Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

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Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

Yes
408
84%
No
75
16%
 
Total votes: 483

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#161 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:17 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:Sounds like a hell of a lot of excuses for why Doncic was an inefficient chucker last year. I'd love to hear the excuses for his poor defense next time you get the chance as well.

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I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.
Actually I'm German and watched many Mavs games last year as they've been my second favorite team since Dirk. Everything you've proclaimed about why Doncic was inefficient is an excuse, and everything you've proclaimed about Doncic increasing his efficiency because of X and Y and Z is an assumption. Players get better teammates or join better teams all the time and don't improve efficiency by much. I'm sure Doncic will become a more efficient player because of his own development, not because of all the excuses you just made. But that too is an assumption, just like assuming Ben can't develop even a mediocre jumpshot and continue to improve his FT shooting.

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:roll:
Das ist so ziemlich das lachhafteste was ich heute gelesen habe. Du bist Deutscher? Na das werden wir ja bald sehen. Ich finde das immer wieder belustigend, wie Leute Fakten, die ihnen nicht passen, einfach so mir nichts dir nichts von der Hand weisen. Armselige Argumentation.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#162 » by Misteclipse » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:19 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
Ben was/is a third option, second at best, on a vastly superior team. He does not nearly get the same defensive attention Doncic got who was, especially after the big trade, the only real scoring threat on his team. Swap places and it is Doncic who will be far more efficient while Simmons would look like a "chucker". I am continuously amazed how little context matters to a large portion of posters here.
The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#163 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:20 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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Both Gasol and Lopez already had the fundamentals for shooting down, they could hit shots from beyond 3 ft unlike Simons. Ricky Rubio still cannot shoot. Rondo never learned to shoot. Shaq never learned to shoot FTs. Wilt never learned to shoot FTs. Means nothing to bring up a few players who late during their career added the ability to hit open 3s I can find just as many players who did not learn to shoot.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#164 » by Johnny Firpo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:23 pm

LloydFree wrote:These Doncic fans better learn to crawl before they walk. Worry about whether Dallas would swap Doncic for Trae Young.


Let's not act like only Doncic fans has this opinion. I don't even want to comment on the hypothetical, but stop with this nonsense that Doncic fans are saying this only. Darn near everyone in this thread.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#165 » by Misteclipse » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:25 pm

Pg81 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
I’m not even a fan, but if that’s just a bad take. Anyone with a TS% of .550 is an inefficient chucker? No.
It was .545 which is below the league average, and yes anyone that takes 7 threes a game at a .327 clip is an inefficient chucker. It's only fair since the hip thing to do is to knock a player that scores the ball efficiently and plays within his means.

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:crazy:
Until the all star break Luka shot around 37% from beyond the arc with an impressive range hitting last second shots from half court. It was only after the rest of the starting 5 was traded away that his efficiency started to slip and then came the knee injury. Simmons is efficient not because he is the better scorer or skilled but because he has the optimal team around him and gets by on his athleticism, similar to guys like Stoudamire and Howard on far lower volume. Pray that he will never have a serious injury because without his athleticism Simmons would be completely worthless as a scorer. What is more the Mavs were tanking and Doncic was given the free light so he took quite a few bad shots especially when his team mates were unable to hit wide open 3s and he got impatient, a habit easily fixable with a good coach and some more experience. Swap places and Simmons is far worse than Doncic despite having an effective range of 3 feet. Furthermore many rookies, including for example LeBron, struggle with effiency in their rookie year so this is not anything special either. Come back to me when Simmons can finally hit wide open 3s without embarassing himself.
Anyone proclaiming Doncic to be a mere chucker has either not watched the Mavs or has no clue about basketball.

Oh and here, Dirk's rookie statline: 8/3/1 on 41/21/77. But I guess Dirk was nothing but a chucker.
Trae Young levels of excuses. As has been said already, Mavs fans should worry about Doncic being better than Trae Young before worrying about him being better than an all-star on a 50 win team.

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#166 » by Johnny Firpo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:32 pm

Canadian6ersFan wrote:This is how completely random fanbases start hating your team's favorite player - when you push and push and push your player down people's throats in a variety of ways (threads, comparisons, etc) whether they're valid or invalid points.

We might actually like the dude, but the nauseating and over-the-top flamboyantly exclamatory aggressiveness of your description makes it unbearable and we ultimately turn against a player whom we either have neutral or positive feelings about.

And then you turn them into negative feelings right away.

It happens to a lot of young players (more recently Tatum, Mitchell etc.).


Wake up, everybody is pushing Luka, not just us Mavs fans. Read the freakin' thread. Maybe it's time to recognize how good of a prospect he is?
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#167 » by Bob8 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:33 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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He’s not shooting midrange shots either. And it’s a big difference if a Pg don’t know/want to shoot or a C. I have never before seen a backcourt player, who cannot shoot at all. Rubio is a bad shooter, but he’s light years better than Simmons and he’s good FT shooter. Simmons has shooting ability of very bad C. Shaq was bad too, but he fortunately for him didn’t need to shoot from range. I believe it’s more likely that Simmons will never learn how to shoot. Do you really believe that he didn’t try to learn it before? What about his FTs, which are mostly good indication about people’s shooting ability?
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#168 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:It was .545 which is below the league average, and yes anyone that takes 7 threes a game at a .327 clip is an inefficient chucker. It's only fair since the hip thing to do is to knock a player that scores the ball efficiently and plays within his means.

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:crazy:
Until the all star break Luka shot around 37% from beyond the arc with an impressive range hitting last second shots from half court. It was only after the rest of the starting 5 was traded away that his efficiency started to slip and then came the knee injury. Simmons is efficient not because he is the better scorer or skilled but because he has the optimal team around him and gets by on his athleticism, similar to guys like Stoudamire and Howard on far lower volume. Pray that he will never have a serious injury because without his athleticism Simmons would be completely worthless as a scorer. What is more the Mavs were tanking and Doncic was given the free light so he took quite a few bad shots especially when his team mates were unable to hit wide open 3s and he got impatient, a habit easily fixable with a good coach and some more experience. Swap places and Simmons is far worse than Doncic despite having an effective range of 3 feet. Furthermore many rookies, including for example LeBron, struggle with effiency in their rookie year so this is not anything special either. Come back to me when Simmons can finally hit wide open 3s without embarassing himself.
Anyone proclaiming Doncic to be a mere chucker has either not watched the Mavs or has no clue about basketball.

Oh and here, Dirk's rookie statline: 8/3/1 on 41/21/77. But I guess Dirk was nothing but a chucker.
Trae Young levels of excuses. As has been said already, Mavs fans should worry about Doncic being better than Trae Young before worrying about him being better than an all-star on a 50 win team.

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:lol:
Nothing but poor deflections, I have yet to read a single argument from you. Come on, bring up again how vital it was for us to know that you are supposedly German or how facts are only excuses.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#169 » by JRoy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:40 pm

In a heartbeat.

Top tier clutch scorer with elite play making would make Philly very dangerous.

Simmons is an excellent but has a giant hole in his game.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#170 » by Lalouie » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm

sure are a lot of lopsided polls lately
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#171 » by Ecmic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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Those three bigs started shooting threes around the same time - the two year period from '15 to '17. I'd guess they each started practicing taking more volume only a bit before that.

Why do you think they started taking more threes during that period?

I'd guess it has MUCH more to do with the trends of the game, and much less to do with the fact they simply wanted to wait nine years before expanding their game. Those three guys adapted quickly to the three-point trend. Simmons, thus far, hasn't even taken the first step, and he came up in the era of the three ball - he didn't have to adjust to it like those other guys.

Simmons' situation isn't comparable to those guys. Why is Simmons waiting? the 76ers would be world champs right now if he had Lopez's shot, or Gasol's, or Horford's. Why is he waiting??? Is a championship not incentive enough?
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#172 » by VDT » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:22 pm

Pg81 wrote:
VDT wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
I love those deflections, proclaiming facts to be "excuses" when you have no argument whatsoever. As to defense, yeah he is bad. So what? Dirk was a bad defender early in his career. Nash was too, as was Bird, Magic, Barkley was, etc. Means absolutely nothing for projecting a current player. Simmons so far is a rich mans Ricky Rubio and I see nothing to suggest he will be anything else. Meanwhile Doncic has the potential to become someone anywhere between Paul Pierce with better play-making or Larry Bird.
Also you proclaiming that he was an inefficient chucker means you have no clue what happened with the Mavs during the season. Bet you hardly watched any games either.


Come on now.

So Doncic's floor is a better Paul Pierce?

I get fans tend to overrate their young players but it is getting a bit ridiculous here.

The truth is that most of the young players will not amount to much and will be a footnote (or less) in the history of the league.

I would like to see Doncic's second year, how much he will improve given the fact that he was a much more polished player than the other rookies and whether he and Porzinghis can lead Dallas anywhere. Then we will have a much better idea for his future as a player.


What is wrong with that? Luka won everything in Europe including MvP awards which far surpass any college achievments. He had a very good rookie season especially early on and struggled after the AS break due to having to play with a roster depleted of talent and playing several games with a lingering knee injury which forced him in the end to miss 7 games. Before that the Mavs were on course of getting to a 0.500 season with DeAndre being his second best player and otherwise little talent.

Paul Pierce rookie season: 17/6/2 on 45/41/71 worse statline than Doncic. 3 point efficiency is deceptive, Pierce took less than two shots from beyond the arc that season.



You cant just extrapolate like that because player development is neither linear nor the same for everyone.

People do it all the time when it fits their agenda but is simply not true. I mentioned it before in this thread, Simmons had an arguably as good rookie season if not better, however he is now getting crucified for his flaws.

Doncic is a bit different in the sense that he is a more well rounded player and doesnt have the glaring holes in his game that Simmons has, however there are issues with him also. His limited athleticism and increased experience could potentially mean that his margin for growth is lower than other players his age. Let's see what he does this year that teams will be able to gameplan for him more and whether he can lead the Dallas to the playoffs. Then we will have a better idea about his future as a player.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#173 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 pm

VDT wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
VDT wrote:
Come on now.

So Doncic's floor is a better Paul Pierce?

I get fans tend to overrate their young players but it is getting a bit ridiculous here.

The truth is that most of the young players will not amount to much and will be a footnote (or less) in the history of the league.

I would like to see Doncic's second year, how much he will improve given the fact that he was a much more polished player than the other rookies and whether he and Porzinghis can lead Dallas anywhere. Then we will have a much better idea for his future as a player.


What is wrong with that? Luka won everything in Europe including MvP awards which far surpass any college achievments. He had a very good rookie season especially early on and struggled after the AS break due to having to play with a roster depleted of talent and playing several games with a lingering knee injury which forced him in the end to miss 7 games. Before that the Mavs were on course of getting to a 0.500 season with DeAndre being his second best player and otherwise little talent.

Paul Pierce rookie season: 17/6/2 on 45/41/71 worse statline than Doncic. 3 point efficiency is deceptive, Pierce took less than two shots from beyond the arc that season.



You cant just extrapolate like that because player development is neither linear nor the same for everyone.

People do it all the time when it fits their agenda but is simply not true. I mentioned it before in this thread, Simmons had an arguably as good rookie season if not better, however he is now getting crucified for his flaws.

Doncic is a bit different in the sense that he is a more well rounded player and doesnt have the glaring holes in his game that Simmons has, however there are issues with him also. His limited athleticism and increased experience could potentially mean that his margin for growth is lower than other players his age. Let's see what he does this year that teams will be able to gameplan for him more and whether he can lead the Dallas to the playoffs. Then we will have a better idea about his future as a player.


No, Simmons is not getting crucified for his flaw, which is not just a flaw but a huge gaping hole, he gets crucified because he has made 0 progress in 2 years on it. I see no reason why I cannot pick players with inferior rookie season and project Doncic reaching a similar or better level as a realistic goal he can, though not necessarily will, reach. As to scouting, teams had 82 games to scout him and it did not slow him down one bit. As to margin of growth, there is not even remotely a single stat for that, ergo not an argument.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#174 » by Bob8 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:41 pm

VDT wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
VDT wrote:
Come on now.

So Doncic's floor is a better Paul Pierce?

I get fans tend to overrate their young players but it is getting a bit ridiculous here.

The truth is that most of the young players will not amount to much and will be a footnote (or less) in the history of the league.

I would like to see Doncic's second year, how much he will improve given the fact that he was a much more polished player than the other rookies and whether he and Porzinghis can lead Dallas anywhere. Then we will have a much better idea for his future as a player.


What is wrong with that? Luka won everything in Europe including MvP awards which far surpass any college achievments. He had a very good rookie season especially early on and struggled after the AS break due to having to play with a roster depleted of talent and playing several games with a lingering knee injury which forced him in the end to miss 7 games. Before that the Mavs were on course of getting to a 0.500 season with DeAndre being his second best player and otherwise little talent.

Paul Pierce rookie season: 17/6/2 on 45/41/71 worse statline than Doncic. 3 point efficiency is deceptive, Pierce took less than two shots from beyond the arc that season.



You cant just extrapolate like that because player development is neither linear nor the same for everyone.

People do it all the time when it fits their agenda but is simply not true. I mentioned it before in this thread, Simmons had an arguably as good rookie season if not better, however he is now getting crucified for his flaws.

Doncic is a bit different in the sense that he is a more well rounded player and doesnt have the glaring holes in his game that Simmons has, however there are issues with him also. His limited athleticism and increased experience could potentially mean that his margin for growth is lower than other players his age. Let's see what he does this year that teams will be able to gameplan for him more and whether he can lead the Dallas to the playoffs. Then we will have a better idea about his future as a player.


Luka’s margin for growth might be lower, but a 21/8/6 player doesn’t need to grow as much as other rookies. People are forgetting how good he already is. He has big room for improvement in conditioning, and if he adds better efficiency and shooting, which he’s for sure capable off, he’s 25/8/8 man without adding anything spectacular. That’s great floor for low ceiling player. ;)

And I have seen that some here believe how teammates don’t have influence, how somebody is playing. That’s of course not true, especially not in Luka’s case, where Mavs are willing to build a team around him. KP, Wright and Curry look much better fit than DSJ&Co.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#175 » by Pumpkin17 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:04 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Pumpkin17 wrote:Sixers would do it in half a second, it is much easier to find a defensive weapon like Simmons, which is where Simmons has the clear advantage than an offensive one like Doncic. Simmons cannot shoot and this will not change. Doncic is also better in the half-court, which is how playoffs are played.
Quite an ironic post considering the playoffs is also where top level defense matters. Philadelphia wouldn't have gone nearly as far they did in the playoffs without his defense. He embarrassed DLo and they definitely don't take the champion Raptors to a last second miracle shot in game 7.

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I have not said he isn't good or his defense wasn't important. I just said it would be easier to replace that than what Doncic brings on the offensive side, which is infinitely better shooting and great play under pressure.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#176 » by Ayt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:59 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:The assumption that Doncic will suddenly become an efficient scorer with a wet jumper is about as ridiculous as the assumption Ben can't develop a jumpshot. I look at facts, not assumptions on what might happen, and the fact is right now Ben is a much better overall player, with more potential.

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What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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A midrange jumper was a big part of the offensive game for all three of those guys before they extended their range out to three. Simmons doesn't even attempt midrange jumpers let alone drill them with regularity. He is closer to a Dwight Howard than he is those guys.

Here is his shot chart from the playoffs. A player like this won't magically become a competent three point shooter. Simmons doesn't even have a foundation from which to build a three point shot at this point.

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#177 » by SF_Warriors » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:06 pm

First of all, 54.5% TS for a 19 year old rookie who had to lead his team offensively is actually pretty good (he didn't turn 20 until there were 20 games left in the season btw..). People calling him a chucker or talking about his efficiency as a 19 year old rookie as being bad is just a terrible take. Have you seen how 19 year rookie efficiency is like in the nba? Keep in mind he had absolutely zero help, especially after the midseason trades.

Ben, who I absolutely love as a player, had joel freakin embiid to play off of. I'm not even sure Luka played with anyone better than JJ Reddick during his rookie year. Simmons also started his nba career over 2.5 years later than when luka started his. Give luka 2 more seasons and then we can make a actual comparison, but based on his rookie year, he looks like he can be a better player than ben.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#178 » by Antinomy » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:40 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
LloydFree wrote:These Doncic fans better learn to crawl before they walk. Worry about whether Dallas would swap Doncic for Trae Young.


Let's not act like only Doncic fans has this opinion. I don't even want to comment on the hypothetical, but stop with this nonsense that Doncic fans are saying this only. Darn near everyone in this thread.


Exactly. Anyone could a look at my post history & see what I thought about Doncic before he came into the league.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#179 » by SF_Warriors » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:44 pm

Ayt wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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A midrange jumper was a big part of the offensive game for all three of those guys before they extended their range out to three. Simmons doesn't even attempt midrange jumpers let alone drill them with regularity. He is closer to a Dwight Howard than he is those guys.

Here is his shot chart from the playoffs. A player like this won't magically become a competent three point shooter. Simmons doesn't even have a foundation from which to build a three point shot at this point.

Image


Just to add on:

The aforementioned bigs were shooting 30-40% of their shots from mid range before transitioning to the three point shot. Not to mention they were all regarded as well above average jump shooting bigs their entire careers. Ben shoots a career 15% of his shots from past 10 feet and at a much lower percentage there than those players mentioned. Yes, Ben probably knows and is aware of his limitations, which is why he does not shoot jump shots often, but being aware of one's limitations and actually improving it to become a strength are two different things.

Right now, is it more likely that Doncic becomes a good enough offensive player to average 58% plus TS% by the time he is Ben's age, or is it more likely that Simmons becomes a viable jump shooter while also maintaining or exceeding his current efficiency?

Basically, there are two separate situations at play here. One is a case where players were expanding on an area of their game they were already proficient at..versus one where it is a weakness and a glaring one at that.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#180 » by Misteclipse » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:07 pm

Ecmic wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
What sounds more realistic? Luka to become 38% 3pts shooter from 33% and 0.59 TS from 0.55 or that Simmons becomes 30% 3pts shooter from 0? ;)

Luka needs small adjustments, like every other young player. Simmons needs to do something that he was unable to do in 15 years. He’s not bad shooter, who needs to become better, he’s not taking shots at all. And that’s a big difference. Even if he starts to take some shots, other teams will be very happy to let him shooting. This will be long process not something that happens over summer. Simmons’s efficiency would go only down next year, if he starts shooting. Things will get ugly before they get better.
Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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Those three bigs started shooting threes around the same time - the two year period from '15 to '17. I'd guess they each started practicing taking more volume only a bit before that.

Why do you think they started taking more threes during that period?

I'd guess it has MUCH more to do with the trends of the game, and much less to do with the fact they simply wanted to wait nine years before expanding their game. Those three guys adapted quickly to the three-point trend. Simmons, thus far, hasn't even taken the first step, and he came up in the era of the three ball - he didn't have to adjust to it like those other guys.

Simmons' situation isn't comparable to those guys. Why is Simmons waiting? the 76ers would be world champs right now if he had Lopez's shot, or Gasol's, or Horford's. Why is he waiting??? Is a championship not incentive enough?
Simmons is also a young player that's gotten by on athleticism his whole life and is an NBA All Star without a jump shot. It's quite obvious why he never worked on it, he never needed to. But it's also pretty obvious he's worked on it this offseason, even going so far as to finally hiring a dedicated shooting coach in Chris Johnson.

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