D Wade Closer to Michael Jordan or Paul Pierce

[jumpinmp]

Pierce never approached the stratosphere that Wade visited and Jordan lived in.

[The_Hater]

Prime Wade and prime Pierce are very close.

Prime Wade was much better than prime Pierce, that’s where he gets his biggest advantage when we compare them.

And we know this is true just looking at MVP voting. Wade was in the top 10 voting 7 times with a highest finish of 3rd, Pierce was in the top 10 just once and finished 7th.

That said, I voted that Wade was closer to Pierce than MJ.

[euroleague]

Haven't seen any real argument for Pierce here. Doing the laziest thing (glancing at adv stats) shows that Wade reached some ridiculous heights at his peak peak--he had a VORP of 9.4 in '09-10, a number that only about 5 players have reached in the last decade for any particular season. (No one aside from Lebron did it more than once in the last decade, and Lebron only did it twice).
Pierce never got remotely close to that level in any one season--I'd guess he never finished top-5 in any advanced stat let alone post a true all-time monster couple of season like Wade did. Wade's peak postseason #s also completely destroy Pierce's, with his best 4 years of playoff BPM nearly doubling Pierce's best 4.

Also as I remember it, Wade was basically unguardable and defenses had to just hope they could force him into less convenient spots, while Pierce needed to put a lot more effort into shot creation. Both could get a bucket in crunch time but Wade could make something happen more or less at will at any point in the game.

this is about prime not best per minute stats. and if you look at career VORP, Paul Pierce was better. not sure how you disputed pierce being closer than MJ

[Sign5]

Wade is the 2nd best SG of all time (peak-wise). His actual peak is usual considered top 10-12. A perennial MVP caliber player that would have likely been a top 10 player OAT had he not suffered a rib injury in '05, dislocated shoulder in 07 and worst of all removing his meniscus at college. Compared to Pierce who never had a singular year that you could say he was a top 5 player, seriously?

[ccameron]

Poll results are lol

The question, for everyone getting hung up on the length of Wade's prime, was "Was prime wade closer to Jordan or Pierce level as a player"

The answer is definitely Jordan. Paul Pierce never reached close to Jordan's level, but Wade did.

[BodieB]

Pierce never approached the things Wade was doing at his peak and damn sure didn't sniff Jordan's. Don't be ridiculous. Great player but c'mon.

[matt6715]

Wade and Pierce through their 30-year-old seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/PbVYk

Very, very close.

[zimpy27]

The answer is obviously Jordan if you were around to see peak Wade and read the question.

Peak Wade was closer to peak Jordan than peak Kobe was.

Peak Wade: 30.4 PER, .574 TS%, 8.7 OBPM, 1.8 DBPM, 9.7 VORP
Peak Jordan: 31.6 PER, .605 TS%, 8.9 OBPM, 2 DBPM, 9.8 VORP
Peak Kobe: 28 PER, .559 TS%, 7.3 OBPM, -1.5 DBPM, 6.5 VORP

[Forte IV]

People really forgetting how great prime Wade was. Easily my favorite player all time.

[abark]

prime pierce with 2005 shaq would have won multiple championships

Shaq averaged 18, 10, 1.5, 0.5, 1.5 blocks in the 05-06 playoff run. He was a good player, but Dwade was on another planet. He averaged 28, 6, 6, 2.2, 1.1.

Shaq still had that aura around him, since he was not that far removed from being the most dominant player in the league. But make no mistake that this was around the beginning of his rapid decline.

Pierce has never played at the level Wade did in those playoffs, and I doubt he would have won anything in the same situation.

[Dino353]

Michael Jordan’s competition in the 90’s was Joe Dumars. I’d take prime Wade and Kobe over Jordan, that’s just me though. Jordan would’ve got annihilated if he had to face a prime LeBron,Durant,Kawhi,Curry,Wade,Kobe, and Iverson.

We saw Kobe and Iverson used to toy with him in the late 90’s. Use the old excuse all you want, he wouldn’t have stood out more than LeBron and Durant in this era.

[leolozon]

Both.

Prime is closer to Jordan
Career is closer to Pierce

This is actually a very clear cut answer when using most metrics. It's weird that people are arguing over this.

[reflex35]

I am surprised by voting numbers.
Wade at the moment is 3rd greatest SG of all time (Behind Michael and Kobe)
Pierce place against SF is hard to determine, but there are so many great players in that position that I don't see him being close to being 3rd.
Wade has better career numbers, more chips, his peak is higher and he is absolutely closer to Michael than to Pierce.

[myronbolitar]

When ESPN tee'd up Pierce and asked him - a 10x all-star, NBA Finals MVP - who was better between Wade and him, the outrage that followed was crazy.

Any player roughly in the same range (and yes, they are - Wade's peak was better, but his prime wasn't nearly as long) is gonna give themselves the nod over their competition. Do you think Kyrie thinks he's better than Curry? Of course he does. And he should. These guys are world-class competitors. Kobe said he was better than MJ and LeBron the week before Pierce said what he said, and nobody blinked an eye. So weird.

Dwyane Wade is not Michael Jordan or Bill Russell. He's not above comparison. And the advanced stats reflect that.

Jordan career BPM: 8.1
Jordan career WS/48: .250

Wade career BPM: 4.5
Wade career WS/48: .162

Pierce career BPM: 3.3
Pierce career WS/48: .157

When Pierce was playing with Antoine Walker in the early part of his career, his best run was an ECF appearance. When Wade was playing with Shaq in the early part of his career, he won a championship.

When Wade was playing with LeBron during the latter part of his prime, he won two championships. When Pierce was playing with KG during his late prime and beyond his prime, he won one championship.

Pierce (age 21-29 - pre-KG) - 24/7/4 on .487 eFG%
Wade (age 22-28 - pre-LeBron) - 25/5/7 on .496 eFG%

Pierce (age 30-35 - KG years) - 19/5/4 on .520 eFG%
Wade (age 29-32 - LeBron years) - 22/5/5 on .526 eFG%

Wade's consistent competition for the six guard spots available on all-NBA teams was CP3 and Kobe. Pierce had to deal with Dirk, KG, LeBron, Anthony, Duncan, T-Mac...hence the all-NBA discrepancy.

I totally understand giving Wade the edge, especially for his (pretty short) peak. But these guys are absolutely not miles and miles apart, and Pierce is consistently disrespected on here, Reddit, Twitter, etc.

[Johnny Bball]

I think of this as more of a logarithmic scale.... wayyyyy closer to Pierce.

[JAYZGOAT]

Personally I'm taking Peirce over Wade. More complete player.

[reflex35]

Personally I'm taking Peirce over Wade. More complete player.

Pierce was a "more complete" player and that is true.

But:
Peak Wade could go against anybody. Just look at those finals vs Mavs. He could have gone against MJ and have a chance
Peak Pierce..? Don't know if such a thing exists? He was steady and good "overall"

[DarkAzcura]

When ESPN tee'd up Pierce and asked him - a 10x all-star, NBA Finals MVP - who was better between Wade and him, the outrage that followed was crazy.

Any player roughly in the same range (and yes, they are - Wade's peak was better, but his prime wasn't nearly as long) is gonna give themselves the nod over their competition. Do you think Kyrie thinks he's better than Curry? Of course he does. And he should. These guys are world-class competitors. Kobe said he was better than MJ and LeBron the week before Pierce said what he said, and nobody blinked an eye. So weird.

Dwyane Wade is not Michael Jordan or Bill Russell. He's not above comparison. And the advanced stats reflect that.

Jordan career BPM: 8.1
Jordan career WS/48: .250

Wade career BPM: 4.5
Wade career WS/48: .162

Pierce career BPM: 3.3
Pierce career WS/48: .157

When Pierce was playing with Antoine Walker in the early part of his career, his best run was an ECF appearance. When Wade was playing with Shaq in the early part of his career, he won a championship.

When Wade was playing with LeBron during the latter part of his prime, he won two championships. When Pierce was playing with KG during his late prime and beyond his prime, he won one championship.

Pierce (age 21-29 - pre-KG) - 24/7/4 on .487 eFG%
Wade (age 22-28 - pre-LeBron) - 25/5/7 on .496 eFG%

Pierce (age 30-35 - KG years) - 19/5/4 on .520 eFG%
Wade (age 29-32 - LeBron years) - 22/5/5 on .526 eFG%

Wade's consistent competition for the six guard spots available on all-NBA teams was CP3 and Kobe. Pierce had to deal with Dirk, KG, LeBron, Anthony, Duncan, T-Mac...hence the all-NBA discrepancy.

I totally understand giving Wade the edge, especially for his (pretty short) peak. But these guys are absolutely not miles and miles apart, and Pierce is consistently disrespected on here, Reddit, Twitter, etc.

Best post in this thread.

It’s alright to think Wade was better than Pierce, but if you think the comparison is ridiculous (as in Wade is multiple times better than Pierce), you either didn’t watch Pierce too much or you are too in love with athleticism in judging players.

The people who underrate Pierce on this forum REALLY underrate him.

Personally I'm taking Peirce over Wade. More complete player.

Pierce was a "more complete" player and that is true.

But:
Peak Wade could go against anybody. Just look at those finals vs Mavs. He could have gone against MJ and have a chance
Peak Pierce..? Don't know if such a thing exists? He was steady and good "overall"

Yes, there was a peak Pierce. You probably just didn’t watch him that much because he didn’t have the luxury of playing with all time greats in his prime.

[Feed Your Head]

Prime physical Pierce put up 27/7/5 on really good efficiency, especially for the time. People sleep on him like crazy lol.

Wade had the better peak and the better career, but it is not some massive difference. Myronbolitar laid it out pretty damn good in his post.

[iggymcfrack]

Only sf's better than Pierce are Bird,DrJ,Lebron,KD and Barry , don't know how you can say he is 8-10 best sf of all times ?

Well, you’re missing Kawhi who I’d have #2 overall at that position. Also Scottie Pippen. Better defender, better playoff numbers, over 15x as many MVP shares despite playing almost his whole career with Jordan. That brings it up to 8 which is where I guessed him at without counting players. Sure people could make arguments for Havlicek, Baylor, and Wilkins as well.