Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#201 » by Triples333 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:36 pm

Kordic27 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:Have you looked these actual numbers up? I happened to delve into it last week (I can grab the links when I'm on my computer tomorrow, but they are extremely easy to find) and in fact if there was any trend in the relationship between guns per capita and a nations murder rate, it was inversely proportional. USA was an exception as having the most guns per capita, but a much higher murder rate than most 1st world nations. Particular Asian nations with both extremely low guns per capita and murder rates were another group of exceptions. But by and large, the nation's with the most guns per capita had extremely low murder rates, while a majority of those with the least guns per capita had extreme murder rates. I personally think there is an obsession with gun culture here that does feel unhealthy and is clearly unsafe when in the wrong hands, but I found the stats very interesting/telling. It was made abundantly clear that there was much more to it than this common mantra of simply more guns = more killing.

Also bears mentioning that in the USA gun deaths are caused (for the vast majority) by two factors:
#1) Suicide. And nearly all suicides by gun are via a handgun/revolver or shotgun. IE, guns that even under the strictest of firearm restrictions will not be removed. My solution to at least help remedy that issue (specifically for kids) is to impose significant fines + community service and possibly jail time if it was found out that the weapon was owned by somebody else and not properly secured. There needs to be more education in this area of gun management period.
#2) Gang violence. Gang murders are what drive up America's murder rate to be significantly higher than most 1st world nations (super easy to Google these numbers as well, but again I can grab them tomorrow). That, plain and simple, is the issue for everyone to attack head on if the goal is a lower murder rate.

The mass murders draw the big headlines and are a serious/scary issue of course, but they are a drop in the bucket when it comes to the reality of what needs to be addressed in the gun debate (IMO that starting with the education/increased penalties concerning proper/safe storage of your guns, thorough - non same day - background checks, and addressing the massive gang problems we still have). There are ~35-40 gun deaths (non suicide) every day in the US (that is 10,000 - 15,000 people every year for decades). And most of those are inner city killings. That's the state of the USA as it relates to gun violence.


I tried looking up - lots of numbers skewed one way or another to support the POV of whoever was writing whatever article. But the one thing that my brain won’t let me let go of is that the USA, while obviously distinct in a lot of ways, is culturally and value-wise very similar to a lot of countries (Canada, uk, France, Germany, Japan, Australia, etc etc - 1st world countries). They (seem to) have a lot more gun ownership, and (seem to) have a lot more gun violence, despite having a lot of the same factors in play that people blame for gun issues. So I can’t help but think there’s a strong correlation.

I personally think that guns are extremely detrimental (even in suicides, psychologists will tell you that access to means has a massive affect on suicide rate), but I also think that it’s an ingrained part of US culture. It’s bad for you, and I think deep down everyone knows society would be safer with super strict regulations, but just like butter to the French, or beer to the Irish, it’s just not going away because your be better off without them.

The guns per capita numbers were via the most recent Small Arms Survey (2017 I believe). They have been doing this on a large scale for decades via the Graduate Institute of International Relations and Development, based in Geneva Switzerland. It is impossible to be spot on of course, but they have proven the most successful in this field and it is not as if this is some partisan left/right group out there fudging numbers. And to be clear, none of the top nation's in guns per capita are top 25 in gun murder rate. And the USA is the only 1st world nation that is near the average gun murder rate (off the top of my head the USA is around ~5 people per 100K killed, with the world at ~6.5)

Again, why the murder rates in the USA are overboard is due to gangs. Outside of that, the rates would not be out of the norm. That is the issue to tackle.

Where I agree with you is that an excess of guns (specifically easily accessed) is clearly driving up the suicide rates (especially among young men). That's why it's so important to make firearm management/safety a talking point, and to impose the significant penalties on those who fail to do so (eventually, hopefully, people will become vigilant in locking their guns away where only they have access). I'm all for buy-back programs and other means to reduce as many guns as people are willing to give up as well.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#202 » by Antinomy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:01 pm

I’m just gonna keep some comments to myself on this topic. Especially amid the mass shootings that have happened recently. All I’ll say is that our gun laws are a joke & modern firearms should’ve been outlawed years ago.

The 2nd amendment was written when guns took half an hour to reload. It’s time for a change.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#203 » by Antinomy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:13 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
chrismikayla wrote:
karkinos wrote:literally couldn't pay him to get out of the hood mentality.


Just FYI, you don't have to have a "hood mentality" to carry protection. In fact, in today's social climate in the U.S., you'd be foolish not to be prepared to protect yourself.


I don't disagree with this because I guarantee you if minorities began legally arming ourselves en masse the gun laws will be changed overnight.


100%. The lawmakers & gun maniacs will always try to maintain plausible deniability.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#204 » by Antinomy » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:21 pm

chrismikayla wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:Some of you guys really don’t understand the role that race and racism plays in our society. You think race doesn’t belong in the conversation but it really does if you look at our history and recent evidence.

Here’s a brief history. The right to bare arms was rooted in slavery and originated in the south to control slaves.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/407809/

The NRA supported open carry until the Black Panthers started carrying and then they changed their tune fast. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act

Gun laws are not reinforced consistently across whites and blacks, with an anti-black bias. There’s been research on this. Black folks are also way more likely to get killed by police for the same circumstances. Again this is well documented.
https://blogs.plos.org/speakingofmedicine/2018/11/15/report-from-the-2018-apha-meeting-part-1-research-on-racial-disparities-in-gun-violence/

Do I think Mark Madsen would get the same sentence as Telfair? Probably not to be honest.

Now I’m not saying Telfair was smart here. Clearly he made a horrible decision. This was really really dumb. But I’m frankly more concerned about the right wing gun nuts with stockpiles of weapons who tend to be the ones who commit mass murders. And yeah, if these nut jobs were walking around brandishing a weapon in the supermarket, I’d be far more concerned than Telfair having weapons in a car.


It's shocking people are still in denial about racism today, especially after the past couple of years and minorities being attacked and killed. Some people will always be in denial I suppose regardless of what happens...


Maintaining plausible deniability is the only retort that veiled racists have.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#205 » by BallSacBounce » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:09 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:Didn’t he know that only white civilians in red states are allowed to be heavily armed?

Since he's a black guy who owned a gun in a red state without any problem until he went to a blue state obviously your sentence should have read...

"Didn't he know only white guys in blue states are allowed to be heavily armed?"

Then it would have been factually correct and in line with the reason why gun laws are so much more restrictive in blue states.

They get protective armed security details, you get nothing.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#206 » by BallSacBounce » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:11 pm

Bill Bradley wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:Didn’t he know that only white civilians in red states are allowed to be heavily armed?


This is a terrible post. Telfair failed to read up on the rules of conceal and carry. How stupid can one be to not understand the rules and regulations of such a hot topic?


Yeah not smart but it’s nuts that in some states (white) folks could walk around with that stuff in a grocery store.

That is so unbelievably ignorant. Anyone in a red state with open carry is allowed to do it.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#207 » by Showdown » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:21 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Swish1906 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote: The whole premise of 2A is for America's citizens to be able to prevent tyranny from it's own government and be able to hold it in check in essence. If law enforcement/military severely outguns it's citizens, there are no longer checks and balances (we are already to that point in some ways).



:lol: :lol: :lol:

The arguments gun lovers trying to throw out there to keep their toys...always amazing.

Let me quote Jim Jefferies
That the real reason it was written was so that you could form a militia to fight against a tyrannical government. In case the government became a bunch of ****, you could all get your guns and fight back, and that’s why it was written. – [Audience cheering] – Yeah! And that made a hell of a lot of sense when it was just muskets. But you do know the government has drones, right? You get that? You’re bringing guns to a drone fight! If we went back to muskets, I’m all for it! Keep the Second Amendment. If we all have muskets… Muskets are awesome! Every **** should be carrying a musket with him at all times. You know what’s good about the musket? It gives you a lot of time to calm down. Someone calls your wife fat, and you’re like, “**** you, buddy! Ah, you’re not a bad guy. You’re all right.”


I'm not necessarily a gun lover. I'm a history lover who understands why 2A exists. I've studied the major correlation between disarming citizens and unchecked government abuses of power and genocide. We are already seeing our intelligence agencies going rogue with zero accountability with personal vendettas. It's going to continue to be worse. The argument that the government is massively overpowered compared to civilizations is actually a great argument for WHY we need to keep American's armed. Also the same people making fun of this as "muskets" are the same one's screaming "Why do civilians need military machine guns!!?" when someone takes down 20 people and a couple cops. They may have the edge in firepower, but we have 500 million guns in circulation and a TON of people who know how to use them.

It's not that we would win an all out war with the government, but they sure as hell will tread much more lightly knowing that we can form militias than if we were completely defenseless. Again that idiots fallacious argument is exactly WHY we need to keep our firearms.

PS... if you understood war you'd know that no wars are won without foot soldiers. You can have the best air force on the planet, all the drones in the world, yet it will be won on the backs of the soldiers on the front lines. There would be MAJOR casualties to the US government. If they carpet bomb, they destroy their own cities, homes and family's. Drones are great for targeted strikes, but to handle the American militias who live in the same places as these politicians/government officials/LEO's is another matter. Also have to take into account that in this event of all out war, MANY LEO's and military members would side with the civilian militias. You would have an insane level of insubordination. On top of this many of the most feared hackers/IT workers on the planet would get involved against the government to disrupt their tech.

Why you think they wouldn't bombed their own cities if they would really see militias as their enemies ? That's how civil wars start and you can see several of them right now around the world and in all of them army is bombing their own cities. You overlook that loyalty to their country and folllowing orders are values that are most important for soldiers,police officers so number of those that would side with citizens wouldn't be so big. Then you overlook that lot of people in the army/police are those who like to abuse power so they would enjoy if they could kill without being suspended. Also overlook that majority of people with guns are patriotic so it is hard for me to believe that they would oppose to their own goverment because they see those who do that as traitors and people who hate their country. Especially if goverment use fear of some threat as reason why they need to take peoples guns or to come into their house fully armed. We already saw that after Boston bomb attacks where special forces were entering in every house fully equipped and with guns pointed toward those who lived in those houses and people didn't had anything against that. Only time when people would start rebelion would be if they would see president and his party as a traitors and his policies as unamerican and in most cases that means that there would be some racist,nationalistic or religious hate as motivation behind their acts.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#208 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:09 pm

Antinomy wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
chrismikayla wrote:
Just FYI, you don't have to have a "hood mentality" to carry protection. In fact, in today's social climate in the U.S., you'd be foolish not to be prepared to protect yourself.


I don't disagree with this because I guarantee you if minorities began legally arming ourselves en masse the gun laws will be changed overnight.


100%. The lawmakers & gun maniacs will always try to maintain plausible deniability.


Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#209 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:16 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
I don't disagree with this because I guarantee you if minorities began legally arming ourselves en masse the gun laws will be changed overnight.


100%. The lawmakers & gun maniacs will always try to maintain plausible deniability.


Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#210 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:43 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
100%. The lawmakers & gun maniacs will always try to maintain plausible deniability.


Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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What solutions are ignorant? Having to obtain a federal license to purchase firearms? Stop selling guns in Walmart so that they don't get transported across state lines into inner cities? Buyback programs?
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#211 » by Quattro » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:48 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Antinomy wrote:
100%. The lawmakers & gun maniacs will always try to maintain plausible deniability.


Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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I don't see how anyone could say that. If nothing got done after an atrocity like Sandy Hook, it's pretty clear that not everyone cares. I don't accept that there are no solutions to the problem. If there was real political will to get something done, it would have been done long ago. But we all know why we're still here talking about this today. $$$$$$$
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#212 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:50 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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What solutions are ignorant? Having to obtain a federal license to purchase firearms? Stop selling guns in Walmart so that they don't get transported across state lines into inner cities? Buyback programs?
How about you read the last page and see what legislation is being pushed. I posted the quotes and articles. Much better method than feigning ignorance here. Guns already require background checks in most cases. Voluntary gun buyback is fine, but will do nothing based on the couple trials we have seen and common sense. Criminals, murderers, gang members aren't the ones turning in or selling guns to the government. This only disarms responsible people who foolishly think they will be safe, despite that they aren't the ones shooting up schools.

So again how about YOU propose which legislation or changes will work and WHY, and I'll go ahead and explain why someone much smarter than you or I has already tried it and failed.



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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#213 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 pm

Quattro wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Let a group of Black and Latino men walk around in one of these open carry states casually with assault rifles and watch the same people clinging to the 2A scream bloody murder.

These people don't care when children get shot to death in a kindergarten class room, but they'll piss their pants in fear if some brothers come around them with guns behaving in the same manner these open carry NRA lunatics act.
I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app


I don't see how anyone could say that. If nothing got done after an atrocity like Sandy Hook, it's pretty clear that not everyone cares. I don't accept that there are no solutions to the problem. If there was real political will to get something done, it would have been done long ago. But we all know why we're still here talking about this today. $$$$$$$
Sometimes there isn't a solution to a problem. How do we control a black hole? We don't know. There isn't always an answer at this time. The proposed solutions ONLY harm legal, responsible gun owners who aren't committing mass shootings.

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#214 » by Bill Bradley » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:01 pm

BallSacBounce wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
This is a terrible post. Telfair failed to read up on the rules of conceal and carry. How stupid can one be to not understand the rules and regulations of such a hot topic?


Yeah not smart but it’s nuts that in some states (white) folks could walk around with that stuff in a grocery store.

That is so unbelievably ignorant. Anyone in a red state with open carry is allowed to do it.


Except for the black guy in the video, right? I’m sure this is an exception.

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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#215 » by Bayside » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:11 pm

Yes,but a problem is, mass shooters are a sub category in that same pool of people - gun owners. So Comments like there is no solution, penalizes other subsets of gun owners, from a pro gun member, leaves me wanting, and others, more collaboration from gun owners in general. But we continue to live in the fringes.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#216 » by MotownMadness » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:19 pm

I had a fully loaded handgun under my seat once in Detroit and only got 2 years probation and some fines.

I remember reading how harsh NY is with these things and mandatory sentencing. Michigan has a mandatory two year sentence if you have a gun on you while in the act of a felony.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#217 » by JayMKE » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 pm

lock this up
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#218 » by TacoLord » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:33 pm

He claimed he didn’t know they were in the car because he was going through a divorce at the time and had movers put some of his stuff in his truck and drive it up for him from Florida to the city, before he got it back again.

The larger weapon was out of sight in an ottoman in the back of the truck, he said, while the handguns were locked in consoles.


https://nypost.com/2019/08/12/ex-nba-player-sebastian-telfair-gets-over-3-years-on-weapons-charges/

Does anyone honestly believe his side of the story? No responsible gun owner would let "movers" handle their loaded weapons and pack them in a truck in different consoles for them, he had to know they were there. He's not willing to take the least bit of responsibility for his dumb actions, so the jury gave him some time to think about it.

Another article describing his court behavior:

Earlier in the day, as estranged wife Samantha Telfair identified some of the guns found in her hubby’s pick-up, the hoopster repeatedly yawned loudly at the defense table and twisted around to meet eyes with Ciccone.

The ex-athlete was so distracting that Judge Hecht even put his behavior on the record.

“The defendant is turning to the audience and making facial expressions the jury can see,” the judge said, before telling Telfair to stop.

https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/sebastian-telfairs-gun-trial-plays-out-like-a-reality-tv-show/

If you want to win your case, you need to act like an adult in the courtroom. That might not seem "fair" to some, but that's the expectation when dealing with adult problems. It doesn't really matter what race the person is, if they don't take the court proceedings seriously and instead become a distraction, it's easy for a jury to not give them the benefit of the doubt. He probably should have taken a plea deal, since he was clearly guilty, but that didn't work out for him.


Also this tidbit was amusing and sad:

The ex-girlfriend also confessed to taking a couple of his framed basketball jerseys from the onetime athlete’s unit before she allowed the company to auction his other memorabilia off.

“Did you ever sell any of that property for yourself?” his defense attorney Richard Southard asked Scotto.

“Why?” the 26-year-old said. “It’s not worth anything.”
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#219 » by Quattro » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:56 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Quattro wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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I don't see how anyone could say that. If nothing got done after an atrocity like Sandy Hook, it's pretty clear that not everyone cares. I don't accept that there are no solutions to the problem. If there was real political will to get something done, it would have been done long ago. But we all know why we're still here talking about this today. $$$$$$$
Sometimes there isn't a solution to a problem. How do we control a black hole? We don't know. There isn't always an answer at this time. The proposed solutions ONLY harm legal, responsible gun owners who aren't committing mass shootings.

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Here’s the thing though - I couldn’t care less if “responsible gun owners” can’t own AR-15s any more. I don’t think there’s anything in the world that concerns me less than that in fact. If it saves a single life, then it’s worth outlawing the sale of rifles like this. But hey, that’s a pipe dream and we all know it. America will live with mass shootings and gun violence forever.

When literally nothing was done after Sandy Hook, I lost all hope.
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Re: Sebastian Telfair has been sentenced to 3 and a half years in prison for gun possession 

Post#220 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:01 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:I wouldn't go that far. Everyone cares about children getting shot. The problem is the solutions are ignorant and have been proven not to work again and again. This isn't Australia or Britain. We have 400+ million guns in circulation.

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What solutions are ignorant? Having to obtain a federal license to purchase firearms? Stop selling guns in Walmart so that they don't get transported across state lines into inner cities? Buyback programs?
How about you read the last page and see what legislation is being pushed. I posted the quotes and articles. Much better method than feigning ignorance here. Guns already require background checks in most cases. Voluntary gun buyback is fine, but will do nothing based on the couple trials we have seen and common sense. Criminals, murderers, gang members aren't the ones turning in or selling guns to the government. This only disarms responsible people who foolishly think they will be safe, despite that they aren't the ones shooting up schools.

So again how about YOU propose which legislation or changes will work and WHY, and I'll go ahead and explain why someone much smarter than you or I has already tried it and failed.



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I don't have any perfect solution, but I would like to see a substantial numbers of measures being taken to try and curb access to guns going forward. Especially when it comes to guns being purchased in red states and them making their way over to blue states with sensible gun laws and into the hands of inner city violent offenders.

So what is your answer...to do nothing, because anything done will hurt responsible gun owners?
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like

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