some defense in half time.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#234 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Aug 4, 2019 10:24 am

nbhadja wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Perry Mason wrote:
You must have missed that Gillette just took an $8 billion write-down on its value.


You must have missed all of the mass shootings that took place over the last 3 months in the United States.


Mass shootings are a tiny tiny % of the homicides each year in this country. They get the most media attention while the overwhelming majority of homicides and resulting deaths are sadly ignored by the mainstream media because it doesn't fit their racial narrative. It's the equivalent of going all out on focusing on deaths from lightning strikes while ignoring deaths from heart disease.

Also linking mass shootings to "toxic masculinity" is flat out inaccurate. Society is no longer sexist today and even if you pretend that we are still in the 60s and we live in a racist/sexist society you cannot deny that this country was a lot more sexist in the 80s, 70s, 60s and before...and tell me how many mass shootings were there in the 80s and earlier? Mass shootings were extremely rare until the late 90s compared to now and the ones that did occur were much less deadly (and gun laws were much more lenient back then). In the past you could order an assault weapon from a magazine and have it mailed to your house, yet why where there much fewer mass shootings?

This part is also ignored by the media because it does not please big pharma...most of these shooters are on psych drugs like anti-depressants. Use of such drugs was much rarer in the past.


The 249th mass shooting of 2019 in the US occurred yesterday in El Paso, Texas, a few hrs after you posted this wall of nonsense.

We haven't even reached the 249th day of the year.

Also, mass shootings rose astronomically in the United States (by over 200+%) once George W. Bush and the GOP let the assault weapons ban end.

Society is still sexist and racist. Just because you don't personally deal with it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

But anyway sure, carry on as if there isn't a link between "toxic masculinity" and the MRA/Red Pill/incel culture which is a breeding ground for white supremacist terrorists, and whatever else you believe in your insulated fantasy world. If sticking your head in the sand is how you get through the day, by all means.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#235 » by XxIronChainzxX » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:44 pm

KrAzY3 wrote:
Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.

That's the key here.

You can rightfully be bothered by some of the things Griffin said or did, but still get the point.

In fairly short order, he has to get rid of his #1 pick (who turned out to be fool's gold but it had to still feel bad at the time), and his coach. From then on out, is he really the GM? People joke about LeGM, but even if LeBron wasn't that assertive, Griffin had his hands tied

Now, would he have won a title without LeBron? Probably not. Would he have put the #1 pick, cap space and other assets to good use? It would have been hard not to. So, I get it, past a certain point where you are doing what the Lakers did, and you're just burning through assets and selling out to win now, that isn't necessarily fun or what someone wants to do.

Having said that, c'mon, don't be such a crybaby about it.


His coach was nuts. I'm one of the people who thinks LeBron pushed Blatt out but I honestly don't blame him after things like that fighter pilot nonsense.

A basic fact of life is that your role doesn't always go the way you want. It would be one thing if Griffin worked with huge jerks who mistreat him. It's quite another if he's just mopey because he didn't get to do things his way.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#236 » by KrAzY3 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:51 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Bunch of political crap

Dude, stop trying to blame obvious mental illness on other things.

You can try to make it partisan, but guess what? Mental illness isn't a white thing, it isn't a left or a right thing, that's why there are crazy people that do crazy things in all walks of life. Why do people overlook the obvious and craft these elaborate excuses when the answer is right there staring us in the face? Mass murderers are sadistic, barbaric, evil people. It doesn't matter what their religion is, what their political affiliation is, what their race is, or what the gender is. That's not what makes them want to kill innocent people.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#237 » by infinite11285 » Sun Aug 4, 2019 1:55 pm

Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.


Define “organic”.
Kalela wrote:Tim Duncan. Good but not great. All the titles he had won at San Antone make people think he is as good as someone like Olujuwon who was a special player.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#238 » by ChettheJet » Sun Aug 4, 2019 2:01 pm

Griffin was in the same boat as Jerry Krause in Chicago. Building a team to help the superstar win a championship.

Krause had his problems in the post Jordan era but before when he inherited Michael when he came in as GM he drafted well and learned how to find players that didn't have to be the best individually that he could get but they suited the situation of playing alongside Jordan. Krause learned that even ex Pistons like James Edwards and John Salley were good to have, Ron Harper was slowed by time and surgeries and wasn't a PG but he was the right guy. Luc Longley and Bill Wennington weren't that versatile, Craig Hodges didn't have the defense for heavy minutes, Dennis Hopson didn't live up to his potential, Bobby Hansen wasn't going to play big minutes anywhere, Jud Buechler was nothing special. But they were brought in and filled the roles that were needed. Even Steve Kerr.

I think that's something Griffin struggled with because Lebron had guys he wanted but could not have known that they weren't the guys he needed. You see Griffin in his new situation making far different moves with a rebuilding team rather than a piecing together roster.
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#239 » by Lalouie » Sun Aug 4, 2019 3:35 pm

infinite11285 wrote:
Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.


Define “organic”.


evolving naturally in a structured, planned, anticipated, and expected way.
imo, the PUREST example of an organic structure would be to build through drafts and CALCULATED trades.
the opposite of organic would be chaos, the anomalous introduction of elements that force a deviation in behavior and normalcy.

like, in food harvesting, organic would be growing food naturally and the opposite would be to introduce an anomalous element - pesticides that change the core of the product AND the rethinking of the way of growing of such foods.

i do not know if that's a correct definition but it's correct to me when citing a distortion in sports. since sports is fluid there can never be true organic structure but the spurs come pretty close. even with the departure of kawhi and the forcing of the spurs hand, the org still retained it's structure when dealing with upsetting elements. there was no change in the org. the org remained consistent - no coaching change, no upsetting drama. when aldridge had a problem, the situation was dealt with "the spurs way". they tried to deal with kawhi the spurs way but kawhi inc had made up it's mind and through it all the spurs way remained intact and continues to deal with things from within.

in the case of griff, since it's about him, he was put in a situation he felt it was out of his hands. and gm's all want to feel in control. griff clearly felt encumbered or maybe his hands were tied.

you know the history of lebron through miami then cavs then lakers. it doesn't take a genius insight to see it. miami was fortunate to have a stronger-headed individual than lebron in the form of one pat riley
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Re: [SI]David Griffin on 3-year stint with Cavs: “Everything we did was so inorganic and unsustainable and, frankly, not 

Post#240 » by Fable » Sun Aug 4, 2019 4:50 pm

Lalouie wrote:
infinite11285 wrote:
Lalouie wrote:and there's certainly nothing "organic" about what the lakers are doing now either.


Define “organic”.


evolving naturally in a structured, planned, anticipated, and expected way.
imo, the PUREST example of an organic structure would be to build through drafts and CALCULATED trades.
the opposite of organic would be chaos, the anomalous introduction of elements that force a deviation in behavior and normalcy.

like, in food harvesting, organic would be growing food naturally and the opposite would be to introduce an anomalous element - pesticides that change the core of the product AND the rethinking of the way of growing of such foods.

i do not know if that's a correct definition but it's correct to me when citing a distortion in sports. since sports is fluid there can never be true organic structure but the spurs come pretty close. even with the departure of kawhi and the forcing of the spurs hand, the org still retained it's structure when dealing with upsetting elements. there was no change in the org. the org remained consistent - no coaching change, no upsetting drama. when aldridge had a problem, the situation was dealt with "the spurs way". they tried to deal with kawhi the spurs way but kawhi inc had made up it's mind and through it all the spurs way remained intact and continues to deal with things from within.

in the case of griff, since it's about him, he was put in a situation he felt it was out of his hands. and gm's all want to feel in control. griff clearly felt encumbered or maybe his hands were tied.

you know the history of lebron through miami then cavs then lakers. it doesn't take a genius insight to see it. miami was fortunate to have a stronger-headed individual than lebron in the form of one pat riley

Agreed. The Lakers are famous for doing things in an organic way, developing young players, they're not associated with trading draft picks, not associated with making blockbuster trades. I mean what franchise, I forgot it's name, traded 4 draft picks for 38-year-old Steve Nash?

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