The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them

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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#101 » by John Murdoch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:47 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:True. He is a big loss we couldnt pay Horfie over 25 mils a year. Danny wast going to do it. I do agree that we might trade for Sabonis or Turner.

Why would Indy help u guys tho , feels unlikely
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#102 » by Alfred » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:50 pm

Going from Al Horford to Enes Kanter has to be one of the most extreme defensive downgrades of all time.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#103 » by Bad-Thoma » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:00 pm

I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#104 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:06 pm

Bad-Thoma wrote:I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.



If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#105 » by Metallikid » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:08 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:As much as I trust Stevens- and prefer Kemba to Kyrie in that setting- losing Horford was definitely a huge loss. If the Cs manage another top tier defense with Kanter then just give Brad COY already.


Let's say they have a top 5 defense and Brad Stevens is COY but the Celtics lose in Game 7 of the first round. Do you fire him?
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#106 » by Panic610 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:09 pm

stormi wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.



If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out


I doubt fans care that much. After enduring The Process years and really the past 10 years before that, Philly fans just want to win. This is the closest they've been to a championship in my lifetime, outside of the 2001 finals run. But lets be real, they didn't have a real chance at beating that Lakers team 4 times.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#107 » by Metallikid » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:09 pm

John Murdoch wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:True. He is a big loss we couldnt pay Horfie over 25 mils a year. Danny wast going to do it. I do agree that we might trade for Sabonis or Turner.

Why would Indy help u guys tho , feels unlikely


It's extremely unlikely since the Pacers are better than the Celtics
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#108 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:19 pm

Panic610 wrote:
stormi wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.



If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out


I doubt fans care that much. After enduring The Process years and really the past 10 years before that, Philly fans just want to win. This is the closest they've been to a championship in my lifetime, outside of the 2001 finals run. But lets be real, they didn't have a real chance at beating that Lakers team 4 times.


The Horford contract is 4/97 with a $12 million bonus if Philadelphia wins a championship once during those years, so it's totally fair. Also Al is the perfect mentor for Embiid and they'll both be able to allow the other to rest in the era of load management, since either can play significant minutes at the 5.

Embiid's been beating up on Noel, Okafor, Amir Johnson, Monroe types since he came into the NBA. Horford is gonna groom him into an untamable monster.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#109 » by Bad-Thoma » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:43 pm

stormi wrote:
Panic610 wrote:
stormi wrote:

If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out


I doubt fans care that much. After enduring The Process years and really the past 10 years before that, Philly fans just want to win. This is the closest they've been to a championship in my lifetime, outside of the 2001 finals run. But lets be real, they didn't have a real chance at beating that Lakers team 4 times.


The Horford contract is 4/97 with a $12 million bonus if Philadelphia wins a championship once during those years, so it's totally fair. Also Al is the perfect mentor for Embiid and they'll both be able to allow the other to rest in the era of load management, since either can play significant minutes at the 5.

Embiid's been beating up on Noel, Okafor, Amir Johnson, Monroe types since he came into the NBA. Horford is gonna groom him into an untamable monster.


4/97, it goes up if they make the finals then fully guaranteed if they win. It's a good move by Philly as their window is open immediately and Al is still solid, the 4th year is probably what decided him on leaving the Celtics in the first place. When he is 36 he'll be overpaid but if it nets Philly a finals appearance I can't imagine anyone complaining.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#110 » by killmongrel » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:52 pm

If the Celtics had re-signed Horford, does that mean they wouldn't have been able to do a S&T for Kemba? Is that what I'm reading from some posts in this thread?
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#111 » by GeorgeMarcus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:53 pm

Metallikid wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:As much as I trust Stevens- and prefer Kemba to Kyrie in that setting- losing Horford was definitely a huge loss. If the Cs manage another top tier defense with Kanter then just give Brad COY already.


Let's say they have a top 5 defense and Brad Stevens is COY but the Celtics lose in Game 7 of the first round. Do you fire him?


Not a chance imo. Last year he was held to unrealistic expectations because they outperformed expectations by so much the previous year.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#112 » by Metallikid » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm

GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:As much as I trust Stevens- and prefer Kemba to Kyrie in that setting- losing Horford was definitely a huge loss. If the Cs manage another top tier defense with Kanter then just give Brad COY already.


Let's say they have a top 5 defense and Brad Stevens is COY but the Celtics lose in Game 7 of the first round. Do you fire him?


Not a chance imo. Last year he was held to unrealistic expectations because they outperformed expectations by so much the previous year.


Idk man he's had six seasons (will be seven) and he's just been lucky enough to get the non-LeBron side of the bracket the two years they got to the Eastern Conference Finals. I think overall he's underperformed for how much he's touted as one of the best coaches in the league. Remember, Dwane Casey got seven seasons to get over the hump and we all know how that went.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#113 » by bran muffin » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:53 pm

stormi wrote:The Horford contract is 4/97 with a $12 million bonus if Philadelphia wins a championship once during those years, so it's totally fair.

I don't think that's right.

The $109M 4-year contract is partially guaranteed in the 4th season. If the Sixers cut him after the 3rd season, they will have paid him $97M. But then he will have played only 3 years. So you can say this contract is $109M/4 or $97M/3. But you can't say $97M/4.

In the 4th season of that contract, Horford is scheduled to make $26.5M at age 36. It is guaranteed for $14.5M. So if they waive him they will save only $12M. That $14.5M guarantee will become $19.5M if the Sixers reach the NBA Finals at any point during the next 3 years.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#114 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:01 pm

bran muffin wrote:
stormi wrote:The Horford contract is 4/97 with a $12 million bonus if Philadelphia wins a championship once during those years, so it's totally fair.

I don't think that's right.

The $109M 4-year contract is partially guaranteed in the 4th season. If the Sixers cut him after the 3rd season, they will have paid him $97M. But then he will have played only 3 years. So you can say this contract is $109M/4 or $97M/3. But you can't say $97M/4.

In the 4th season of that contract, Horford is scheduled to make $26.5M at age 36. It is guaranteed for $14.5M. So if they waive him they will save only $12M. That $14.5M guarantee will become $19.5M if the Sixers reach the NBA Finals at any point during the next 3 years.


Uhh, no.

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reported Sunday night that Horford has agreed to a four-year, $109 million contract with the Philadelphia 76ers.

Woj also reported, citing league sources, that Boston's "final offer did cover four years but was less in guaranteed money." He detailed the 76ers' offer to Horford includes "$97 million in guaranteed money, and $12 million in bonuses tied to championships."


His contract is essentially $82.5M/3 guaranteed with the fourth year being a $14.5M with the remaining $12M being tied to team success related bonuses.

Horford can't be "cut" after three years, i'm not even sure what that other part is talking about.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-celtics-final-offer-free-agent-al-horford-was-four-year-contract?b
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#115 » by GeorgeMarcus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:12 pm

Metallikid wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
Metallikid wrote:
Let's say they have a top 5 defense and Brad Stevens is COY but the Celtics lose in Game 7 of the first round. Do you fire him?


Not a chance imo. Last year he was held to unrealistic expectations because they outperformed expectations by so much the previous year.


Idk man he's had six seasons (will be seven) and he's just been lucky enough to get the non-LeBron side of the bracket the two years they got to the Eastern Conference Finals. I think overall he's underperformed for how much he's touted as one of the best coaches in the league. Remember, Dwane Casey got seven seasons to get over the hump and we all know how that went.


He won close to 50 games with IT, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Kelly Olynyk lol Then they made the ECF with Rozier/JB/rookie Tatum/Morris/Horford. I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think one season should outweigh every other season that the Celtics have overachieved.

Regarding Casey, I think he would have won with the same roster Nurse had this year. Poor guy...
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#116 » by bran muffin » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:20 pm

stormi wrote:
bran muffin wrote:
stormi wrote:The Horford contract is 4/97 with a $12 million bonus if Philadelphia wins a championship once during those years, so it's totally fair.

I don't think that's right.

The $109M 4-year contract is partially guaranteed in the 4th season. If the Sixers cut him after the 3rd season, they will have paid him $97M. But then he will have played only 3 years. So you can say this contract is $109M/4 or $97M/3. But you can't say $97M/4.

In the 4th season of that contract, Horford is scheduled to make $26.5M at age 36. It is guaranteed for $14.5M. So if they waive him they will save only $12M. That $14.5M guarantee will become $19.5M if the Sixers reach the NBA Finals at any point during the next 3 years.


Uhh, no.

ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski reported Sunday night that Horford has agreed to a four-year, $109 million contract with the Philadelphia 76ers.

Woj also reported, citing league sources, that Boston's "final offer did cover four years but was less in guaranteed money." He detailed the 76ers' offer to Horford includes "$97 million in guaranteed money, and $12 million in bonuses tied to championships."


His contract is essentially $82.5M/3 guaranteed with the fourth year being a $14.5M with the remaining $12M being tied to team success related bonuses.

Horford can't be "cut" after three years, i'm not even sure what that other part is talking about.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/nba-rumors-celtics-final-offer-free-agent-al-horford-was-four-year-contract?b



You're quoting an old report from June before contracts were finalized. Here are the actual details of the final contract.

    Year 1: 28.0M guaranteed
    Year 2: 27.5M guaranteed
    Year 3: 27.0M guaranteed
    Year 4: 14.5M guaranteed + 12.0M non-guaranteed
If the Sixers do not waive Horford, they will pay him $109M for 4 years of service. If the Sixers waive Horford after the 3rd year, they will pay him $97M for 3 years of service. There is no scenario where they pay him $97M for 4 years of service.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#117 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:28 pm

bran muffin wrote:
    Year 1: 28.0M guaranteed
    Year 2: 27.5M guaranteed
    Year 3: 27.0M guaranteed
    Year 4: 14.5M guaranteed + 12.0M non-guaranteed


bran muffin wrote:There is no scenario where they pay him $97M for 4 years of service.


It's such an easy contract to comprehend, idk where you're spiraling.

Add the guarantee's up and you get $97M/4.

The non guarantee'd portion of the money is tied to a championship bonus.

If the Sixers do not win a championship during the tenure of his contact, he will have been paid $97 million over four years.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#118 » by Patsfan1081 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:32 pm

stormi wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.



If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out



So Philly fans were saying this when Boston paid out the ass for him also? Boston will obviously miss his contributions, that being said we have no clue how he is going to tail off. After the first Milly game Al was dissapointing the rest of the series. Playing alongside Embiid will push him to the four, matchups will be even more of a question mark.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#119 » by bran muffin » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:34 pm

stormi wrote:
"Waive" lmaoooooooooooo.

It's $82.5M/3 with it going to $97M/4 if the Sixers pull a Celtics or $109/4 if they pull a Raptors.

Horford's 4th year of his deal is only partially guaranteed.




If the Sixers keep Horford for 4 years, they pay him $109M. If they keep him for 3 years, they pay him $97M.

There is no scenario where the Sixers pay Horford $97M for 4 years of service. So stop pretending like this is a $97M 4-year contract, because it isn't.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#120 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:35 pm

Patsfan1081 wrote:
stormi wrote:
Bad-Thoma wrote:I love Al, he was great for the C's but Philly really payed him. That contract will look great short term as it puts them right there with Mil for the drivers seat in the EC but the last couple years are going to be a bit hard to swallow, especially since more of the back end is guaranteed if Philly does make the finals. His loss will be felt short term by the C's but calling it a disaster is silly, it'd be more of a disaster to commit 4 years/110mil to a guy that doesn't push them over the top in the first season or 2 and will be fading on the back end.



If it's 4/110 the fans will love every single penny Elton payed out



So Philly fans were saying this when Boston paid out the ass for him also? Boston will obviously miss his contributions, that being said we have no clue how he is going to tail off. After the first Milly game Al was dissapointing the rest of the series. Playing alongside Embiid will push him to the four, matchups will be even more of a question mark.


Embiid thrived besides Saric who had the mobility of a 50 year old man. Horford is like a super solider Saric who has played extremely well besides Baynes in the past.

The best thing about Horford and Embiid is that we can stagger their minutes to keep a defensive pillar on the court at all times. Al will get good minutes at both PF & C.

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