The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them

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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#61 » by grindtime22 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:32 pm

Duffman100 wrote:It's not just Horford, but losing Baynes AND morris too.

The Celtics frontcourt is like the Raptors' wings, razor thin. They're relying a LOT on a tatum bounce back year and either Williams or Theis to take a step.


Losing Baynes does hurt, especially with Horford gone is well. I would feel a lot better if he was still in Boston.

The loss of Morris doesn't really bother me. He is one of those give and take type players. Good offensive player, but also a jacker with limited floor awareness. A really, really, really good man defender on ball. He is good option for the Giannis, Simmons, Lebron types. The big wings that control the offense. He has great size and great lateral movement and anticipation to stay in front of those types. Off ball is an entirely different story. He is an absolute disaster that largely negates his man defense. This isn't a guy like Horford or Baynes that is really important to the overall defense.

Overall, he is a pretty good player, but I don't think the loss really hurts Boston that much with the depth on the wing. There was a narrative that he was Boston's most consistent player last year. That was true for the first couple of months and then he completely fell off until the postseason. He was consistently really good and then consistently really bad, so maybe that is what they were talking about.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#62 » by cl2117 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:32 pm

queridiculo wrote:There's a lot to like about the players the Celtics have on their roster.

I love the backcourt pairing for Kemba and Smart in particular, but there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between the other players on the roster.

Finding minutes between Smart, Hayward, Tatum and Brown is going to be a challenge and they'll need all of those guys producing at a high level to make up for the loss of Horford.

I think it's going to be easier than you think minutes wise for those guys. Smart plays the 1 and the 2, Brown 2/3, Tatum 3/4, Hayward can go 2-4.

They're going to have to play WAY smaller than they probably should, it's like the reverse Philly approach, but they've got enough minutes to go around between Kemba/ Smart/ Brown/ Tatum/ Hayward.

It'll be interesting to see how much run the rookies like Romeo Langford and Carsen Edwards get since the more they play, the more it pushes Tatum/Hayward into playing small-ball 4, which is going to be a problem without a defensive presence at the 5.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#63 » by Duffman100 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:47 pm

grindtime22 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:It's not just Horford, but losing Baynes AND morris too.

The Celtics frontcourt is like the Raptors' wings, razor thin. They're relying a LOT on a tatum bounce back year and either Williams or Theis to take a step.


Losing Baynes does hurt, especially with Horford gone is well. I would feel a lot better if he was still in Boston.

The loss of Morris doesn't really bother me. He is one of those give and take type players. Good offensive player, but also a jacker with limited floor awareness. A really, really, really good man defender on ball. He is good option for the Giannis, Simmons, Lebron types. The big wings that control the offense. He has great size and great lateral movement and anticipation to stay in front of those types. Off ball is an entirely different story. He is an absolute disaster that largely negates his man defense. This isn't a guy like Horford or Baynes that is really important to the overall defense.

Overall, he is a pretty good player, but I don't think the loss really hurts Boston that much with the depth on the wing. There was a narrative that he was Boston's most consistent player last year. That was true for the first couple of months and then he completely fell off until the postseason. He was consistently really good and then consistently really bad, so maybe that is what they were talking about.


I'm also not a huge fan of the Morris Twins (especially since they suck outside of basketball).

But I'd rather have Morris than Robert Williams as my backup 4. That's a pretty substantial drop-off in my mind.

If Tatum or Kanter go down, all of a sudden it's super dicey.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#64 » by Johnny Bball » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:14 pm

queridiculo wrote:
The Chief wrote:We still love Al but he's on the back end of his career and we couldn't justify giving him the contract Philly gave him.


Trying to understand the logic here, it's not like there's any immediate answer on the horizon for the Celtics.

What are/were they holding out for that would justify not making the same kind of commitment the Sixers made to him?

Any sort of salary cap flexibility they have is going to be wiped out next year if Brown recaptures some of the production he showed in 2017/18 and a lot of the savings from Haywards expiring deal are going to be wiped out by the offer sheet some team is invariably going to prepare for Tatum that season.

The Celtics may as well have bit the bullet and doubled down on their roster for the next 4 seasons.


And that is why it is an excuse and not a reason. They just slammed their own window shut on themselves by watching Horford walk. Ainge completely failed in the era/iteration. He might get another window, but I don’t see a superstar anywhere in Boston yet. And the mistakes here aren’t just July, they go way past the trade deadline and only Ainge seemingly was unaware of what his players were thinking.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#65 » by grindtime22 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
grindtime22 wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:It's not just Horford, but losing Baynes AND morris too.

The Celtics frontcourt is like the Raptors' wings, razor thin. They're relying a LOT on a tatum bounce back year and either Williams or Theis to take a step.


Losing Baynes does hurt, especially with Horford gone is well. I would feel a lot better if he was still in Boston.

The loss of Morris doesn't really bother me. He is one of those give and take type players. Good offensive player, but also a jacker with limited floor awareness. A really, really, really good man defender on ball. He is good option for the Giannis, Simmons, Lebron types. The big wings that control the offense. He has great size and great lateral movement and anticipation to stay in front of those types. Off ball is an entirely different story. He is an absolute disaster that largely negates his man defense. This isn't a guy like Horford or Baynes that is really important to the overall defense.

Overall, he is a pretty good player, but I don't think the loss really hurts Boston that much with the depth on the wing. There was a narrative that he was Boston's most consistent player last year. That was true for the first couple of months and then he completely fell off until the postseason. He was consistently really good and then consistently really bad, so maybe that is what they were talking about.


I'm also not a huge fan of the Morris Twins (especially since they suck outside of basketball).

But I'd rather have Morris than Robert Williams as my backup 4. That's a pretty substantial drop-off in my mind.

If Tatum or Kanter go down, all of a sudden it's super dicey.


I don't think Williams is every going to play the 4. Morris is essentially just a big wing. His game is far more 3/4 than 4/5. Grant Williams is going to get some of those minutes. Ojeleye is an option. Jaylen can slide down to the 4 if necessary.

The defensive anchor five is the spot that is very dicey and essentially missing. Morris never provided any of that.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#66 » by jason bourne » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:24 pm

I just checked projected wins and the Celtics are down from 49 in 2019 to 45 in 2020. Pacers, Nets, Raptors, Sixers, etc. ahead of them. No wonder GM Danny Ainge was beotchin, beotchin, beotchin about tampering, but Silver didn't do squat.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#67 » by Da ThRONe » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:53 pm

Not sure if OKC will blow up their team, but Steven Adam's is the prefect fit for the Celtics. What it will cost to get him I don't know however he's the prefect center for Kemba Walker.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#68 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:00 pm

They wouldn't have been able to sign Kemba if Horford didn't opt out.

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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#69 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:05 pm

queridiculo wrote:
israelfirst wrote:kanter is a bigger, younger, and better version of horford.


Strange, is that why Kanter is getting paid $10 million over the next two seasons while old man Horford will make $109 over the next four?
Kanter has a player option for second year and I'm sure he'll opt out.

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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#70 » by Buzzard » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:09 pm

It is not good for them in the short term but its time they went all in on their youth. This could be exactly what the doctor ordered.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#71 » by basketballRob » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 pm

queridiculo wrote:There's a lot to like about the players the Celtics have on their roster.

I love the backcourt pairing for Kemba and Smart in particular, but there seems to be quite a bit of overlap between the other players on the roster.

Finding minutes between Smart, Hayward, Tatum and Brown is going to be a challenge and they'll need all of those guys producing at a high level to make up for the loss of Horford and Morris.

Williams is at least two years away from being a reliable option, which leaves Baynes and Kanter to fill the majority of the minutes at center.

If you could combine those two into one player you'd have a heck of center, but as it stands it's going to take a heck of a coaching job to maximize their strengths.

Edit: damn, totally forgot the Celtics traded Baynes :o

Now I am even more curious about how the Celtics are going to deal with their gaping front court holes.
They'll have to make a move for another big guy. As a Magic fan, it seems like we'll have a huge advantage against them, because we're so much bigger.

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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#72 » by niQ » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:16 pm

Do not worry. They have the Almighty Lord of Time.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#73 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:28 pm

Steven Adams is not a fit for the Celtics. Horford was, but he's not getting any younger. Myles Turner would be a fit, but I don't see the Pacers trading him any time soon.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#74 » by Mighty Quinn » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:31 pm

Duffman100 wrote:It's not just Horford, but losing Baynes AND morris too.

The Celtics frontcourt is like the Raptors' wings, razor thin. They're relying a LOT on a tatum bounce back year and either Williams or Theis to take a step.

They could just call up Taco Fall and claim their chip
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#75 » by spikeslovechild » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:58 pm

The Chief wrote:We still love Al but he's on the back end of his career and we couldn't justify giving him the contract Philly gave him.

With Kyrie, Rozier, and Morris gone, the time was right to shift towards building around youth. It was inevitable. Far better that Al left now and got his (likely) last big pay day. Hopefully Kanter fills in nicely, and Tatum and Brown take another step forward.


This is Browns last year before FA right? So he is going to get paid. Tatum has what two years. Kemba is a max guy. With Kemba and Hayward eating 70 million over the next two years and Smart eating 15 million. Horford money isn't going to go anywhere else. Horford wasn't blocking anyone at center either.

It's a L for the celtics pure and simple. Losing Irving really f'ed them. Had he stayed don't think for a moment Ainge would have moved heaven and earth to resign him.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#76 » by Scalabrine » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:40 pm

The Chief wrote:We still love Al but he's on the back end of his career and we couldn't justify giving him the contract Philly gave him.

With Kyrie, Rozier, and Morris gone, the time was right to shift towards building around youth. It was inevitable. Far better that Al left now and got his (likely) last big pay day. Hopefully Kanter fills in nicely, and Tatum and Brown take another step forward.


I agree with you, if it meant losing Irving and not replacing him with Kemba just so they could keep Horford and give him a similar deal to the one he got in Philly then it was a no-brainer. I think the premise of the thread (it being a disaster for them) still holds true, and that Ainge went from being in a great position with the haul he got from the Nets to now not really having much to show for it. His big moves just didn't pan out the way most people projected them to.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#77 » by bisme37 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:46 pm

When Al left my immediate thought was my C's would never win another game again lol. He's been so important to everything we do on both ends the last 3 years. But then it occurred to me that 73 teams have somehow won a title without Al Horford, and no team has ever won a title with Al Horford. So clearly there's a way to be a good team without the guy.

We'll just have to adjust and do some different things, especially on the defensive end. The Celtics had a top ranked defense starting guys like IT, Olynyk and Amir Johnson, so I have faith Brad and the guys will figure it out.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#78 » by jazzfan1971 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:52 pm

israelfirst wrote:kanter is a bigger, younger, and better version of horford.


He is bigger and younger. But, after that you have lost a grip on reality.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#79 » by BIG Game » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:56 pm

Bird4Three wrote:Disaster is a bit dramatic. He was a great player for us, but time marches on.


I think Boston made the correct move, I really wish they would go after Steven Adams.

The fact is that Boston has to pivot, and not paying Big Al big money was the right move.
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Re: The Celtics losing Al Horford was a disaster for them 

Post#80 » by RoyceDa59 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:07 pm

While I agree Horford is a big loss, I also think the Celtics will get better internally, so overall the team this season will be better than the team last season. My prediction for the Celtics:

Kemba will be great, as advertised, and he will provide great leadership, scoring, shooting and distribution.

Tatum will absolutely break out into an all-star this season and lead the team in scoring.

Hayward will have a big bounce back season, and settle in very nicely as the 3rd scorer, dropping 18 ppg.

Celtics defense will be worse, but their offense will be better, this season. Overall team chemistry will be much better.

They'd be better with Horford, but Celtics overall will still be better this season than last season.
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