FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 | SPAIN are new WORLD CHAMPIONS

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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2841 » by Bob8 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:25 pm

You can spin this however you want, the fact is that USA without superstars is very beatable. The other fact is that USA with the best players is far the best team. That shouldn’t be big surprise knowing that their population is bigger than population of France, Spain, Argentina, Australia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, Greece, Germany... together.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2842 » by NZB2323 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:30 pm

I want to start off by saying I'm a Bulls fan.

My takeaway is that the Jazz are a legit contender and that Mitchell and Gobert were ranked too low in Realgm's player rankings. They were clearly the 2 best players in the game today.

Gobert put up 21 and 16 shooting 6-12 from the field and 9-10 from the free throw line and he anchored the defense that held America to 79 points.

Mitchell was the only American who scored in double digits...he put up 29, 6, and 4 while shooting 9-17 on 2s, 3-6 on 3s, and 2-2 from the free throw line.

These two guys are going to look better this year because they're improving and they'll have Mike Conley and Bojan Bogdanovic to open things up.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2843 » by Bob8 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:34 pm

NZB2323 wrote:I want to start off by saying I'm a Bulls fan.

My takeaway is that the Jazz are a legit contender and that Mitchell and Gobert were ranked too low in Realgm's player rankings. They were clearly the 2 best players in the game today.

Gobert put up 21 and 16 shooting 6-12 from the field and 9-10 from the free throw line and he anchored the defense that held America to 79 points.

Mitchell was the only American who scored in double digits...he put up 29, 6, and 4 while shooting 9-17 on 2s, 3-6 on 3s, and 2-2 from the free throw line.

These two guys are going to look better this year because they're improving and they'll have Mike Conley and Bogdan Bogdanovic to open things up.


Bojan ;)
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2844 » by GREY 1769 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:41 pm

limbo wrote:Obviously the US can field a more talented cast if they wanted and dominate everybody, but that's neither here or there, because everybody knows the US has the most talented players in the World.

The question here is, if the USA don't overwhelm opponents via all-star extreme talent disparity, why do they play below their level despite still bringing a talented cast. Kemba, Mitchell, Smart, Middleton, Turner, Brown are still talented players. Why can't they figure out how to play togheter and instead are getting exposed by Cedi Osman and Ilyasova?

I think it's because the 'we' keeps changing not only from tournament to tournament, but from mini-camp to mini-camp in preparation for any tournament. It's easy to lump everything under "USA" but in reality getting any group of players to come together and look cohesive in six weeks - something no other team had to deal with - let alone a group that was challenged in terms of roster construction because of factors mentioned was going to be an uphill battle.

This is a transition team for international play. It was always going to be a bit more difficult this time around, all the more so with coaching completely different groups of players at each stage approaching the tournament, so credit to the guys who took on shouldering the responsibility and the risk that came with it. The deeper issue is developing a culture for younger generations coming up to value international play beyond Olympics. International players already do so precisely because they grow up in a culture that does just that; USA is kind of unique in being outside of it. The catching up isn't in terms of talent, I think - though it is great to see the game grow overall - it is in getting future USA players to better appreciate and want to play for their country.

Some flat out dropped out because they didn't want to look bad after others dropped out, and said so publicly. In the future, hopefully players realize how having that kind of attitude is more embarrassing than representing your country and taking on the risk of actually playing for it.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2845 » by gundysmullet » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:19 pm

Jellybeans wrote:Fcking love Lessorts haircut :D

Those. Come on man, my daughter is in second grade and even she knows the difference between does and those.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2846 » by Young gun 6 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:23 pm

Go Aussies !!!
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2847 » by gundysmullet » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:27 pm

seorang wrote:
yeahM8 wrote:aussie wagon going to fill up quick.

whos on?

lez go strayaaaaa

OZZIE OZZIE OZZIE OI OI OI

I have literally told you like five times it’s Aussie, the people from Australia are Aussies. The country is nicknamed Oz. Sheesh!
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2848 » by Catchall » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:31 pm

limbo wrote:Obviously the US can field a more talented cast if they wanted and dominate everybody, but that's neither here or there, because everybody knows the US has the most talented players in the World.

The question here is, if the USA don't overwhelm opponents via all-star extreme talent disparity, why do they play below their level despite still bringing a talented cast. Kemba, Mitchell, Smart, Middleton, Turner, Brown are still talented players. Why can't they figure out how to play togheter and instead are getting exposed by Cedi Osman and Ilyasova?


Because the roster they brought couldn't consistently rebound the ball. The team is made up of guards and wings. Lopez and Plumlee were hardly playable.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2849 » by Sark » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 pm

Ok, who are the 205 people that voted for Serbia. Show yourselves.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2850 » by Pipp33 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:56 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
kosmonauts wrote:
Jzh wrote:
Exactly this. i'm French and I couldn't careless we won that game. It will be meaningful if they score the gold but the world cup miss too much talent to mean anything.

The only upside is the direct spot to the Olympics where hopefully we'll face real team USA like in 2000.


This loss pretty much guarantees that we will see US super-star team forTokio and hopefully next WC as well.


Meh ... Americans don't care about the FIBA WC let alone FIBA. I'm not sure what's going to make that change, certainly not FIBA if they continue to schedule tourneys and qualifiers during or so close to the start of the NBA season.


On no! Can't believe how inconsiderate FIBA is, with scheduling something so close to the start of the NBA....which is still well over a month away. Other leagues around the world also start soon and the best countries have players in the NBA too. Now that the USA couldn't make the SF, all of a sudden it doesn't matter. Every other country takes the World Cup seriously. The rest of the world don't care which players turn up, they just want to represent their countries at play hard to win.

The USA's biggest issue is the majority of their players cannot adjust to the different style of basketball that FIBA is. Kemba Walker will still be great in the NBA, because he plays that game really well, but he was lost out there tonight, as ISO ball will not work in FIBA.

NBA talent does not mean success in FIBA. If you have not played FIBA basketball previously, there is a big adjustment to make. Guards like Mills/De Colo/ Fournier/Rubio look like superstars in FIBA games, because they understand how to play that style of basketball. Yet we have people saying Kemba Walker is too small - Mills is about the same size and is in Top 5 for player of the tournament and some NBA fans think he's overpaid at Spurs making $11 mil per year.....
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2851 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:20 pm

Pipp33 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
kosmonauts wrote:
This loss pretty much guarantees that we will see US super-star team forTokio and hopefully next WC as well.


Meh ... Americans don't care about the FIBA WC let alone FIBA. I'm not sure what's going to make that change, certainly not FIBA if they continue to schedule tourneys and qualifiers during or so close to the start of the NBA season.


On no! Can't believe how inconsiderate FIBA is, with scheduling something so close to the start of the NBA....which is still well over a month away. Other leagues around the world also start soon and the best countries have players in the NBA too. Now that the USA couldn't make the SF, all of a sudden it doesn't matter. Every other country takes the World Cup seriously. The rest of the world don't care which players turn up, they just want to represent their countries at play hard to win.

The USA's biggest issue is the majority of their players cannot adjust to the different style of basketball that FIBA is. Kemba Walker will still be great in the NBA, because he plays that game really well, but he was lost out there tonight, as ISO ball will not work in FIBA.

NBA talent does not mean success in FIBA. If you have not played FIBA basketball previously, there is a big adjustment to make. Guards like Mills/De Colo/ Fournier/Rubio look like superstars in FIBA games, because they understand how to play that style of basketball. Yet we have people saying Kemba Walker is too small - Mills is about the same size and is in Top 5 for player of the tournament and some NBA fans think he's overpaid at Spurs making $11 mil per year.....


Sorry, go check the TV ratings if you don't believe how little most Americans care about the FIBA WC.

And while experience in the format matters a lot, talent still matters more. Feel free to compare the 2014 roster to the 2019 roster. The 2014 team suffered a major drop-off in talent and experience from the 2012 Olympic team and still won it all; but their drop-off was nothing like the 2019 team.

Jerry Colangelo mentioned the problems FIBA's schedule changes were causing the team well over a month ago. Heck, team USA had to qualify with a friggen G-League team because FIBA decided previous winners should no longer get an exemption and they scheduled the Americas tourney right in the middle of the NBA season. Why do you think FIBA made these changes?

As for Patty, we don't judge or pay players based on what they do in FIBA. The fact the Spurs were -1.5 points per 100 when Patty was off the floor speaks loudly about his value and/or the Spur's lack of PG depth after Murray went down with injury. We'll have to see on that.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2852 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:18 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Pipp33 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Meh ... Americans don't care about the FIBA WC let alone FIBA. I'm not sure what's going to make that change, certainly not FIBA if they continue to schedule tourneys and qualifiers during or so close to the start of the NBA season.


On no! Can't believe how inconsiderate FIBA is, with scheduling something so close to the start of the NBA....which is still well over a month away. Other leagues around the world also start soon and the best countries have players in the NBA too. Now that the USA couldn't make the SF, all of a sudden it doesn't matter. Every other country takes the World Cup seriously. The rest of the world don't care which players turn up, they just want to represent their countries at play hard to win.

The USA's biggest issue is the majority of their players cannot adjust to the different style of basketball that FIBA is. Kemba Walker will still be great in the NBA, because he plays that game really well, but he was lost out there tonight, as ISO ball will not work in FIBA.

NBA talent does not mean success in FIBA. If you have not played FIBA basketball previously, there is a big adjustment to make. Guards like Mills/De Colo/ Fournier/Rubio look like superstars in FIBA games, because they understand how to play that style of basketball. Yet we have people saying Kemba Walker is too small - Mills is about the same size and is in Top 5 for player of the tournament and some NBA fans think he's overpaid at Spurs making $11 mil per year.....


Sorry, go check the TV ratings if you don't believe how little most Americans care about the FIBA WC.

And while experience in the format matters a lot, talent still matters more. Feel free to compare the 2014 roster to the 2019 roster. The 2014 team suffered a major drop-off in talent and experience from the 2012 Olympic team and still won it all; but their drop-off was nothing like the 2019 team.

Jerry Colangelo mentioned the problems FIBA's schedule changes were causing the team well over a month ago. Heck, team USA had to qualify with a friggen G-League team because FIBA decided previous winners should no longer get an exemption and they scheduled the Americas tourney right in the middle of the NBA season. Why do you think FIBA made these changes?

As for Patty, we don't judge or pay players based on what they do in FIBA. The fact the Spurs were -1.5 points per 100 when Patty was off the floor speaks loudly about his value and/or the Spur's lack of PG depth after Murray went down with injury. We'll have to see on that.


So why Fiba made that changes? Before you answer that, may I remind you that Slovenia( Eurobasket champion), Croatia and Latvia didn’t even qualify because of this changes. Mostly All European players are from Nba or Euroleague, which accidentally starts in 3 weeks. And what about Olympics? USA is already qualified. All European countries except France and Spain, who are in semis, will have to qualify in pre-olympic tournaments. Only 4 places left. It will be bloody. So please stop crying about USA, which is in much better position.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2853 » by Pipp33 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:35 am

JonFromVA wrote:
Pipp33 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Meh ... Americans don't care about the FIBA WC let alone FIBA. I'm not sure what's going to make that change, certainly not FIBA if they continue to schedule tourneys and qualifiers during or so close to the start of the NBA season.


On no! Can't believe how inconsiderate FIBA is, with scheduling something so close to the start of the NBA....which is still well over a month away. Other leagues around the world also start soon and the best countries have players in the NBA too. Now that the USA couldn't make the SF, all of a sudden it doesn't matter. Every other country takes the World Cup seriously. The rest of the world don't care which players turn up, they just want to represent their countries at play hard to win.

The USA's biggest issue is the majority of their players cannot adjust to the different style of basketball that FIBA is. Kemba Walker will still be great in the NBA, because he plays that game really well, but he was lost out there tonight, as ISO ball will not work in FIBA.

NBA talent does not mean success in FIBA. If you have not played FIBA basketball previously, there is a big adjustment to make. Guards like Mills/De Colo/ Fournier/Rubio look like superstars in FIBA games, because they understand how to play that style of basketball. Yet we have people saying Kemba Walker is too small - Mills is about the same size and is in Top 5 for player of the tournament and some NBA fans think he's overpaid at Spurs making $11 mil per year.....


Sorry, go check the TV ratings if you don't believe how little most Americans care about the FIBA WC.

And while experience in the format matters a lot, talent still matters more. Feel free to compare the 2014 roster to the 2019 roster. The 2014 team suffered a major drop-off in talent and experience from the 2012 Olympic team and still won it all; but their drop-off was nothing like the 2019 team.

Jerry Colangelo mentioned the problems FIBA's schedule changes were causing the team well over a month ago. Heck, team USA had to qualify with a friggen G-League team because FIBA decided previous winners should no longer get an exemption and they scheduled the Americas tourney right in the middle of the NBA season. Why do you think FIBA made these changes?

As for Patty, we don't judge or pay players based on what they do in FIBA. The fact the Spurs were -1.5 points per 100 when Patty was off the floor speaks loudly about his value and/or the Spur's lack of PG depth after Murray went down with injury. We'll have to see on that.


The rest of the world doesn't care if the USA doesn't watch the World Cup. We all know that unless you think you can win, you don't care. The disrespect shown by the US media outlets during this is hilarious. They are making assumptions off NBA play and no idea of the quality of guys playing in the Euro leagues.

The USA were not the only ones who had to qualify without players. Every country was missing their best players, and to qualify out of Eurpoe is a lot harder than through Americas or Asia. But keep making excuses with not even making the top 4.

We will see when the Olympics come around, but if you think just because KD/LBJ/AD/Steph/Harden turn up to play, you'll stroll through to the Gold medal, you're wrong. International basketball is DEEP now. Yes, there's always been a few very good teams, Spain/Argentina/Lithuania/Yugoslavia, but now there's France, Australia, Canada, Greece, Czechs and more who all have quality teas and every game will be tough. Plus, Harden will be called for a travel every time he does his 5 step step-back shots in FIBA, because they actually care about travels
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2854 » by DaPessimist » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:46 am

Good luck getting USA players to play FIBA ball now. We gonna go from our E Squad to our Z squad next tourney. :lol:
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2855 » by Sphynx » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:55 am

Australia continue to fly under the radar in this thread.


They are the 2nd best team in the world imo and probably second favorite to the USA for the Olympics when you consider they are probably missing maybe 3 starters and 5 of their best 10 players in this tournament.

Baynes becoming a stretch 5 would open the floor up considerably for Simmons to play the P&R and high post.

Even then, Bolden would probably almost start over Baynes.

Broekhoff is the other that will make them even better, he's Ingles-lite on the perimeter and an excellent player at this level.

Then there's Exum, Maker, Green to add to the bench.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2856 » by notericjr » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:17 am

I like Bolden. But i wouldn't have him starting over Baynes. Not yet at least, and maybe not even in time for the Olympics.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2857 » by Luvthegame64 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:24 am

Bolden would struggle to see court time, let alone make the starting 5. Baynes, Landale and Bogut are all ahead of him.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2858 » by dorkestra » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:29 am

I wish Cameroon was playing with Embiid/Siakam/Mbah a Moute. The final four should be good now that the Celtics lost.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2859 » by TheBallsDeeper » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:29 am

limbo wrote:Obviously the US can field a more talented cast if they wanted and dominate everybody, but that's neither here or there, because everybody knows the US has the most talented players in the World.

The question here is, if the USA don't overwhelm opponents via all-star extreme talent disparity, why do they play below their level despite still bringing a talented cast. Kemba, Mitchell, Smart, Middleton, Turner, Brown are still talented players. Why can't they figure out how to play togheter and instead are getting exposed by Cedi Osman and Ilyasova?

I think the biggest problem is the type of players that they are picking.

USA seem to think if you throw a heap of athletic players together they will overwhelm whoever they play. Problem is many of these players are also low BBIQ. Players like Mitchell Walker Brown are not high BBIQ players, so I think it takes them much longer to gell together as a team, and the rules changes such as the defensive 3 seconds takes away the athletic advantage. It's why players like Ingles, Mills and Bogut look so much better under these rules.

Replace any of the USA guards with a high BBIQ player like Malcolm Brogdon and they would be a much better team.
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Re: FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 

Post#2860 » by Hroz » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:29 am

Sphynx wrote:Australia continue to fly under the radar in this thread.


They are the 2nd best team in the world imo and probably second favorite to the USA for the Olympics when you consider they are probably missing maybe 3 starters and 5 of their best 10 players in this tournament.

Baynes becoming a stretch 5 would open the floor up considerably for Simmons to play the P&R and high post.

Even then, Bolden would probably almost start over Baynes.

Broekhoff is the other that will make them even better, he's Ingles-lite on the perimeter and an excellent player at this level.

Then there's Exum, Maker, Green to add to the bench.


Most likely if you were making the Australia team it probably comes from these 15 players (though Adel didn't even make this team but I think that was a mistake) (like cutting Creek initially has proved to be a mistake)

Baynes Maker Bogut
Simmons Landale Bolden
Ingles Cooks Adel
Mills Broekhoff Creek
Delladova Exum Goulding

Mills had been playing SG for this tournament and has thrived. (with Delly or Goulding taking up PG duties)
Doubt we move him even for Broekhoff.

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