Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?

[pr0wler]

i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him

Winners bias.

Was Derek Fisher better than CP3 and Westbrook too because he happened to be on a roster of a championship team? Take Kyle's exact same performance in the finals, but pretend that KD was actually playing and the Warriors win the series 4-2. So in one scenario, the Lowry is hailed as a "championship calibre point guard" and in the other he's just regular Kyle Lowry...despite the fact that the factors under his control (his play on the court) are exactly the same. There are lots of variables to evaluate a player, and one of the least objective ones is cherry picking individual seasons of teams they happened to be on.

[Hroz]

I think

Curry Lillard Irving Westbrook are better than him. (As the rank of players thread has proven)
And Walker I believe is better than him.

So I wouldn't say top 5
Simmons
Russell
Conley
Holiday
Are on the same tier

Fox
Murray
Could get better next year while nobody expects Lowry to.

I don't know whethwr Chris Paul is good this year either or he's done?
Also is Lou Williams a PG or SG?

[basketballRob]

i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him

Adam Morrison got two championships but probably not better than Reggie Miller.

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[iggymcfrack]

i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him

Winners bias.

Was Derek Fisher better than CP3 and Westbrook too because he happened to be on a roster of a championship team? Take Kyle's exact same performance in the finals, but pretend that KD was actually playing and the Warriors win the series 4-2. So in one scenario, the Lowry is hailed as a "championship calibre point guard" and in the other he's just regular Kyle Lowry...despite the fact that the factors under his control (his play on the court) are exactly the same. There are lots of variables to evaluate a player, and one of the least objective ones is cherry picking individual seasons of teams they happened to be on.

I was just about to give you and And-1 until that sentence. If Durant plays the whole series, the Raptors win 4-3 after Lowry drops 30/5/12 in Game 7 on 6/9 from three. He wasn’t letting the Raptors lose that series no matter what.

[iggymcfrack]

You know I only have Lowry #4 among PGs because at his age, it’s hard to maintain peak level for a long period of time, but if it’s just which point guard I’d want for one game, say Game 7 of the NBA Finals, he might be #1.

Lillard fell apart the last couple games against Denver and got bailed out by McCollum. Paul couldn’t finish the job with Houston either of the last 2 years. And Curry’s been terrible in all the biggest Finals games. Everyone knew he wasn’t going to miss that shot at the end of Game 6 because he always does.

Meanwhile Lowry’s been an absolute assassin since the Cleveland series last year. His clutch shooting is out of this world and he’s already fantastic in every other phase of the game.

[SlovenianDragon]

This is a good question actually because in the grand scheme of things he's nothing special. Doesn't do anything exceptionally well but kinda has that all around game. Hes above average but not great... Any team would like a guy like him on their roster starting at PG. So really IDK...At least for me its hard to rank the guy. He's for sure up there though.

[Roddy]

Tim Hardaway 2.0.

[GusT15]

Spoiler:

All time
Magic Johnson
Steph Curry
Isiah Thomas
Oscar Robertson
John Stocton
Walt Frazier
Jason Kidd
Steve Nash
Chris Paul
Gary Payton
Tony Parker
Chaunsey Billups
Nate Archibald
Russell Westbrook
Lenny Wilkens
Dennis Johnson
Kyrie Irving
Tim Hardaway
Kyle Lowry
Dame Lillard
Penny Hardaway
Kevin Johnson
Steve Francis
Baron Davis
...

So he's Top20 after the ring,but if for example Lillard gets a ring he goes way up,or even if he has 3 more years at All-NBA level he goes past Lowry for me-even with no rings.
(Although i'm sure i'm forgetting 5-10 point guards,especially from the older days,so i'll say Top30 All Time to be safe).

Current
Steph Curry
Dame Lillard
Kyrie Irving
Russell Westbrook
Kemba Walker
Jamal Murray
Ben Simmons
Chris Paul
De'Aaron Fox
Trae Young
Mike Conley Jr
Eric Bledsoe
Kyle Lowry
Lonzo Ball
Ricky Rubio
DeJounte Murray
...

And the reason why he's out of the my top10 is cause he's 33 years old.I'm expecting a quick decline at this point.
He would be even lower if i could rank D'Angelo Russell and Jrue Holiday as Point Guards,but they'll be starting SGs this season so i can't do that.

Rose and are you counting AI as a SG?

I have Rose at that range as well of top30,and,yes,obviously i don't have Iverson as a Point Guard-He didn't think of himself as a PG either

[youngcrev]

He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.

Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.

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Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.

It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.

Is Marc Gasol now a lock for the hall too because of that ring? 1 DPOY, 2 All NBA teams, 4 time all star...

[The_Hater]

Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.

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Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.

It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...

Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.

[youngcrev]

Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.

It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...

Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.

Pascal was killing the Sixers before they adjusted and put Embiid on him. Kyle doesn't really have an exploitable weakness that will kill you, but he doesn't exactly cook other teams either. Lowry didn't do much in that series. It was 100% Kawhi going into Terminator mode. Gasol had a bigger impact on that series than Lowry did.

[Waylanderz]

Fringe top 15. So based on the poll, top 20.

Looks like based on the poll he is top 10.

[yellowknifer]

I'm not a big fan of guards that can't create off the dribble and aren't dynamite from 3. Plus he doesn't have the quickest release. Top 30 for me, probably in the 22-23 range

You should watch players play before having an opinion homie.

[xBulletproof]

His career isn't over yet. He's already a Hall of Famer.

He's not exactly a young pup out there. And he's far from a lock for the hall.

He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.

Took me like all of 1 second, Tim Hardaway. 5 time All NBA player.

[Triple7]

1. Curry
2. Lillard
3. Kyrie
4. Walker
5. Westbrook
6. Lowry

1-5 are better than lowry last season.

[jehosafats]

The point is that Lowry is a borderline candidate if none of these guys have been voted in.

Tim Hardaway - 5x all-star, 5x all- NBA
Chris Webber - 5x all-star, 5x all- NBA, ROY, franchise cornerstone for title contender
Shawn Kemp - 6x all-star, 3x all-nba, top 2 player on Finals team
Marques Johnson - 5x all-star, 3x all-nba

And Lowry's championship with Kawhi over the injury riddled Warriors shouldn't give him any edge over Webber ( went to game 7 vs Shaq & Kobe in WCF) and Kemp (pushed Jordan's Bulls to 6, arguably Sonics best player in Finals).

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I'm still not over it either

[udfa]

I knew Lowry was underrated but I had no idea by how much. Besides having been an all-star the past five years, Lowry has been in the top-6 among PGs in RPM each of the past 6 seasons and has posted double digit WS in 4 of those 6 seasons...yet so many believe strongly that he doesn't belong in the top-10?

[The_Hater]

It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...

Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.

Pascal was killing the Sixers before they adjusted and put Embiid on him. Kyle doesn't really have an exploitable weakness that will kill you, but he doesn't exactly cook other teams either. Lowry didn't do much in that series. It was 100% Kawhi going into Terminator mode. Gasol had a bigger impact on that series than Lowry did.

Right. And then Embiid took siakam right out of the series the final 5 games. Are we just supposed to ignore that happened? Just look at Siakam’s stats in both of those series I mentioned and they were not very good but he was excellent against the Magic and Warriors. Overall, his playoff stats weren’t nearly as good as his regular season numbers.

Anyways, we’re talking about 4 rounds of playoffs and Lowry was easily the Raps 2nd best player both statistically and visually. You seem focused on 1 series against your Sixers. Siakam disappeared for long stretches and let’s not pretend Gasol was a better playoff performer than either of them for it’s entirety.

[GusT15]

I knew Lowry was underrated but I had no idea by how much. Besides having been an all-star the past five years, Lowry has been in the top-6 among PGs in RPM each of the past 6 seasons and has posted double digit WS in 4 of those 6 seasons...yet so many believe strongly that he doesn't belong in the top-10?

According to the current poll

46% has him 6-10
28% has him 11-30
26% has him 1-5

I mean,it's a pretty fair voting sample,the "overrating him" posters are the same as the "underrating him" posters.
Why are you singling one group out?

[sixerswillrule]

He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.

Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.

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And none of them have a Ring so I guess that could put Lowry over

Rasheed?

Lowry might make it. It's not a lock though.