Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

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Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

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No
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#181 » by Ecmic » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:13 pm

Misteclipse wrote:
Ecmic wrote:
Misteclipse wrote:Brook Lopez didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Marc Gasol didnt start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Horford didn't start shooting 3s until his 9th year in the league. Simmons isn't stupid. It's quite realistic to believe he'll start to develop a shot. He's well aware he needs a respectable jumpshot to be more efficient in the half court.

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Those three bigs started shooting threes around the same time - the two year period from '15 to '17. I'd guess they each started practicing taking more volume only a bit before that.

Why do you think they started taking more threes during that period?

I'd guess it has MUCH more to do with the trends of the game, and much less to do with the fact they simply wanted to wait nine years before expanding their game. Those three guys adapted quickly to the three-point trend. Simmons, thus far, hasn't even taken the first step, and he came up in the era of the three ball - he didn't have to adjust to it like those other guys.

Simmons' situation isn't comparable to those guys. Why is Simmons waiting? the 76ers would be world champs right now if he had Lopez's shot, or Gasol's, or Horford's. Why is he waiting??? Is a championship not incentive enough?
Simmons is also a young player that's gotten by on athleticism his whole life and is an NBA All Star without a jump shot. It's quite obvious why he never worked on it, he never needed to. But it's also pretty obvious he's worked on it this offseason, even going so far as to finally hiring a dedicated shooting coach in Chris Johnson.

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None of that applies to Lopez, Gasol, or Horford, though. They’ve always been good shooters. Their path is irrelevant to Simmons’ prospects.

This will be his fourth season in the NBA. I strongly disagree that “he’s never needed to” work on his shot. He’s needed to work on his shot for a long time now.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#182 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:23 pm

Most guys in the NBA, especially stars and big men, basically got by on size/athleticism or both for large portions of their life, and still have managed to sink more than 0 3's.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#183 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:24 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:Most guys in the NBA, especially stars and big men, basically got by on size/athleticism or both for large portions of their life, and still have managed to sink more than 0 3's.


How Tatum "sink" all those 3's and still average less points than Ben?
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#184 » by BIG Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:34 pm

I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#185 » by NO-KG-AI » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:05 pm

stormi wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:Most guys in the NBA, especially stars and big men, basically got by on size/athleticism or both for large portions of their life, and still have managed to sink more than 0 3's.


How Tatum "sink" all those 3's and still average less points than Ben?


I dunno what that has to do with me, the topic at hand, or Ben's piss poor, god awful shooting that made him look like a scrub come post season time...

And for what it's worth, Tatum is a pretty low bar, but he actually scored more in the playoffs than Simmons so far, not surprisingly.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#186 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:13 pm

BIG Game wrote:I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.


What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#187 » by GeorgeMarcus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:22 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:
stormi wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:Most guys in the NBA, especially stars and big men, basically got by on size/athleticism or both for large portions of their life, and still have managed to sink more than 0 3's.


How Tatum "sink" all those 3's and still average less points than Ben?


I dunno what that has to do with me, the topic at hand, or Ben's piss poor, god awful shooting that made him look like a scrub come post season time...

And for what it's worth, Tatum is a pretty low bar, but he actually scored more in the playoffs than Simmons so far, not surprisingly.


Ben was great in the playoffs. 5.5 BPM, +5.1 on/off, and was our best defender on Kawhi and DLo. 13.9 (62.5 TS%), 7.1 and 6.0 on only 16.6 usg%. I’ve seen this narrative swirling but I don’t get it. Maybe it stems from his series in Boston last year, but I’ll give him a pass for being a rookie.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#188 » by GeorgeMarcus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:31 pm

Pg81 wrote:
BIG Game wrote:I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.


What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.


Riddle me this. If the problem was Luka’s teammates, why did the team play better with him off the court? Even the offense didn’t improve with Luka, and the defense got worse. That directly contradicts what you’re saying. It’s a forgivable offense because he was a rookie, but you’re talking about him like he already demonstrated star impact when that’s just not true.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#189 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:42 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:
stormi wrote:
NO-KG-AI wrote:Most guys in the NBA, especially stars and big men, basically got by on size/athleticism or both for large portions of their life, and still have managed to sink more than 0 3's.


How Tatum "sink" all those 3's and still average less points than Ben?


I dunno what that has to do with me, the topic at hand, or Ben's piss poor, god awful shooting that made him look like a scrub come post season time...

And for what it's worth, Tatum is a pretty low bar, but he actually scored more in the playoffs than Simmons so far, not surprisingly.


Tatum is a pretty low bar considering he peaked as a rookie. Enjoy your warchest leading to Martell Webster and Corey Brewer with a flat top.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#190 » by Mirotic12 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:44 pm

The 76ers would definitely do it if they could. But they key part of that is the "if they could" part. Dallas would laugh them off the phone if they called with such a trade offer.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#191 » by Kobblehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Doncic, yes.
Tatum, yes.
Mitchell, yes.
Fox, maybe.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#192 » by Ice Trae » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:00 pm

Doncic stans are getting close to peak Lin stans :lol:
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#193 » by BIG Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:02 pm

Pg81 wrote:
BIG Game wrote:I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.


What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.


Let see Doncic in the playoffs. My argument is this, when you have little to no expectations everything good you do is blow up.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#194 » by BIG Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:23 pm

BIG Game wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
BIG Game wrote:I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.


What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.


Let see Doncic in the playoffs. My argument is this, when you have little to no expectations everything good you do is blow up.


A perfect example of this is Tatum. Tatum is a guy that drives a lot of offseason discussion. He went from being a budding superstar to a player with a solid future. I like Tatum and I am excited to see him develop. However, what is the difference between last year and this year. To me it was expectations; no one thought Tatum would be leading a young Boston team to the ECF. Therefore, when it happens we adjust our impression of him and put him into a new box. The following year we put him in the superstar box and he falls short. Now we are harder on him, because we thought that he was on one trajectory when in actually he is still a young kid finding his way. Expectations are the great equalizer when it comes to superstar status. Once you have expectations you are expected to hit milestones, and if you fall short, we are naturally harder on you. Jordan is GOAT status because they consistently lived up or surpassed his expectations; nothing cements your greatness like living up to expectations.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#195 » by Pg81 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
BIG Game wrote:I still have Simmons over Doncic. To me it's easy to be great on a poor team, lets wait until Doncic makes the playoffs. Simmons is a deep shot away from being unstoppable.


What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.


Riddle me this. If the problem was Luka’s teammates, why did the team play better with him off the court? Even the offense didn’t improve with Luka, and the defense got worse. That directly contradicts what you’re saying. It’s a forgivable offense because he was a rookie, but you’re talking about him like he already demonstrated star impact when that’s just not true.


Except its completely and utterly a lie. The year before Doncic came team went 24-58. After Doncic came the team was on a trajectory of going for 42 wins, a substantial increase with Dirk having his worst season and the only real capable team mate being a declining DeAndre Jordan. Then the FO decided to go tank mode, depleting the roster to laughable talent level and they still ended up at 33 wins, despite a depleted roster and Doncic struggling with a knee injury. If you believe for one second the team was better with Doncic off the floor then you either do not care for actual results over cherry picked meaningless "advanced" stats, watched the Mavs playing or have absolutely no clue about basketball or any combination of those.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#196 » by GeorgeMarcus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:04 am

Pg81 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
What utter nonsense. Being the only real scoring threat means that the opponent can guard you that much more effectively with double teams and force you to take tough shots. Doncic has damn impressive stats considering that he already played with two vastly different and especially during the second half of the season depleted roster and barely missed a beat. Considering how terrible the rest of the team was hitting wide open 3s makes his assist number eve more impressive. Furthermore, a clear double standard, I never heard this kind of argument about players like rookie Bird, MJ, LeBron and the likes who went on terrible teams and started producing good to great stats from the get go, only Doncic gets that kind of treatment. Considering pre NBA achievments, Doncic is right up there with those guys.
It is in fact the other way around, it is easy for Simmons to score efficiently because defenses have to worry about more players than him. If he were the sole scorer he would suffer a significant drop in efficiency at least, might even drop in terms of average ppg. He also has capable scorers around him, especially Embiid, who can convert his assist at a high rate. That is two stats already where Simmons profits from vastly superior team mates.


Riddle me this. If the problem was Luka’s teammates, why did the team play better with him off the court? Even the offense didn’t improve with Luka, and the defense got worse. That directly contradicts what you’re saying. It’s a forgivable offense because he was a rookie, but you’re talking about him like he already demonstrated star impact when that’s just not true.


Except its untrue.


Except it's not.

Mavs in the 2,318 minutes with Luka on the court: -118
Mavs in the 1,618 minutes with Luka off the court: +20

So... Yeah. Like I said, forgivable for a rookie, but he's not as good/impactful as you seem to think. Not yet anyway.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#197 » by GeorgeMarcus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:05 am

Pg81 wrote:Except its completely and utterly a lie. The year before Doncic came team went 24-58. After Doncic came the team was on a trajectory of going for 42 wins, a substantial increase with Dirk having his worst season and the only real capable team mate being a declining DeAndre Jordan. Then the FO decided to go tank mode, depleting the roster to laughable talent level and they still ended up at 33 wins, despite a depleted roster and Doncic struggling with a knee injury. If you believe for one second the team was better with Doncic off the floor then you either do not care for actual results over cherry picked meaningless "advanced" stats, watched the Mavs playing or have absolutely no clue about basketball or any combination of those.


I'm glad you edited your post to double down on your emotions. As you can see, clearly not a lie.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#198 » by Sixerscan » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:06 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Riddle me this. If the problem was Luka’s teammates, why did the team play better with him off the court? Even the offense didn’t improve with Luka, and the defense got worse. That directly contradicts what you’re saying. It’s a forgivable offense because he was a rookie, but you’re talking about him like he already demonstrated star impact when that’s just not true.


Except its untrue.


Except it's not.

Mavs in the 2,318 minutes with Luka on the court: -118
Mavs in the 1,618 minutes with Luka off the court: +20

So... Yeah. Like I said, forgivable for a rookie, but he's not as good/impactful as you seem to think. Not yet anyway.


TBF the question isn't whether you would swap JJ Barea for Doncic. Presumably that would be 80% no.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#199 » by Pg81 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:06 am

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Pg81 wrote:Except its completely and utterly a lie. The year before Doncic came team went 24-58. After Doncic came the team was on a trajectory of going for 42 wins, a substantial increase with Dirk having his worst season and the only real capable team mate being a declining DeAndre Jordan. Then the FO decided to go tank mode, depleting the roster to laughable talent level and they still ended up at 33 wins, despite a depleted roster and Doncic struggling with a knee injury. If you believe for one second the team was better with Doncic off the floor then you either do not care for actual results over cherry picked meaningless "advanced" stats, watched the Mavs playing or have absolutely no clue about basketball or any combination of those.


I'm glad you edited your post to double down on your emotions. As you can see, clearly not a lie.


Um yes it is, keep cherry picking a singular meaningless stat instead of actually watching the games.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#200 » by GeorgeMarcus » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:09 am

Pg81 wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Pg81 wrote:Except its completely and utterly a lie. The year before Doncic came team went 24-58. After Doncic came the team was on a trajectory of going for 42 wins, a substantial increase with Dirk having his worst season and the only real capable team mate being a declining DeAndre Jordan. Then the FO decided to go tank mode, depleting the roster to laughable talent level and they still ended up at 33 wins, despite a depleted roster and Doncic struggling with a knee injury. If you believe for one second the team was better with Doncic off the floor then you either do not care for actual results over cherry picked meaningless "advanced" stats, watched the Mavs playing or have absolutely no clue about basketball or any combination of those.


I'm glad you edited your post to double down on your emotions. As you can see, clearly not a lie.


Um yes it is, keep cherry picking a singular meaningless stat instead of actually watching the games.


Haha, crazy how wins and losses are solely based on this "meaningless" stat.
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