Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

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Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could?

Yes
408
84%
No
75
16%
 
Total votes: 483

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#221 » by Bob8 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:21 am

LloydFree wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
durden_tyler wrote:Simmons was exposed in the playoffs. He'll eventually be exposed in the regular season too.

Not a scrub by any means but will never be a superstar. Doncic meanwhile is already the Star A in his team.



You can't use a guy struggling in the playoffs as a negative when the other guy you're comparing him to didn't make the playoffs.

Especially when the guy won't make the playoffs again this year.


It’s not the problem Simmons having bad series or two in playoffs, but his game, which enables opponents to put double teams on Embiid&co. without being punished. Luka has to prove his worth, but he for sure won’t be left alone in playoffs. Luka’s game is just made for this new era of Nba. On the other hand Simmons without a shot is just too limited. Not making a single 3 in 2 years is for sure no coincidence or something that can be changed in the summer. The question is really simple, what si more likely, Simmons developing a jumper from 0 or Luka becoming more efficient and little better shooter? It looks to me that people in this thread in vast majority believe that second opinion is much more likely.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#222 » by Pg81 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:18 am

LloydFree wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
durden_tyler wrote:Simmons was exposed in the playoffs. He'll eventually be exposed in the regular season too.

Not a scrub by any means but will never be a superstar. Doncic meanwhile is already the Star A in his team.



You can't use a guy struggling in the playoffs as a negative when the other guy you're comparing him to didn't make the playoffs.

Especially when the guy won't make the playoffs again this year.


What a disingenuous argument. Simmons was not the reason the 76ers went to the playoffs. You can swap Doncic with Simmons and the 76ers still make it to the playoffs just as well while Simmons now gets exposed harder than anyone else on that Mavs team because he has no answer for opponents clogging the paint and sagging off of him. He cannot even punish fouls because his FT percentage is barely above his FG percentage.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#223 » by stormi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:27 am

Pg81 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You can't use a guy struggling in the playoffs as a negative when the other guy you're comparing him to didn't make the playoffs.

Especially when the guy won't make the playoffs again this year.


What a disingenuous argument. Simmons was not the reason the 76ers went to the playoffs. You can swap Doncic with Simmons and the 76ers still make it to the playoffs just as well while Simmons now gets exposed harder than anyone else on that Mavs team because he has no answer for opponents clogging the paint and sagging off of him. He cannot even punish fouls because his FT percentage is barely above his FG percentage.


Two years ago Simmons was the best player on a team that won 16 games in a row to head into the playoffs while Embiid missed time to heal an eye injury, including securing home court advantage and the 3 seed from the Cavaliers in a duel against Lebron James. He then went and won playoff games as the best player on the team before Embiid came back and helped them blow the Heat out in the remaining two games.



And that's much more impressive than anything Luka did as a freshman.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#224 » by stormi » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:31 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:Ben averaged 14.4/6.4 with 4.8 turnovers on 47.5% shooting, 0% from 3, just under 70% from the foul line against Boston.

That's a horrible series from an offensive standpoint. The fact that people keep trying to defend the ends to his two post seasons so much is probably part of the reason he doesn't feel like his game needs to change or evolve. Plenty of yes men around telling him he's the next LeBron based on his performances right now.


There was an outlier game which does help tank his averages in such a limited sample size. Who are you arguing against anyways, that was probably the worst basketball he's played in his career and most everyone would agree. To average ~15ppg as a pass first second option in his first playoffs and have it be the lowpoint in his career is actually amazing.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#225 » by Pg81 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:35 am

stormi wrote:
Pg81 wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Especially when the guy won't make the playoffs again this year.


What a disingenuous argument. Simmons was not the reason the 76ers went to the playoffs. You can swap Doncic with Simmons and the 76ers still make it to the playoffs just as well while Simmons now gets exposed harder than anyone else on that Mavs team because he has no answer for opponents clogging the paint and sagging off of him. He cannot even punish fouls because his FT percentage is barely above his FG percentage.


Two years ago Simmons was the best player on a team that won 16 games in a row to head into the playoffs while Embiid missed time to heal an eye injury, including securing home court advantage and the 3 seed from the Cavaliers in a duel against Lebron James. He then went and won playoff games as the best player on the team before Embiid came back and helped them blow the Heat out in the remaining two games.



And that's much more impressive than anything Luka did as a freshman.


That had nothing to do with my point of Luka having a team so depleted and devoid of talent after the AS break that no player in the league would have been taking that to the playoffs while Ben even without Embiid still had a solid cast around him covering from the glaring hole that is his weakness which would not have been the case on the Mavs. Fun fact though, they still had a shot, albeit a weak one, at making the playoffs before the Mavs entered tank mode being on a 0.500 pace or better. Lastly I have not a single shred of doubt that Luka could have done the same on the 76ers.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#226 » by KingFox » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:59 am

lmao no. stop it
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#227 » by KingFox » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:00 am

if Simmons gets even half of a jumpshot, it really won't even be close.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#228 » by Bob8 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:41 am

KingFox wrote:if Simmons gets even half of a jumpshot, it really won't even be close.


That’s exactly what people don’t understand, half of a jump shot doesn’t help at all. Nobody is guarding someone, who’s shooting 25% for 3. The most likely scenario for Simmons is, that his efficiency will go down, when he will start taking longer shots and that’s why he’s so hesitant to start shooting. His efficiency is now reasonably high just because he’s not taking shots longer than few feet. Considering how near the basket he’s shooting, his efficiency is pretty low even now. When he starts taking 3s and middle range shots, his efficiency will tumble. And what about his FTs, what is the reason, he’s that bad? I hope you don’t believe how he haven’t have time to develop FT shooting? He’s probably the worst shooter in Nba at the moment and people believe he will become average over night. Really?
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#229 » by Tanks1 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:52 am

Bob8 wrote:
KingFox wrote:if Simmons gets even half of a jumpshot, it really won't even be close.


That’s exactly what people don’t understand, half of a jump shot doesn’t help at all. Nobody is guarding someone, who’s shooting 25% for 3. The most likely scenario for Simmons is, that his efficiency will go down, when he will start taking longer shots and that’s why he’s so hesitant to start shooting. His efficiency is now reasonably high just because he’s not taking shots longer than few feet. Considering how near the basket he’s shooting, his efficiency is pretty low even now. When he starts taking 3s and middle range shots, his efficiency will tumble. And what about his FTs, what is the reason, he’s that bad? I hope you don’t believe how he haven’t have time developed FT shooting? He’s probably the worst shooter in Nba at the moment and people believe he will become average over night. Really?


Amazing you took the time to type all that deep analysis....This thread is now 12 pages long....LOL!!!

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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#230 » by 2020 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:53 am

gh123 wrote:Doncic is younger, cheaper and a better player with a whole continent full of fans.

Ben Simmons has a whole continent (Australia) of fans too... just saying :wink:
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#231 » by gh123 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:15 pm

2020 wrote:
gh123 wrote:Doncic is younger, cheaper and a better player with a whole continent full of fans.

Ben Simmons has a whole continent (Australia) of fans too... just saying :wink:


I keep forgetting he's Australian...
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#232 » by Buzzard » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:55 pm

Canadian6ersFan wrote:This is how completely random fanbases start hating your team's favorite player - when you push and push and push your player down people's throats in a variety of ways (threads, comparisons, etc) whether they're valid or invalid points.

We might actually like the dude, but the nauseating and over-the-top flamboyantly exclamatory aggressiveness of your description makes it unbearable and we ultimately turn against a player whom we either have neutral or positive feelings about.

And then you turn them into negative feelings right away.

It happens to a lot of young players (more recently Tatum, Mitchell etc.).

You have to give the Mavs fans here some props for marketing efforts; they are valiant. I like Luka and have zero doubts he will be a All-Star; but this MVP talk when he will probably miss the playoffs again, is silly as hell.

My answers, I don't think the Mavericks would consider it due to the contract differences. This trade would cost them Doncic and quite a few players. If Doncic and Simmons were both on their rookie deals, I don't think the Sixers do it.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#233 » by SappySkunk » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:59 pm

No, it'd be similar to trading away a young Giannis.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#234 » by Bob8 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:11 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Canadian6ersFan wrote:This is how completely random fanbases start hating your team's favorite player - when you push and push and push your player down people's throats in a variety of ways (threads, comparisons, etc) whether they're valid or invalid points.

We might actually like the dude, but the nauseating and over-the-top flamboyantly exclamatory aggressiveness of your description makes it unbearable and we ultimately turn against a player whom we either have neutral or positive feelings about.

And then you turn them into negative feelings right away.

It happens to a lot of young players (more recently Tatum, Mitchell etc.).

You have to give the Mavs fans here some props for marketing efforts; they are valiant. I like Luka and have zero doubts he will be a All-Star; but this MVP talk when he will probably miss the playoffs again, is silly as hell.

My answers, I don't think the Mavericks would consider it due to the contract differences. This trade would cost them Doncic and quite a few players. If Doncic and Simmons were both on their rookie deals, I don't think the Sixers do it.


May I remind you that voting is 327/59. I kinda doubt that we have that many Mavs fans here. ;)

Simmons with a shot + Embiid is multiple championship team easy. But...
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#235 » by TheAlchemist » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:35 pm

Doncic on the 76ers instead of Simmons, makes them a perennial tittle contender.

Between Embidd and Doncic, then Tobias Harris with Horford, ohhhh boy.

Sad Simmmons sucks balls.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#236 » by Buzzard » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:18 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:
Canadian6ersFan wrote:This is how completely random fanbases start hating your team's favorite player - when you push and push and push your player down people's throats in a variety of ways (threads, comparisons, etc) whether they're valid or invalid points.

We might actually like the dude, but the nauseating and over-the-top flamboyantly exclamatory aggressiveness of your description makes it unbearable and we ultimately turn against a player whom we either have neutral or positive feelings about.

And then you turn them into negative feelings right away.

It happens to a lot of young players (more recently Tatum, Mitchell etc.).

You have to give the Mavs fans here some props for marketing efforts; they are valiant. I like Luka and have zero doubts he will be a All-Star; but this MVP talk when he will probably miss the playoffs again, is silly as hell.

My answers, I don't think the Mavericks would consider it due to the contract differences. This trade would cost them Doncic and quite a few players. If Doncic and Simmons were both on their rookie deals, I don't think the Sixers do it.


May I remind you that voting is 327/59. I kinda doubt that we have that many Mavs fans here. ;)

Simmons with a shot + Embiid is multiple championship team easy. But...

I have a gut feeling most GM's and VP's of NBA teams do not rely on popularity votes to help them make their major trade decisions. This is a popularity vote. Nothing more, nothing less. Perfect example of how skewed voting is: Lebron James has led the All Star Voting ballot for three straight seasons; yet he has not won the MVP votes since 2012-13. Two different votes, two different results, three straight years.

Sixers took the eventual Champs to 7 Games. I really don't think they need Doncic to contend. Simmons and Embiid have only played two seasons together, and they went to the playoffs both years. No one is breaking that up anytime soon. When Luka and Porzingis do something similar you will be just as thrilled about your team.

Take it with a grain of salt. These votes are a fun pastime but they really mean nothing.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#237 » by chefo » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:36 pm

Doncic instead of Simmons on the Sixers last year could have easily meant a title, given the talent the Sixers had--JJ, Joel, Jimmy, Tobias. That team had more talent than the Raptors, and you could argue should have been able to hang with anybody out West. And most importantly, you add Doncic, you can't cheat all game on D.

Yes, Ben is usually a ridiculous defender when locked in, but has now been shown to be a major liability on O when facing a prepared and dedicated defense, which he will his entire post-season career.

Ultimately, given how shifty Doncic is on O, I'd think that a team like the Sixers with him running the show would have been all but impossible to guard and therefore beat.

It doesn't matter--Cuban is not trading his golden boy, especially now that he got him a unicorn to play with.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#238 » by Buzzard » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:50 pm

chefo wrote:Doncic instead of Simmons on the Sixers last year could have easily meant a title, given the talent the Sixers had--JJ,
Ultimately, given how shifty Doncic is on O, I'd think that a team like the Sixers with him running the show would have been all but impossible to guard and therefore beat.

To read how you spin this, Donicic was 2nd only to Harden in scoring, 2nd only to Westbrook in assist, and was more efficient than Curry.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#239 » by Bob8 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:02 pm

Buzzard wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Buzzard wrote:You have to give the Mavs fans here some props for marketing efforts; they are valiant. I like Luka and have zero doubts he will be a All-Star; but this MVP talk when he will probably miss the playoffs again, is silly as hell.

My answers, I don't think the Mavericks would consider it due to the contract differences. This trade would cost them Doncic and quite a few players. If Doncic and Simmons were both on their rookie deals, I don't think the Sixers do it.


May I remind you that voting is 327/59. I kinda doubt that we have that many Mavs fans here. ;)

Simmons with a shot + Embiid is multiple championship team easy. But...

They took the eventual Champs to 7 Games. I really don't think they need Doncic to contend. Simmons and Embiid have only played two seasons together, and they went to the playoffs both years. No one is breaking that up anytime soon. When Luka and Portzingis do something similar you will be just as thrilled about your team.

I have a gut feeling most GM's and VP's of NBA teams do not rely on popularity votes to help them make their major trade decisions. This is a popularity vote. Nothing more, nothing less. Perfect example of how skewed voting is: Lebron James has led the All Star Voting ballot for three straight seasons; yet he has not won the MVP votes since 2012-13. Two different votes, two different results, three straight years.

Take it with a grain of salt. These votes are a fun pastime but they really mean nothing.


They had impressive names, especially for the standards in the east.

Votes don’t mean anything, although Luka’s trade value is higher than Simmons’s in real life too. I mentioned votes only because of your comments how Mavs fans are unrealistic. It seems that vast majority of voters are totally unrealistic, if we go with your logic. But just maybe, Pg, who cannot shoot at all, is just less desirable than Pg with a daddy’s belly. ;) This ceiling stuff was always funny to me. People somehow believe that someone, who is shooting worse than 99.9% of Realgm users, will suddenly become average Nba shooter, but don’t believe that 6’8”, 230 player, can become average Nba athlete.
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Re: Would 76ers swap Simmons for Doncic if they could? 

Post#240 » by arh1109 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm

Before this offseason, they probably would've. They might not spend all that money of Horford and Harris then. And could've gone after more 3&D guys and gotten Harris for less.

Doncic would make Embiid better by taking pressure off him in the half court sets. This would prevent Embiid from getting double teamed as much. And Doncic pick and roll with Embiid would be pretty nasty

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