Was Antoine Walker really that good?

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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#41 » by infinite11285 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:40 pm

Egg Nog wrote:Career 3fg%

32.5% on 4.8 attempts per game
32.9% on 4.1 attempts per game

One of those is Antoine Walker, the other is Kobe Bryant.


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Kalela wrote:Tim Duncan. Good but not great. All the titles he had won at San Antone make people think he is as good as someone like Olujuwon who was a special player.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#42 » by UcanUwill » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:54 pm

poor mans Mirotic?
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#43 » by the sea duck » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:10 pm

Boardbreaker wrote:Basically envision if Draymond decided he no longer wanted to play any d and put up 20 shots a game from the same spots as Steph.


Actually that's not a bad way to think about Antoine. Although he did play good defense from time to time (not Draymond level). Was a good rebounder and was skilled enough to play "point forward". A good facilitator who shot more than he should have. He was a guy who was capable of inspiring his teammates and leading to some degree, but quite emotional to his detriment sometimes. One of those guys who is easy to both overrate and underrate.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#44 » by The_Hater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:11 pm

IgorK wrote:A chubbier Antawn Jamison who did less winning.


Im not sure ‘winning’ was the right direction to go here since Walker started for an NBA champion in Miami while Jamison never once got past the 2nd round.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#45 » by niQ » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:14 pm

He was once asked why he shot so many 3s, and he responded "because there are no 4s."

He should join the BIG3 league.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#46 » by Tor_Raps » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:14 pm

bon wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:Speaks to how great paul peirce was to be able to succeed as much as they did with him as the clear 2nd best player.

Does it? They were only good that one season and after Walker left, the Celtics were terrible. Funny enough the one season he came back (in 05), was the only other time Boston managed to finish above .500 before KG saved the day.


That says more about how crap the rest of the Celtics squad was than it does about Walker being that good. Don't get me wrong, I actually liked Walker in his early days but he was a massive chucker with no conscience.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#47 » by Curmudgeon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:21 pm

Walker was very skilled and had an all-around game. But he didn't take care of himself and took too many ill-advised treys. Here is young Antoine scoring 49 against the Wizards in '98. The clip will also remind folks that Chauncey Billups and Bruce Bowen once played for the Celtics.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#48 » by Dino353 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:24 pm

He would’ve easily had at least two seasons averaging 24-25 ppg. He was not efficient but a very willing shooter, I can’t think of a better perimeter shooting big aside from Davis and Porzingis.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#49 » by The_Hater » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:27 pm

Walker was extremely skilled and talented. He could score all over the court, handle, pass. This package of skills kept scouts and GM’s around the league intrigued for a long time.

Walker was also one of the lowest IQ players of the past 25 years, was rarely in shape and didn’t always give a full effort. He was also very lucky to be playing in the pre-analytics era where a lot of his issues with shot selection and TO’s were overlooked for years.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#50 » by BBgun » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:35 pm

Honestly, there was a brief window of his career in Boston where I think the positive aspects of his game outweighed the negative and he was a net positive overall, but that didn't last too long. It really is a shame because he had a unique skill set that a lot of other big men could only dream of having, but he was content to take the path of least resistance.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#51 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Define "that good"? He was super talented. his actual on court results were pretty marginal at best.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#52 » by SlowPaced » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Markieff Morris enhanced with better passing skills and given green light to chuck as much as he wants is how I'd describe Celtics-era Antoine Walker.

If he played today he'd be wrecked by analytics and would either have to adjust his game or become a role player like Markieff.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#53 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm

He was fairly inefficient but he was pretty skilled and he had some nice ball handle.

he wasn't garbage like folks on here are implying though.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#54 » by infinite11285 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:42 pm

niQ wrote:He was once asked why he shot so many 3s, and he responded "because there are no 4s."


One of the GOAT responses from a shooter :lol:
Kalela wrote:Tim Duncan. Good but not great. All the titles he had won at San Antone make people think he is as good as someone like Olujuwon who was a special player.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#55 » by SA37 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:03 pm

Antoine Walker could definitely play. Similar to a few others in this thread, a poor man’s Carmelo was the first comparison that came to mind. He was very much a tweener: his game was that of a SF but he played as a Pf often because he couldn’t defend SFs or take them off the dribble. He also played at a time when the league was obsessed with point-forwards.

It’s easy to dismiss him as a chucker, but he was a hybrid player that NBA Execs drooled over. The obsession continues with guys who can “play four or 5 positions”, but less so; there has been a realization that, in the end, there are very few players who can even play 2 positions, let alone 4 or 5. Giannis is a great example, same with Ben Simmons.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#56 » by Woody Allen » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:07 pm

Egg Nog wrote:Career 3fg%

32.5% on 4.8 attempts per game
32.9% on 4.1 attempts per game

One of those is Antoine Walker, the other is Kobe Bryant.


Nobody said Kobe was super efficient.
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Antoine Walker 

Post#57 » by Najee12 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:45 pm

I was not a fan of Antoine Walker when he played, but some of these comments sound a little too harsh and not quite representative of how good of a player he was. Walker and Josh Smith were very similar players to me -- 6-foot-8 combo forwards who could score, rebound and were effective in transition. Walker was a better scorer and ball-handler; Smith was more explosive and a much better defender.

On the offensive side, Walker had a good mix of tools. He could score in the paint on both sides of the block, knock down the midrange jumper, pass the ball well for a big forward (he had four seasons where he averaged at least 4.5 assists per game) and earlier in his career actually could run the offense. Walker was a good offensive rebounder earlier in his career (he finished third in the NBA as a rookie in 1996-97 and eighth in 1997-98). His biggest problem was shot selection -- Walker was not a good 3-point shooter but he compounded it by shooting way too many of them and it just killed his shooting numbers.

Here is a video of what a younger Walker was like (scoring a career-high 49 points vs. Washington in his second year):



Personally, I thought Walker developed his bad habits under his former coach Rick Pitino. Pitino was the one who told Walker to start becoming a 3-point shooter and gave him the green light to shoot whenever he wanted. I believe it was under Pitino that Walker started bulking up because Pitino told him to start adding weight and play more power forward.

The added weight started taking away from Walker's movement on the defensive end. This was in the late 1990s and 2000s when there were taller, more post-oriented power forwards, so Walker being 6-8 was somewhat at a disadvantage defensively. The added weight for Walker then turned to bad weight by the end of his first stint with the Celtics and he lost most of his mobility by the time he got to Miami.

As for what he would be in today's NBA, I actually think Walker would be effective (I am assuming I am getting the Boston 1996-2002 version). He was basically a small-ball, ball-handling power forward in his heyday so today's NBA would suit his skills well. He was a much better scorer than Draymond Green, who plays that role (though Walker was nowhere near Green's caliber on the defensive end).

Boston-era Walker would have been a great fit in Houston with James Harden in Daryl Morey's analytics system. Given today's analytics-heavy NBA where there is more data on shot-taking, I can see Walker understanding what would be a good shot and what would be a bad shot. He may not become a better shooter but likely a more judicious one.

Walker was a pretty coachable player if I recall and is a more astute follower of the game than people may suspect. He now makes the sports talk show circuit and once worked for Morgan Stanley advising players about the financial pitfalls of being a professional athlete. He may be a little more adaptable to today's era than people think.
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#58 » by HMFFL » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:04 pm

He added some personality for Boston. He was never afraid to shoot but also wasn't accurate.
With Atlanta he played in the post more and was solid on offense but his defense has never been impressive.

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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#59 » by sixerswillrule » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:16 pm

SA37 wrote:He also played at a time when the league was obsessed with point-forwards.


Pippen
Hill
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Re: Was Antoine Walker really that good? 

Post#60 » by Drygon » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Antoine Walker was never an All-NBA caliber player or like that.

However, I think he's a lot better than people gives him credit for.

Antoine Walker was a solid 2nd option next to Pierce when Celtics reached ECF.

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