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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 am
by pr0wler
Roco14 wrote:i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him
Winners bias.
Was Derek Fisher better than CP3 and Westbrook too because he happened to be on a roster of a championship team? Take Kyle's exact same performance in the finals, but pretend that KD was actually playing and the Warriors win the series 4-2. So in one scenario, the Lowry is hailed as a "championship calibre point guard" and in the other he's just regular Kyle Lowry...despite the fact that the factors under his control (his play on the court) are exactly the same. There are lots of variables to evaluate a player, and one of the least objective ones is cherry picking individual seasons of
teams they happened to be on.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:25 am
by Hroz
I think
Curry Lillard Irving Westbrook are better than him. (As the rank of players thread has proven)
And Walker I believe is better than him.
So I wouldn't say top 5
Simmons
Russell
Conley
Holiday
Are on the same tier
Fox
Murray
Could get better next year while nobody expects Lowry to.
I don't know whethwr Chris Paul is good this year either or he's done?
Also is Lou Williams a PG or SG?
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:55 am
by basketballRob
Roco14 wrote:i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him
Adam Morrison got two championships but probably not better than Reggie Miller.
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Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:15 am
by iggymcfrack
pr0wler wrote:Roco14 wrote:i don't know where I'd rank him but all i know is that he's a championship calibre PG which can't yet be said about CP3, westbrook, and many others who are normally seen as better than him
Winners bias.
Was Derek Fisher better than CP3 and Westbrook too because he happened to be on a roster of a championship team?
Take Kyle's exact same performance in the finals, but pretend that KD was actually playing and the Warriors win the series 4-2. So in one scenario, the Lowry is hailed as a "championship calibre point guard" and in the other he's just regular Kyle Lowry...despite the fact that the factors under his control (his play on the court) are exactly the same. There are lots of variables to evaluate a player, and one of the least objective ones is cherry picking individual seasons of
teams they happened to be on.
I was just about to give you and And-1 until that sentence. If Durant plays the whole series, the Raptors win 4-3 after Lowry drops 30/5/12 in Game 7 on 6/9 from three. He wasn’t letting the Raptors lose that series no matter what.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:26 am
by iggymcfrack
You know I only have Lowry #4 among PGs because at his age, it’s hard to maintain peak level for a long period of time, but if it’s just which point guard I’d want for one game, say Game 7 of the NBA Finals, he might be #1.
Lillard fell apart the last couple games against Denver and got bailed out by McCollum. Paul couldn’t finish the job with Houston either of the last 2 years. And Curry’s been terrible in all the biggest Finals games. Everyone knew he wasn’t going to miss that shot at the end of Game 6 because he always does.
Meanwhile Lowry’s been an absolute assassin since the Cleveland series last year. His clutch shooting is out of this world and he’s already fantastic in every other phase of the game.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:31 am
by SlovenianDragon
This is a good question actually because in the grand scheme of things he's nothing special. Doesn't do anything exceptionally well but kinda has that all around game. Hes above average but not great... Any team would like a guy like him on their roster starting at PG. So really IDK...At least for me its hard to rank the guy. He's for sure up there though.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:23 am
by Roddy
Tim Hardaway 2.0.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:35 am
by GusT15
TheNewEra wrote:Rose and are you counting AI as a SG?
I have Rose at that range as well of top30,and,yes,obviously i don't have Iverson as a Point Guard-He didn't think of himself as a PG either
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:08 pm
by youngcrev
Metallikid wrote:SactoKingsFan wrote:Metallikid wrote:
He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.
Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.
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Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.
It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
Is Marc Gasol now a lock for the hall too because of that ring? 1 DPOY, 2 All NBA teams, 4 time all star...
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:28 pm
by The_Hater
youngcrev wrote:Metallikid wrote:SactoKingsFan wrote:Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.
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Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.
It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...
Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:42 pm
by youngcrev
The_Hater wrote:youngcrev wrote:Metallikid wrote:
Like the other guy said, none of those guys won a ring, let alone won it as the #2. The end of Shawn Kemp's career was tarnished by his bad conditioning. Webber had too many injuries. Tim Hardaway is borderline, and you could certainly argue that if Mitch Ritchmond gets in then why not Tim? Marques Johnson is too long ago to have any idea of.
It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...
Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.
Pascal was killing the Sixers before they adjusted and put Embiid on him. Kyle doesn't really have an exploitable weakness that will kill you, but he doesn't exactly cook other teams either. Lowry didn't do much in that series. It was 100% Kawhi going into Terminator mode. Gasol had a bigger impact on that series than Lowry did.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:52 pm
by Waylanderz
GeorgeMarcus wrote:Fringe top 15. So based on the poll, top 20.
Looks like based on the poll he is top 10.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:58 pm
by yellowknifer
Cal And Jay wrote:I'm not a big fan of guards that can't create off the dribble and aren't dynamite from 3. Plus he doesn't have the quickest release. Top 30 for me, probably in the 22-23 range
You should watch players play before having an opinion homie.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:06 pm
by xBulletproof
Metallikid wrote:youngcrev wrote:Metallikid wrote:
His career isn't over yet. He's already a Hall of Famer.
He's not exactly a young pup out there. And he's far from a lock for the hall.
He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.
Took me like all of 1 second, Tim Hardaway. 5 time All NBA player.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:16 pm
by Triple7
1. Curry
2. Lillard
3. Kyrie
4. Walker
5. Westbrook
6. Lowry
1-5 are better than lowry last season.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:23 pm
by jehosafats
SactoKingsFan wrote:The point is that Lowry is a borderline candidate if none of these guys have been voted in.
Tim Hardaway - 5x all-star, 5x all- NBA
Chris Webber - 5x all-star, 5x all- NBA, ROY, franchise cornerstone for title contender
Shawn Kemp - 6x all-star, 3x all-nba, top 2 player on Finals team
Marques Johnson - 5x all-star, 3x all-nba
And Lowry's championship with Kawhi over the injury riddled Warriors shouldn't give him any edge over Webber ( went to game 7 vs Shaq & Kobe in WCF) and Kemp (pushed Jordan's Bulls to 6, arguably Sonics best player in Finals).
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I'm still not over it either
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:31 pm
by udfa
I knew Lowry was underrated but I had no idea by how much. Besides having been an all-star the past five years, Lowry has been in the top-6 among PGs in RPM each of the past 6 seasons and has posted double digit WS in 4 of those 6 seasons...yet so many believe strongly that he doesn't belong in the top-10?
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:44 pm
by The_Hater
youngcrev wrote:The_Hater wrote:youngcrev wrote:
It's not like Lowry was a traditional championship #2. That team was Kawhi + an ensemble cast. You could easily say Pascal was the 2nd best player on that team.
...
Maybe during the season but Siakam wasn’t during the playoffs, Pascal disappeared for most of the Sixers and Bucks series. Overall, Lowry was clearly the 2nd best Raptor during the playoffs. Wasn’t even close.
Pascal was killing the Sixers before they adjusted and put Embiid on him. Kyle doesn't really have an exploitable weakness that will kill you, but he doesn't exactly cook other teams either. Lowry didn't do much in that series. It was 100% Kawhi going into Terminator mode. Gasol had a bigger impact on that series than Lowry did.
Right. And then Embiid took siakam right out of the series the final 5 games. Are we just supposed to ignore that happened? Just look at Siakam’s stats in both of those series I mentioned and they were not very good but he was excellent against the Magic and Warriors. Overall, his playoff stats weren’t nearly as good as his regular season numbers.
Anyways, we’re talking about 4 rounds of playoffs and Lowry was easily the Raps 2nd best player both statistically and visually. You seem focused on 1 series against your Sixers. Siakam disappeared for long stretches and let’s not pretend Gasol was a better playoff performer than either of them for it’s entirety.
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:46 pm
by GusT15
udfa wrote:I knew Lowry was underrated but I had no idea by how much. Besides having been an all-star the past five years, Lowry has been in the top-6 among PGs in RPM each of the past 6 seasons and has posted double digit WS in 4 of those 6 seasons...yet so many believe strongly that he doesn't belong in the top-10?
According to the current poll
46% has him 6-10
28% has him 11-30
26% has him 1-5
I mean,it's a pretty fair voting sample,the "overrating him" posters are the same as the "underrating him" posters.
Why are you singling one group out?
Re: Where do you guys rank Kyle Lowry?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:47 pm
by sixerswillrule
RaptorPride wrote:SactoKingsFan wrote:Metallikid wrote:
He's a lock. Go look at his career achievements and then find me someone who is similar but didn't get in. I'll wait.
Shawn Kemp, Tim Hardaway, Marques Johnson and Chris Webber.
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And none of them have a Ring so I guess that could put Lowry over
Rasheed?
Lowry might make it. It's not a lock though.