Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13

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Who would you rather have for next year

Butler + Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
48
62%
PG13 + Moe Harkless (prolly)
29
38%
 
Total votes: 77

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Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#1 » by Vae Victus » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:14 pm

I'm a bit bored and i'm wondering what board consensus would be on this hypothetical scenario.

Lets say if Butler was willing to be 2nd banana to Kawhi and Kawhi is happy with that arrangements and outright signs with LAC.= to begin the team up.

If Butler comes to LAC for cap (or S&T), lets say Gallo + 2 SRPs for pure cap space goes out, SGA stays, and Kawhi signs for cap as well. Rest of the moves plays out similarly.

C - Zubac, Harrell, Kabengle
PF- Green, Harkless? (this likely wouldnt happen unless S&T shenanigans was involved in getting Butler from PHI)
SF- Kawhi, JRobinson, MacGruder
SG- Butler, Lou Will, Shamet
PG- SGA, PatBev, Mann

Kawhi plays some PF if the other team goes small at that spot. Butler can slide to 3 when that happens. Clips are thin at PF, unless Kabengele steps up in a big way, or Zubac + Harrell both can play 30+ mins without hurting spacing.

As you can see it's basically a Butler + SGA vs PG13 + Harkless? situation. I'm not gonna factor in draft picks as that makes picking the Butler + SGA combo too easy, imo. Let's just say, for next season, which move would be better. Which Clipper team would be stronger?
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#2 » by Mamba Mentality » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:24 pm

Obviously the better scenario is the one in which they retain Shai. Remember this is the same guy that the Clippers weren't willing to trade for AD...amazing what a fear of a Lakers dynasty will make you do.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#3 » by Suppe » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:26 pm

Mamba Mentality wrote:Obviously the better scenario is the one in which they retain Shai. Remember this is the same guy that the Clippers weren't willing to trade for AD...amazing what a fear of a Lakers dynasty will make you do.


Or the luxury of being a well run franchise with options and level headed executives who won't put everything into such an injury prone big.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#4 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:27 pm

If you want a 5 year title window (or closer to one) PG/Harkless. If you want to be better for the next year or two, maybe Butler and SGA. Good question though. I see PG aging much better than Butler and having less injury problems. If the draft assets were factored I take Butler/SGA in a landslide. Just these 4 players though I take PG/Harkless by a small edge.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#5 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:28 pm

This seems kind of obvious. Of course adding Butler for a little more than nothing is better than adding George for 5 picks and a really promising prospect.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#6 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:35 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:If you want a 5 year title window (or closer to one) PG/Harkless. If you want to be better for the next year or two, maybe Butler and SGA. Good question though. I see PG aging much better than Butler and having less injury problems. If the draft assets were factored I take Butler/SGA in a landslide. Just these 4 players though I take PG/Harkless by a small edge.

George has had four surgeries that last two off seasons in addition to the leg injury. I don’t think either player will age without injury problems. George is a better shooter so that helps I guess.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#7 » by Sign5 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:51 pm

Butler/ shai not even close. You get an older maybe 10% less talented George PLUS a stud prospect, cmon.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#8 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:53 pm

Paul George is so much better than Jimmy Butler that it's a no brainer for me, and I love Shai
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#9 » by fianchetto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:57 pm

stormi wrote:Paul George is so much better than Jimmy Butler that it's a no brainer for me, and I love Shai


Agree that George is better, but with less usage the difference might not as noticeable. Also, can George replicate his performance last year? It's hard to say... Kawhi's biggest weakness is playmaking and he's gonna have the ball a lot
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#10 » by stormi » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:04 pm

fianchetto wrote:
stormi wrote:Paul George is so much better than Jimmy Butler that it's a no brainer for me, and I love Shai


Agree that George is better, but with less usage the difference might not as noticeable. Also, can George replicate his performance last year? It's hard to say... Kawhi's biggest weakness is playmaking and he's gonna have the ball a lot


That's the other angle, Butler can run point and be the main facilitator for Kawhi, but then it just about negates the benefit of retaining Shai in the deal, as Butler and Kawhi are going to command the ball a lot.

I can see the offense still running through Lou Will come clutch time for the Clippers
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#11 » by Kobblehead » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:08 pm

Jimmy Butler can't play with other stars. He refuses to space off the ball when it's not his turn. Even if it means sacrificing a stud like SGA, you go with Paul George option and it's a no brainer.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#12 » by fianchetto » Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:49 pm

An intangible in this thread really is Butler's recent lack of chemistry with teammates...FOs looking at the potential of pairing him with a better star were likely worried about that. Of course, if Jimmy is the man that problem isn't really as bad.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#13 » by nickhx2 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 am

if jimmy butler was only 10% less better than paul george then sure you could say you'd rather have SGA + draft picks + jimmy over PG.

but that's not how basketball works. butler is a borderline psychopath who can detonate any lockerroom he sets foot into. and maybe that's great if you build a team all around him but not if you want to pair him with kawhi leonard who's as quiet as they come.

OP i get that you lament the loss of shai and the draft picks but to me this isn't even remotely a close decision.


it's only a thing if butler is either A. way better than leonard or B. his attitude and mentality were toned down by about 10 notches.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#14 » by Prokorov » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:17 am

Vae Victus wrote:I'm a bit bored and i'm wondering what board consensus would be on this hypothetical scenario.

Lets say if Butler was willing to be 2nd banana to Kawhi and Kawhi is happy with that arrangements and outright signs with LAC.= to begin the team up.

If Butler comes to LAC for cap (or S&T), lets say Gallo + 2 SRPs for pure cap space goes out, SGA stays, and Kawhi signs for cap as well. Rest of the moves plays out similarly.

C - Zubac, Harrell, Kabengle
PF- Green, Harkless? (this likely wouldnt happen unless S&T shenanigans was involved in getting Butler from PHI)
SF- Kawhi, JRobinson, MacGruder
SG- Butler, Lou Will, Shamet
PG- SGA, PatBev, Mann

Kawhi plays some PF if the other team goes small at that spot. Butler can slide to 3 when that happens. Clips are thin at PF, unless Kabengele steps up in a big way, or Zubac + Harrell both can play 30+ mins without hurting spacing.

As you can see it's basically a Butler + SGA vs PG13 + Harkless? situation. I'm not gonna factor in draft picks as that makes picking the Butler + SGA combo too easy, imo. Let's just say, for next season, which move would be better. Which Clipper team would be stronger?


this isnt close. butler alone is much better then PG. then add SGA?
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#15 » by Not Suave Rico » Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:33 am

Doesn't seem the Clippers front office wanted anything to do with Butler. I don't believe they even reached out to his people even though he expressed interest in the team just last year.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#16 » by ken6199 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:05 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:If you want a 5 year title window (or closer to one) PG/Harkless. If you want to be better for the next year or two, maybe Butler and SGA. Good question though. I see PG aging much better than Butler and having less injury problems. If the draft assets were factored I take Butler/SGA in a landslide. Just these 4 players though I take PG/Harkless by a small edge.

Disagree on this. The (assumed) slower decline in PG does not offset the ballhandling of SGA who I see will develop into a really solid, above average starting PG. Butler's alpha dog mentality actually will work pretty well in the current LAC culture.

And like the other post said, PG is having his own injury concerns on his shoulder. PG is actually just 8 months younger than Butler. We'll see how he looks after he comes back, I expect a first period of struggling on his shooting touch but hopefully goes back to normal after around Christmas.

Mo Harkless should be a non-factor in this scenario. He doesn't move much weight compared to SGA.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#17 » by TheNewEra » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 am

Not Suave Rico wrote:Doesn't seem the Clippers front office wanted anything to do with Butler. I don't believe they even reached out to his people even though he expressed interest in the team just last year.



I really want to find out more about this someday. Butler expressed major interest in the team around the time he was traded so what happen. How did he go from interest to there being no talk at all about him going to the clippers in free agency?

Did the front office give him the cold shoulder and if they did wtf why ? If Presti doesn’t bite we are assed out with no second star but we were ready to give money to Morris?
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#18 » by Mylie10 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:23 am

stormi wrote:Paul George is so much better than Jimmy Butler that it's a no brainer for me, and I love Shai


I like George way better. And I really like the guys they drafted in Kabengele and Mann who I think is a total diamond in the rough.

I watched Mann completely shut down Ja Morant in the Tourney. I'm talking only when he guarded Ja. Nobody else can stop him. But I see Mann as a sg/SF.

Anyhow, I think they are happy how it worked out and I think George fits the locker room better than Butler would.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#19 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:34 am

ken6199 wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:If you want a 5 year title window (or closer to one) PG/Harkless. If you want to be better for the next year or two, maybe Butler and SGA. Good question though. I see PG aging much better than Butler and having less injury problems. If the draft assets were factored I take Butler/SGA in a landslide. Just these 4 players though I take PG/Harkless by a small edge.

Disagree on this. The (assumed) slower decline in PG does not offset the ballhandling of SGA who I see will develop into a really solid, above average starting PG. Butler's alpha dog mentality actually will work pretty well in the current LAC culture.

And like the other post said, PG is having his own injury concerns on his shoulder. PG is actually just 8 months younger than Butler. We'll see how he looks after he comes back, I expect a first period of struggling on his shooting touch but hopefully goes back to normal after around Christmas.

Mo Harkless should be a non-factor in this scenario. He doesn't move much weight compared to SGA.


I've gone back and forth on it. Here's what it boils down to for me. I believe Butler at best has 2 more years as a star. He's also a headcase. So basically this is... is PG at 31 better than SGA at 23. The answer is a definite yes to me. Especially if picks aren't factored. SGA is flat out going to be a star, not just a really good starter. That being said PG is an All NBA defense, All NBA 1st team caliber guy who is top 5 in MVP finish in multiple years. Just not really comparable to me. I'm also higher on Harkless as a fit who can free roam and guard 4 positions with no pressure than most people.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#20 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:08 am

Mylie10 wrote:
stormi wrote:Paul George is so much better than Jimmy Butler that it's a no brainer for me, and I love Shai


I like George way better. And I really like the guys they drafted in Kabengele and Mann who I think is a total diamond in the rough.

I watched Mann completely shut down Ja Morant in the Tourney. I'm talking only when he guarded Ja. Nobody else can stop him. But I see Mann as a sg/SF.

Anyhow, I think they are happy how it worked out and I think George fits the locker room better than Butler would.


I love what I saw in Mann. How sad is it that he looked lightyears better than our lotto pick Jerome Robinson this summer? He looks like a poor man's Iggy to me. Jack of all trades guy who's going to rebound, pass, block shots, get steals and occasionally score. I didn't know he could play PG like that.

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