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Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:19 am
by clyde21
he'll be a 20/10 guy, question is how impactful he's gonna be considering he's not a great defender/rim protector, isn't a playmaker and doesn't necessarily stretch the floor (yet)...
have a real PG is gonna do wonders for him statistically
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:30 am
by SlovenianDragon
clyde21 wrote:he'll be a 20/10 guy, question is how impactful he's gonna be considering he's not a great defender/rim protector, isn't a playmaker and doesn't necessarily stretch the floor (yet)...
have a real PG is gonna do wonders for him statistically
Ayton actually is a good passer
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:36 am
by Crives
SlovenianDragon wrote:clyde21 wrote:he'll be a 20/10 guy, question is how impactful he's gonna be considering he's not a great defender/rim protector, isn't a playmaker and doesn't necessarily stretch the floor (yet)...
have a real PG is gonna do wonders for him statistically
Ayton actually is a good passer
I think it’s very realistic to see Ayton average 4-5 assists next season... especially with all of the shooting we added (Saric/Cam/Jerome/Kaminsky/Baynes)
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:38 am
by Winsome Gerbil
I was less impressed with him last season that I should have been. And critically, I didn't see explosive "oh now he's getting it" growth from one end of the season to the other. Before the All Star break he averaged 16.5pts 10.5reb 2.0ast in 30.9min. After the break he averaged 15.7pts 10.3reb 1.2ast in 30.2min. That doesn't mean he's topped out at 20, but it does mean that projecting him out to be some sort of all time figure is hard to justify.
There's kind of a meat and potatoes aspect to him. That's denigrating him a little bit since he has a lot of talent, but he just...exudes solidity and utility more than dynamism. He's got a good post game, he rolls well and took advantage of a lot of Booker's gravity, he is a stout rebounder with a great physique to carry that on for a long time. Well what's the problem? He's got all the basic center boxes checked. But thing is he didn't feel like a playmaker or gamechanger in his first season. Not unique, unstoppable, not hugely creative. And of course he has to get better results defensively. He's on a bad team, if the defense remains meh he'll get KATed, everyone will pay attention, point to it, and dismiss everything else he does forever (rightly, or IMO wrongly).
Pollwise, with the rebirth of big man basketball I have complete no duh confidence in "starter", and his raw basic productivity would argue that in a vacuum he'll eventually make an All Star team. But projecting more seems unmerited right now. And without an explosive turn, the number and timing of any All Star appearances might depend on competition and where he's at. Right now he is in a Conference where he would have to beat out Jokic, KAT, Cousins, Gobert, A.D., Porzingis, Aldridge. I don't know he was dynamic enough for me to believe that at the moment.
First step, and it's only a small jump for him, would be just to establish himself as a 20-10 guy with a real PG this season. Improve the defense. Wait for his moment as his team improves enough that people will pay attention.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:41 am
by Winsome Gerbil
Crives wrote:SlovenianDragon wrote:clyde21 wrote:he'll be a 20/10 guy, question is how impactful he's gonna be considering he's not a great defender/rim protector, isn't a playmaker and doesn't necessarily stretch the floor (yet)...
have a real PG is gonna do wonders for him statistically
Ayton actually is a good passer
I think it’s very realistic to see Ayton average 4-5 assists next season... especially with all of the shooting we added (Saric/Cam/Jerome/Kaminsky/Baynes)
Rubio and Booker is a highly ball dominant guard tandem.
Deandre is largely a passer out of the post. Great skill, and one that sometimes is missed as being what separates the great from the Great post players. But he'd have to be getting a LOT of postups to average that many assists given how unlikely he is to be handling the ball out on the perimeter.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:28 am
by GregOden
GrindCityHustle wrote:A better on paper Al Jefferson that you want to turn into David Robinson
Ayton at 6'11 without shoes and 7'5 wingspan can definitely turn into David Robinson. Considering Al Jefferson was only a hair over 6'8 he really never had the size to be an elite center, and never had Draymond's motor to make up for it.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:36 am
by JDR720
GregOden wrote:GrindCityHustle wrote:A better on paper Al Jefferson that you want to turn into David Robinson
Ayton at 6'11 without shoes and 7'5 wingspan can definitely turn into David Robinson. Considering Al Jefferson was only a hair over 6'8 he really never had the size to be an elite center, and never had Draymond's motor to make up for it.
Al Jefferson had a good (7'3) wingspan and was 280 pounds at least, he had plenty of size. If anything, he was too big because his stamina was bad. His problem was his defense and turning into a black-hole (that was sometimes terrible and sometimes good). He was elite offensively though, probably the best or at worst a top 3 post-scoring center in the league. Especially in his All-NBA year, he was basically unstoppable.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:37 am
by Lalouie
good enough that Phx lost two more games with him than the previous year. he should be worth 40 losses by the time he's done
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:39 am
by NO-KG-AI
I don’t think he’s quite the athlete people think he is, but think he’ll end up a way better defender than people expect.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:48 am
by SlovenianDragon
Lalouie wrote:good enough that Phx lost two more games with him than the previous year. he should be worth 40 losses by the time he's done
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:13 am
by LukaV
It really depends on his motor. To me he unfortonately doesn't seem to be "hungry" enough to be a #1 option, but I hope that I'm wrong, 'cause to me that is the only thing separating from an all-NBA level. If he'll lack in the motor department, I think he'll be a terrific #2 option.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:32 am
by gh123
Expect him to be a top 5 C next year. There isn't a lot competition after Biid, Jokic and KAT. Sometimes Cs take longer to develop ofc, but Rubio and Booker should be feeding him well and he might approach 20ppg if everything goes right.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:56 am
by SlovenianDragon
LukaV wrote:It really depends on his motor. To me he unfortonately doesn't seem to be "hungry" enough to be a #1 option, but I hope that I'm wrong, 'cause to me that is the only thing separating from an all-NBA level. If he'll lack in the motor department, I think he'll be a terrific #2 option.
Ayton is actually a "hungry" player but most people don't see that because he is very humble as well.
If anyone wants a little background on Ayton during the off-season:
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:01 am
by sacking123
Right now I think he is a decent young player with loads of potential. In his prime he will be at least an all star and could become a top 5 player in the NBA.
He will show amazing improvement this coming season and the Suns as a team will raise some eyebrows.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:14 am
by Sign5
Crazy how much Trae and Luka overshadowed him (he had a great year himself). I could easily see him take that '3rd year leap' in his 2nd. It's rare to see rookie bigs so comfortable and poised as he was, so i can imagine him dominating within the next couple of years.
Allstar is obviously the safest bet but he has the tools to be a superstar and be around where Embiid is ranking-wise.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:26 am
by SlovenianDragon
Also Ayton wasn't bad defensively his rookie year. Ayton doesn't have much holes in his game so u have to take something to nit pick...
And I agree that his defense. He can be better and he will be...
I like this video though...
I mean Ayton himself said his rookie season was average, he has said his defense needs to be better, he said he wants to be able to bring the ball up the court like Giannis...Hes working on his 3pt shooting... Kid is busting with potential... He didn't even know what basketball was when he went to his first camp.
I voted all-star but if he keeps improving every part of his game no reason why he couldn't be an MVP… no1 thought Giannis would be an mvp and look at him now....His first 3 seasons were BLEH.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/antetgi01.html
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:29 am
by koningcosmo
how can people say he will become a bust when his rookie season was 16.3pts 10.3rb 58.5FG% . He is top 20 in 2pt FG, offensive and defensive rebounds and FG % what do you want more of a rookie?? it should only get better.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:34 am
by SlovenianDragon
koningcosmo wrote:how can people say he will become a bust when his rookie season was 16.3pts 10.3rb 58.5FG% . He is top 20 in 2pt FG, offensive and defensive rebounds and FG % what do you want more of a rookie?? it should only get better.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:47 am
by VDT
He doesnt create his shot and he doesnt have particularly good instincts defensively. That puts him a fair amount below the second player in a title team.
A general thing about centers nowadays, I think people fall too much in love with mobile rim running bigs and spend high picks on them disregarding the fact that that is a skillset of a roleplayers and that you can get similar players much lower in the draft. So yes such players can help the team but 1) their ceiling is low because they cant create b) they dont help the team win if they are on a large contract. In short they are replaceable players and the teams shouldnt make big investments on them pick or salary-wise.
Re: How good is DeAndre Ayton right now and later in his prime
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:11 am
by Lockdown504090
he already has the hands and feet to be an all star. Add in his size and athleticism its only a matter of time. What can make him a superstar is better form on his shot and a better understanding of the game on both sides of the ball. His defense is even worse than towns was at this age, but he does try and he just needs to learn positioning and defensive footwork