Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?

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Current PG Ranking

Number 1
5
2%
Top 3
6
3%
Top 5
46
20%
Top 10
105
45%
Top 15
29
13%
Top 20
15
6%
Top 30
25
11%
 
Total votes: 231

XxIronChainzxX
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#161 » by XxIronChainzxX » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:05 pm

The_Hater wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Buzzard wrote:I like him for where he is now in his career. I would give him a top ten but top five all time from the active point guards is really close. I don't think he is outside the top 6 or 7. Secondly, I would not trade any of the young upcoming point guards for him now. Example, I will keep Trae Young for the next ten years vs Lowry for the next two to four easily.


Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.


Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.


Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

That's IMO just a bit better than Billups, who's a bubble guy for the HOF himself.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#162 » by Buzzard » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:09 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.


Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.


Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

Doing if, and, this, or else will make you crazy. If things are not looking great by the trade deadline, send him to a contender. If he wins a 2nd Championship with another team, his chances of the HOF will increase exponentially.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#163 » by XxIronChainzxX » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:11 pm

Buzzard wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.


Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

Doing if, and, this, or else will make you crazy. If things are not looking great by the trade deadline, send him to a contender. If he wins a 2nd Championship with another team, his chances of the HOF will increase exponentially.


I'm not a fan of blowing it up - and that isn't even how the Raptors won this title. I think Masai keeps a lookout for improving the team subject to what Kyle wants. If the Raptors are on pace for 50 wins everyone stays.

That said I'm not saying this as a hypothetical - I think KL has achived everything I say in my post but isn't getting the credit for it.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#164 » by The_Hater » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:14 pm

XxIronChainzxX wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
XxIronChainzxX wrote:
Yeah, but that's because you'd have to be insane to take Lowry for the future. He's 33 turning 34. He'll be lucky to be a rotation player in 4 years, and I think he'd be an HOF guard if DeRozan didn't steal all his deserved credit.


Lowry will likely be retired in 4 years.

I’m not sure Derozan stole that much credit from Lowry, I think the biggest factor working against him is that he was in the league 7-8 years before becoming a true starter and all-star. For years he looked like nothing more than a role player. There are very few NBA careers if any with a similar career arc.


Lowry deserved to be all-NBA 2nd or 3rd team since 2014. That would be a 5 year run of all NBA teams, being the best player on multiple 50-win teams and a 59-win team, and being the 2nd best player on a title team, and is the (at this point) greatest player in a franchise's history. He'd have an ECF berth as the best player, and another ECF and title as the arguable #2. With no other really deserving all NBA teammate. That 5 year peak - with an Olympic gold medal - is IMO a bubble hall of fame career.

That's IMO just a bit better than Billups, who's a bubble guy for the HOF himself.


I don’t disagree with any of this, but if he had played at a higher level earlier in his career so that he had a longer peak I think his respect with average fans and his HOF resume would be much higher as well. Probably a no-brainer.

As a Raptor fan, we traded what became the 12th pick in the draft for Lowry and I remember being livid about the deal because he was a fringe starter and the Raps were rebuilding.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#165 » by Prokorov » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:15 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Lowry's playoff on/off in TOR:
2014: +10.4
2015: +15.4
2016: +24.8
2017: +8.9
2018: +2.4
2019: +11.9

He did that despite playing the bulk of his minutes with DD, who put up the following:
2014: -6.6
2015: -7.9
2016: -4.8
2017: -13.1
2018: -19.9
2019 (SAS): -25.8

The data is really straight forward if you know where to look. Lowry was never the problem.


we have already gone over time and time gain why context-less on/off is completely useless


It's not useless at all, and to suggest that it is implies you don't have a solid grasp of the stat. The "context" comes from a basic understanding of the roster, which I assume all of us posting on an NBA message board have.


kind of like how you said RHJ and Napier where key contributors last year because of their on/off and will be missed despite neihter being part of the rotation and only playing scrub/garbage time and having 0 positive impact?
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#166 » by GeorgeMarcus » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:16 pm

Prokorov wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
we have already gone over time and time gain why context-less on/off is completely useless


It's not useless at all, and to suggest that it is implies you don't have a solid grasp of the stat. The "context" comes from a basic understanding of the roster, which I assume all of us posting on an NBA message board have.


kind of like how you said RHJ and Napier where key contributors last year because of their on/off and will be missed despite neihter being part of the rotation and only playing scrub/garbage time and having 0 positive impact?


I never said RHJ/Napier were key contributors :lol: Go 'head, the advanced post search is your friend. That was an argument put in my mouth by those unwilling to accept reality.

And for the record, posting an entire team's on/off with a minutes qualifier *is* context.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#167 » by Rockice_24 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:28 pm

The_Hater wrote:
Rockice_24 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
What an absolutely terrible post.

Calvin Murphy, KC Jones and Bill Bradley are in the HOF among others, take 5 minutes and go look at the career stats and accolades for each of those players.



HAHAHAHA

Please stop comparing guys who played in 1932 to guys playing now. Equally terrible analogy.

Calvin Murphy was a fringe HOF player but was still an efficient scorer for the 80's and Bill Bradley should never have made the Hall equally as bad that he is in if Lowery should go in. Perfect comparison there.

Thanks for proving my point. Lowery is on the same level as undeserving HOF players.

14ppg on 42% shooting career averages in a scoring era. Hard pass.

Again scrappy player did the little things but you don't make the hall taking charges.


You completely missed the point. Well done.

Not to mention that a minimal research would have told you that the 1960’s and 1970’s were a much higher scoring era that than the 2010’s. So spewing incorrect facts to form a poor opinion doesn’t make you the winner of this debate.


Then you did a terrible job explaining it. You said look at the career stats of unworthy HOF players to make your point and please don't point to all star games as a reason why he deserves to make it.

How about you use a relevant/recent example to try and make your point that way we won't have to discuss an era of basketball that likely none of us were alive to watch.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#168 » by Rastas » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:14 am

Somewhere between 40 and 50 for this coming season as a player.
Lower if including his contract .

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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#169 » by hot_sauce_and1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:32 am

Current pg ranking? I'd easliy put Kyle Lowry in the top 10. There's an argument to be made that hes top 5 today if we are arguing current pgs in todays league. Me, possibly with a biased opinion being a hornets fan, I would put Kemba Walker ahead of him, among current pgs. Kemba doesn't have a ring like Kyle does, but I just think Kemba has so much talent. So does Kyle tho. Current pgs? Id say Kyle is definitely in the top 10.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry? 

Post#170 » by rapscity » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:21 pm

Put some respek on the champs name. Theres only a couple pgs better than lowry in this league.

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