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Pelly24 wrote:

SuperPawgHunter wrote:You guys are acting like brokenhearted schoolgirls over Kyrie.

No other player in the NBA averaged 23ppg, 6ast, and 40% from three. None.

It's amazing how the Boston situation is all his doing, but he posted career highs in assist an rebounds, and shot very efficiently AGAIN, but his young teammates failed to live up to expectations.

I watched that situation closely and I'll stand by my belief that his younger teammates were acting like selfish ****, and the longer it persisted the worse he handled it. Now, that doesn't excuse him handling poorly, but that doesn't excuse them for being emo as hell because they didn't get the opportunities they thought they'd get, either. People will want to say Kyrie was the selfish one, but show me a metric that proves he was selfish. His usage was normal for a All-Star and his FGA was almost identical to the Warriors top three guys, which showed that, there were more than enough shots to go around in Boston, if three guys on GS can put up All-Star numbers with similar FGA to Kyrie. People want to mix his flat-earth comments in with what happened in Boston. Those flat-earth comments didn't stop him from being an All-NBA player. That's just silly.

Like I've said before, there was no talk of him being a poor leader in 2017-18, and that INTERESTINGLY enough coincides with the time period that predates the post-season success they had.

They wanted to come back and be those same stars and there were too many mouths to feed.

I think a big part of it is people overrate the Boston players like Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum

iggymcfrack wrote:

SuperPawgHunter wrote:You guys are acting like brokenhearted schoolgirls over Kyrie.

No other player in the NBA averaged 23ppg, 6ast, and 40% from three. None.

It's amazing how the Boston situation is all his doing, but he posted career highs in assist an rebounds, and shot very efficiently AGAIN, but his young teammates failed to live up to expectations.

I watched that situation closely and I'll stand by my belief that his younger teammates were acting like selfish ****, and the longer it persisted the worse he handled it. Now, that doesn't excuse him handling poorly, but that doesn't excuse them for being emo as hell because they didn't get the opportunities they thought they'd get, either. People will want to say Kyrie was the selfish one, but show me a metric that proves he was selfish. His usage was normal for a All-Star and his FGA was almost identical to the Warriors top three guys, which showed that, there were more than enough shots to go around in Boston, if three guys on GS can put up All-Star numbers with similar FGA to Kyrie. People want to mix his flat-earth comments in with what happened in Boston. Those flat-earth comments didn't stop him from being an All-NBA player. That's just silly.

Like I've said before, there was no talk of him being a poor leader in 2017-18, and that INTERESTINGLY enough coincides with the time period that predates the post-season success they had.

They wanted to come back and be those same stars and there were too many mouths to feed.

Draymond Green has been as impactful in the playoffs as Steph Curry and Kevin Durant over 5 consecutive finals runs. He’s the best #2 guy possible next to a star. Before KD came to town, the Dray without Steph lineups still outperformed the Steph without Dray lineups in the playoffs.

Kyrie meanwhile, couldn’t lead the Celtics as well as Terry Rozier or Marcus Smart. He even managed to get Rozier paid mad money because he looked good in comparison to Kyrie even though he’s actually kind of a scrub.

So basically, as a #1 Kyrie: suuuuuuucks
As a #1 Draymond: ??????

As a #2, Kyrie: pretty good if he’s next to LeBron
As a #2, Draymond, best in the league, arguably best in league history

SuperPawgHunter wrote:

Pelly24 wrote:

SuperPawgHunter wrote:You guys are acting like brokenhearted schoolgirls over Kyrie.

No other player in the NBA averaged 23ppg, 6ast, and 40% from three. None.

It's amazing how the Boston situation is all his doing, but he posted career highs in assist an rebounds, and shot very efficiently AGAIN, but his young teammates failed to live up to expectations.

I watched that situation closely and I'll stand by my belief that his younger teammates were acting like selfish ****, and the longer it persisted the worse he handled it. Now, that doesn't excuse him handling poorly, but that doesn't excuse them for being emo as hell because they didn't get the opportunities they thought they'd get, either. People will want to say Kyrie was the selfish one, but show me a metric that proves he was selfish. His usage was normal for a All-Star and his FGA was almost identical to the Warriors top three guys, which showed that, there were more than enough shots to go around in Boston, if three guys on GS can put up All-Star numbers with similar FGA to Kyrie. People want to mix his flat-earth comments in with what happened in Boston. Those flat-earth comments didn't stop him from being an All-NBA player. That's just silly.

Like I've said before, there was no talk of him being a poor leader in 2017-18, and that INTERESTINGLY enough coincides with the time period that predates the post-season success they had.

They wanted to come back and be those same stars and there were too many mouths to feed.

I think a big part of it is people overrate the Boston players like Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum

I don't know if they're overrated.

I watched those kids A LOT, and they can play. I think they simply didn't like the situation they were in last year.

Outside of Kyrie getting a lot of shots., Marcus Morris never saw a shot he didn't like, and he was on the floor a lot. Al Horford isn't a chucker, but I recall thinking to myself that if you want your assist, it was best to pass him the ball, 'cause once he got it, he was putting that sucker up. Gordon was taking minutes from more deserving guys. That's four guys who were getting up SHOTS...

...and I haven't even factored in Smart - who put up a good no. of FGA - Tatum, Brown and Rozier. It was A LOT, man.

iggymcfrack wrote:

Gooner wrote:

iggymcfrack wrote:
The one game where Klay didn’t play, Draymond had 17 points on .555 TS%. He wasn’t the problem with the offense. How about Cousins and Livingston shooting a combined 2/11? Or the bench going 10/27?

I remember him scoring two threes at the end when the game was basically decided, he was 0-4 before that. Go look at play by play if you don't believe me. He was largely unimpactful on offense and Warriors lost comfortably. He only had 4 assists aswell, beacuse he missed Klay's shooting presence. He needs a lot of talent around him to do what he does best, which is a definition of a role player.

Dray made the second of those threes with 5:30 left. It wasn’t exactly garbage time. Besides, Draymond has generally performed very well when given a larger role on offense. When Curry missed 4 straight games in the 2016 playoffs before KD was on the team, Draymond stepped up running the offense and didn’t miss a beat. He averaged 23/11/9 on .603 TS% and the Warriors won by an average of 11 PPG. Calling him a “role player” is ridiculous. He can do more things on a basketball court than almost anyone in the league. He just plays team ball and focuses on whichever skills his team needs most in the moment instead of playing for numbers and expecting the team to adjust to him.

Pelly24 wrote:

iggymcfrack wrote:

Gooner wrote:
I remember him scoring two threes at the end when the game was basically decided, he was 0-4 before that. Go look at play by play if you don't believe me. He was largely unimpactful on offense and Warriors lost comfortably. He only had 4 assists aswell, beacuse he missed Klay's shooting presence. He needs a lot of talent around him to do what he does best, which is a definition of a role player.

Dray made the second of those threes with 5:30 left. It wasn’t exactly garbage time. Besides, Draymond has generally performed very well when given a larger role on offense. When Curry missed 4 straight games in the 2016 playoffs before KD was on the team, Draymond stepped up running the offense and didn’t miss a beat. He averaged 23/11/9 on .603 TS% and the Warriors won by an average of 11 PPG. Calling him a “role player” is ridiculous. He can do more things on a basketball court than almost anyone in the league. He just plays team ball and focuses on whichever skills his team needs most in the moment instead of playing for numbers and expecting the team to adjust to him.

I think he's a great player, but we'll see how things change this year. If he can play All-NBA 2nd Team level (at least) defense and get 16/7/5 then I'll understand it.

SuperPawgHunter wrote:
Al Horford isn't a chucker, but I recall thinking to myself that if you want your assist, it was best to pass him the ball, 'cause once he got it, he was putting that sucker up.

LoveMyRaps wrote:Siakam > Green, Simmons, Mitchell

Roddy B for 3 wrote:I voted Luka, but since Kyrie vs Draymond is the argument I'm going to say:

If I had the 15th best starter at SG, SF, and C with the 40th best player at backup c, PF, SF, SG, and PG. And you gurantees me that once I picked between Draymond and Kyrie I'd get the 15th best starter at whichever one I didn't choose position, I would pick Draymond.

I say this in theroy. In practice Kyrie might fit better but, I expect PG to be more loaded than PF which gives PF an edge when comparing players.

+ I think Draymond makes teams better and Kyrie has a lot of "empty" stats. (The locker room stuff is the big difference.

Draymond>>Kyrie in defense ='s Kyrie >> Draymond on offense, more or less.

Draymond offense > Kyrie defense.

I would probably still take Kyrie because offense > defense, but locker room Draymond >> Kyrie.

Filthadelphia wrote:Your favorite offseason debate is back by popular demand!
Thanks to everyone who voted last go around Im excited to see where the 2nd annual edition ends up.

Here's the Rules:
-Vote ONE player per poll. You'll be able to change your vote just like last year for those indecisive folks.
-The criteria of ranking the players is YOUR OWN. The whole point of bringing this to the GB is to attract the widest amount of votes/perspectives on the game as possible to form a true consensus. Some people value shooting over defense, team success over indivdual prowess etc. I want to bake all that in to this poll set no matter how chaotic.
-Each poll a player will win and then be taken out of the field. There will be 25 polls in all.
-There are only 10 possible poll options so I will start with the 10 guys who I personally believe will round out the top 10 in most people's eyes.
-As each poll commences I ask you to COMMENT IN THE THREAD your vote for who should be added in the next poll. There will be a large list of players yet to be added to the field below that you can look over to make your vote. I will tally up the votes in the comments at the end of each poll and add the winner accordingly. For example, if you want Marc Gasol added in the next poll just comment "Marc Gasol" or "Gasol".
-If a poll is overwhelmingly skewed towards one guy I will try, time willing, to edit it early and move on to the next one.
-If there is a tie in the poll. There will be a run-off poll created with just the tying parties to determine a winner. The losers of the runoff will then be added back into the field of 10 for the next poll.
-Feel free to ask any questions via pm or comment
-Feel Free to comment on your reasoning for a pick and why

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE FOR PARTICIPATING!!!!