Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13

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Who would you rather have for next year

Butler + Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
48
62%
PG13 + Moe Harkless (prolly)
29
38%
 
Total votes: 77

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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#41 » by Capn'O » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:14 pm

Does Kawhi come with Butler?

Therein lies the answer. Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets. I also think George is a better fit with Kawhi than Butler.
BAF Clippers
PG: SGA/Payton/Napier
SG: G. Harris/THT/Korkmaz
SF: Little/KCP/Dekker
PF: Isaac/M. Leonard/Vanderbilt/
C: Nurkic/M. Gasol/Holmes

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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#42 » by Forte IV » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:34 pm

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Forte IV wrote:It's definitely a hard question. Paul George was arguably the best player in basketball for a few weeks there last year. SGA is gonna be a stud. But 4 year max for Butler makes me pick Paul George every day. PG's game is gonna age way better than Jimmys.


Try like 3 months :D . He had a 3 month stretch of 31/8/5 I believe on stupid efficiency.


Oh I knew it was 3 months. Just didnt want someone yelling at me for saying it lol. That's why I went with the couple weeks.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#43 » by Not Suave Rico » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Not only did the Clippers not reach out to Butler, but I've heard nothing of Kawhi reaching out to him either. Kawhi went to Durant, was turned down. Then switched his focus to PG.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#44 » by QRich3 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:27 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
QRich3 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:I like George way better. And I really like the guys they drafted in Kabengele and Mann who I think is a total diamond in the rough.

I watched Mann completely shut down Ja Morant in the Tourney. I'm talking only when he guarded Ja. Nobody else can stop him. But I see Mann as a sg/SF.

Anyhow, I think they are happy how it worked out and I think George fits the locker room better than Butler would.

Mann's looked amazing in summer league too, I worry his offense is way too rough to get playing time in the real NBA, but apparently Jerry West is convinced he'll be a core part of the rotation by year's end. Excited to watch how he evolves.


I see Mann as a glue type of player anyhow. He doesn't need to score to contribute. If he gets some minutes and plays really good reliable defense, then he should carve out a spot.

However based on your depth, he probably spends time in the G league getting playing time. Young guys need to play, and it's not a knock on him to go down there at times.

Yeah I don't need him to score much, just not be enough of a liability to kill the whole team's offense. If he can be a playmaking MKG on offense in his rookie year, I'll be more than happy and he'll merit a place in the rotation. He'll definitely spend time in Ontario at the start of the season though, I guess we'll get a snapshot there.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#45 » by Jordan45822 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:29 pm

I'll take the team where you don't give up 5 1st round picks + SGA and only lose Gallinari.

Butler & Kawhi with SGA and the rest and trade assets for a PF.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#46 » by Hello Brooklyn » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:30 pm

I'd way rather have Butler then give up 5 First Round Picks for PG.

PG is definitely better but I would way rather have flexibility moving forward to get a third star. Clips don't have any of that anymore.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#47 » by rapscity » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:11 pm

Everytime i see the name mann i think about the juwanna mann movie lol
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#48 » by Vae Victus » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:27 pm

Like i said guys, dont count the future FRPs as part of the equation. That makes the decision WAAAAY too easy to choose Butler + SGA. I'm more trying to gauge how much people like PG13 over Butler and whether having SGA bridges the gulf.

Odd though, i thought i heard reports that Kawhi talked to Butler too, but Butler decided to be "da MAN" in MIA.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#49 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:51 pm

JN61 wrote:George last year was heads and shoulders above any year's versio of Butler. Granted some of it is Westbrook's impact but to me it's George any day. I would be more worried of he had leg injury rather than shoulder. So give me George.

Also Butler's attitude is a problem considering his status as a player. He is borderline all-star (not an all-star in West) having superstar attitude and maintenance while George was having superstar year and he is very low maintenance guy and good for locker room in comparison.

Butler's last 2 years in Chicago were every bit as good as George last year.

Calling George a low maintenance guy that's good for a locker room is definitely ignoring the end of his Pacer's tenure.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#50 » by JN61 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 5:56 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
JN61 wrote:George last year was heads and shoulders above any year's versio of Butler. Granted some of it is Westbrook's impact but to me it's George any day. I would be more worried of he had leg injury rather than shoulder. So give me George.

Also Butler's attitude is a problem considering his status as a player. He is borderline all-star (not an all-star in West) having superstar attitude and maintenance while George was having superstar year and he is very low maintenance guy and good for locker room in comparison.

Butler's last 2 years in Chicago were every bit as good as George last year.

Calling George a low maintenance guy that's good for a locker room is definitely ignoring the end of his Pacer's tenure.

How so? They were barely .500 team and offensive numbers of Butler aren't close to George's who also had one of best defensive impact last year.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#51 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:30 pm

JN61 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
JN61 wrote:George last year was heads and shoulders above any year's versio of Butler. Granted some of it is Westbrook's impact but to me it's George any day. I would be more worried of he had leg injury rather than shoulder. So give me George.

Also Butler's attitude is a problem considering his status as a player. He is borderline all-star (not an all-star in West) having superstar attitude and maintenance while George was having superstar year and he is very low maintenance guy and good for locker room in comparison.

Butler's last 2 years in Chicago were every bit as good as George last year.

Calling George a low maintenance guy that's good for a locker room is definitely ignoring the end of his Pacer's tenure.

How so? They were barely .500 team and offensive numbers of Butler aren't close to George's who also had one of best defensive impact last year.

Butler had 13 win shares with a WS/48 of .236 in 2017. Compared to George's 12 and .201 last year.

Butler's offense typically grades out equal or even better than George's due to Butler's superior efficiency (Butler's FTs and less TO's outweighs PG13's advantage from 3).

The Pacers got rid of Paul George and improved as a team. The Bulls and TWolves got rid of Butler and immediately sucked.

George had a great year last year. Will be interesting to see if he can repeat it.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#52 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:32 pm

Shamet
SGA
Butler
Kawhi
Whoever

That team is nasty.

Not that you can't build filthy teams around Kawhi/George though. I think they are the favorite.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#53 » by JN61 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:43 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
JN61 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Butler's last 2 years in Chicago were every bit as good as George last year.

Calling George a low maintenance guy that's good for a locker room is definitely ignoring the end of his Pacer's tenure.

How so? They were barely .500 team and offensive numbers of Butler aren't close to George's who also had one of best defensive impact last year.

Butler had 13 win shares with a WS/48 of .236 in 2017. Compared to George's 12 and .201 last year.

Butler's offense typically grades out equal or even better than George's due to Butler's superior efficiency (Butler's FTs and less TO's outweighs PG13's advantage from 3).

The Pacers got rid of Paul George and improved as a team. The Bulls and TWolves got rid of Butler and immediately sucked.

George had a great year last year. Will be interesting to see if he can repeat it.

Bulls weren't good with Butler to start with. I don't think 2% better ft shooter is as important as 4% better from 3 on 3 times the volume. Also advanced stats you picked are, well pretty much that, hand picked. Ignoring all others that George had significantly better. I wouldn't really call Butler as efficient scorer.. he does keep good care of basketball though.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#54 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:52 pm

JN61 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:
JN61 wrote:How so? They were barely .500 team and offensive numbers of Butler aren't close to George's who also had one of best defensive impact last year.

Butler had 13 win shares with a WS/48 of .236 in 2017. Compared to George's 12 and .201 last year.

Butler's offense typically grades out equal or even better than George's due to Butler's superior efficiency (Butler's FTs and less TO's outweighs PG13's advantage from 3).

The Pacers got rid of Paul George and improved as a team. The Bulls and TWolves got rid of Butler and immediately sucked.

George had a great year last year. Will be interesting to see if he can repeat it.

Bulls weren't good with Butler to start with. I don't think 2% better ft shooter is as important as 4% better from 3 on 3 times the volume. Also advanced stats you picked are, well pretty much that, hand picked. Ignoring all others that George had significantly better. I wouldn't really call Butler as efficient scorer.. he does keep good care of basketball though.

Bulls won 50 with All-Star Butler in 2016. Which is more than George has won with anybody in the last 5 years. The Bulls teams after that were mediocre due to an abhorrent supporting cast.

Peak Butler was higher than George in PER too. Where are these stats that had George significantly better?
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#55 » by JN61 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:14 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
JN61 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Butler had 13 win shares with a WS/48 of .236 in 2017. Compared to George's 12 and .201 last year.

Butler's offense typically grades out equal or even better than George's due to Butler's superior efficiency (Butler's FTs and less TO's outweighs PG13's advantage from 3).

The Pacers got rid of Paul George and improved as a team. The Bulls and TWolves got rid of Butler and immediately sucked.

George had a great year last year. Will be interesting to see if he can repeat it.

Bulls weren't good with Butler to start with. I don't think 2% better ft shooter is as important as 4% better from 3 on 3 times the volume. Also advanced stats you picked are, well pretty much that, hand picked. Ignoring all others that George had significantly better. I wouldn't really call Butler as efficient scorer.. he does keep good care of basketball though.

Bulls won 50 with All-Star Butler in 2016. Which is more than George has won with anybody in the last 5 years. The Bulls teams after that were mediocre due to an abhorrent supporting cast.

Peak Butler was higher than George in PER too. Where are these stats that had George significantly better?

They won 42 games that year.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#56 » by ellobo » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Capn'O wrote:Does Kawhi come with Butler?

Therein lies the answer. Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets. I also think George is a better fit with Kawhi than Butler.


Yes, from all reports signing Kawhi was not necessarily independent of the PG deal. SGA, Gallo and the picks can be seen as the collective price of a for a package of Kawhi and PG.

So in that case the decision was that package deal or no Kawhi, not Butler or PG.
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#57 » by Capn'O » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:10 pm

ellobo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Does Kawhi come with Butler?

Therein lies the answer. Whatever Lola wants, Lola gets. I also think George is a better fit with Kawhi than Butler.


Yes, from all reports signing Kawhi was not necessarily independent of the PG deal. SGA, Gallo and the picks can be seen as the collective price of a for a package of Kawhi and PG.

So in that case the decision was that package deal or no Kawhi, not Butler or PG.


I think you have to think of it that way. OKC's haul was massive.
BAF Clippers
PG: SGA/Payton/Napier
SG: G. Harris/THT/Korkmaz
SF: Little/KCP/Dekker
PF: Isaac/M. Leonard/Vanderbilt/
C: Nurkic/M. Gasol/Holmes

RIP Mags :beer:
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Re: Offseason LAC What If?: Butler/SGA instead of PG13 

Post#58 » by nickhx2 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:22 pm

according to in-depth articles after it was all said and done, ballmer was hesitant until rivers told him as much: it wasn't sga/gallo/5 picks+ for PG, it was sga/gallo/5 picks+ for PG and kawhi.

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