FIBA WORLD CUP 2019 | SPAIN are new WORLD CHAMPIONS

[BUANIX]

I am Spanish and I have 39 years old . The best league in Europe and then ,the second best league in the world is the Euroleague

But , the second best national league is the ACB


Where is the discussion ?


For us ( and I would said in Europe ) the day by day is the national league where our euroleague representatives also play. during the hole year and the playoffs. ( with much more games than in Europe)The euroleague even with some fixed equipments is still the target of the prizes for the job done at home. It is an international league and yes , the feeling is similar to the champions league ( tell me when Barcelona or madrid have not played in the champions , maybe last time was called European Cup and the Basket euroleague did not exist yet)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Many more games in Acb???

Yes

Even with the change in 2016 the winner of the ACB can play 45 games and the winner of the euroleague 39

That’s not include the Spanish national cup that is part of the ACB ( it is played by the 8 first teams in the middle of the league )


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

[Bob8]

I am Spanish and I have 39 years old . The best league in Europe and then ,the second best league in the world is the Euroleague

But , the second best national league is the ACB


Where is the discussion ?


For us ( and I would said in Europe ) the day by day is the national league where our euroleague representatives also play. during the hole year and the playoffs. ( with much more games than in Europe)The euroleague even with some fixed equipments is still the target of the prizes for the job done at home. It is an international league and yes , the feeling is similar to the champions league ( tell me when Barcelona or madrid have not played in the champions , maybe last time was called European Cup and the Basket euroleague did not exist yet)

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Many more games in Acb???

Yes

Even with the change in 2016 the winner of the ACB can play 45 games and the winner of the euroleague 39

That’s not include the Spanish national cup that is part of the ACB ( it is played by the 8 first teams in the middle of the league )


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Possible 45 vs. possible 39 games means many games more? In Euroleague is max. 41 games btw. and more importantly 37 minimum for all teams, who qualify to the playoffs. Minimum for all qualifiers in Acb playoffs is 36. Real, who has won Acb, has played 43 games this year. Meaning that number of games is almost the same in Acb and Euroleague, especially with regular season being exactly the same. (Copa del Rey is only 3 games, even if you goes to the final.)

It’s around 40 games in Euroleague and Acb. Interesting enough that Champions league in football, which you say is more similar to Euroleague , has only 13 games max, if you play the final.

[Showdown]

Euroleague first have regular season, then PO and then Final Four so it is different than every other league and more similar to FIBA tournaments because leagues have RS and then PO or Final Four but don't have both as a different stages of the tournament.

[Bob8]

Euroleague first have regular season, then PO and then Final Four so it is different than every other league and more similar to FIBA tournaments because leagues have RS and then PO or Final Four but don't have both as a different stages of the tournament.

Fiba tournaments, don’t have league system, teams don’t play every week, number of games is much smaller.

Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, only difference is that Euroleague has F4 in the end and Acb series.

Acb vs Euroleague,

Acb, league with 18 clubs.
EuroLeague, league with 18 clubs.

Acb, 34 games regular season.
Euroleague, 34 games regular season.

Acb, best 8 after regular season goes to playoffs.
Euroleague, best 8 after regular season gies to playoff.

Everything exactly the same till 1st round of playoffs.

Acb, 1. round of playoffs, best of 3 series.
Euroleague, 1. round of playoffs, best of 5 series.

Only difference is how they find new champions.

Acb, best of 5 series.
Euroleague, F4.

We can see that Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, with only difference in the end. On the other hand Fiba tournaments are totally different. Groups instead of league system. All teams not playing against each other. Which means around 10 games total instead of 40 games.

[Showdown]

Euroleague first have regular season, then PO and then Final Four so it is different than every other league and more similar to FIBA tournaments because leagues have RS and then PO or Final Four but don't have both as a different stages of the tournament.

Fiba tournaments, don’t have league system, teams don’t play every week, number of games is much smaller.

Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, only difference is that Euroleague has F4 in the end and Acb series.

Acb vs Euroleague,

Acb, league with 18 clubs.
EuroLeague, league with 18 clubs.

Acb, 34 games regular season.
Euroleague, 34 games regular season.

Acb, best 8 after regular season goes to playoffs.
Euroleague, best 8 after regular season gies to playoff.

Everything exactly the same till 1st round of playoffs.

Acb, 1. round of playoffs, best of 3 series.
Euroleague, 1. round of playoffs, best of 5 series.

Only difference is how they find new champions.

Acb, best of 5 series.
Euroleague, F4.

We can see that Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, with only difference in the end. On the other hand Fiba tournaments are totally different. Groups instead of league system. All teams not playing against each other. Which means around 10 games total instead of 40 games.

Final Four after PO is a big difference because there is no league that have both while in FIBA tournaments you have group stage, second round and then elimination tournament and system in group stage's is similar to league system because seeding and tiebreakers determine opponent in next stage.

[Bob8]

Euroleague first have regular season, then PO and then Final Four so it is different than every other league and more similar to FIBA tournaments because leagues have RS and then PO or Final Four but don't have both as a different stages of the tournament.

Fiba tournaments, don’t have league system, teams don’t play every week, number of games is much smaller.

Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, only difference is that Euroleague has F4 in the end and Acb series.

Acb vs Euroleague,

Acb, league with 18 clubs.
EuroLeague, league with 18 clubs.

Acb, 34 games regular season.
Euroleague, 34 games regular season.

Acb, best 8 after regular season goes to playoffs.
Euroleague, best 8 after regular season gies to playoff.

Everything exactly the same till 1st round of playoffs.

Acb, 1. round of playoffs, best of 3 series.
Euroleague, 1. round of playoffs, best of 5 series.

Only difference is how they find new champions.

Acb, best of 5 series.
Euroleague, F4.

We can see that Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, with only difference in the end. On the other hand Fiba tournaments are totally different. Groups instead of league system. All teams not playing against each other. Which means around 10 games total instead of 40 games.

Final Four after PO is a big difference because there is no league that have both while in FIBA tournaments you have group stage, second round and then elimination tournament and system in group stage's is similar to league system because seeding and tiebreakers determine opponent in next stage.

So you’re saying that 2 leagues, both having 18 clubs, identical regular season, same number of games in regular season, 34, identical criteria for qualification in playoffs, best 8 clubs, both having series in first round on playoffs...are totally different, because the winner in one league is decided by series and in other by final 4? But somehow Euroleague is more similar to Fiba tournaments, with group stage and knockout phase. All teams not playing against each other, no league format, team playing only around 10 games instead of 40 like in Euroleague.

Acb is from October till June identical to Euroleague. Only difference is in last 3 weeks of competition. But that doesn’t change the fact that EuroLeague is a league not a tournament, which has totally different format from day one till the end.

Btw. VTB league has regular season, playoffs and F4.

[minami]

How do people feel about Gabriel Deck as an NBA player?

Deck played a hell of a game in the Final and I should have mentioned it. If only by the eye test I´d think he´d do pretty nicely in the NBA, and for sure I´d love to have that kind of player in my team.

[Showdown]

Fiba tournaments, don’t have league system, teams don’t play every week, number of games is much smaller.

Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, only difference is that Euroleague has F4 in the end and Acb series.

Acb vs Euroleague,

Acb, league with 18 clubs.
EuroLeague, league with 18 clubs.

Acb, 34 games regular season.
Euroleague, 34 games regular season.

Acb, best 8 after regular season goes to playoffs.
Euroleague, best 8 after regular season gies to playoff.

Everything exactly the same till 1st round of playoffs.

Acb, 1. round of playoffs, best of 3 series.
Euroleague, 1. round of playoffs, best of 5 series.

Only difference is how they find new champions.

Acb, best of 5 series.
Euroleague, F4.

We can see that Acb and Euroleague have almost identical format, with only difference in the end. On the other hand Fiba tournaments are totally different. Groups instead of league system. All teams not playing against each other. Which means around 10 games total instead of 40 games.

Final Four after PO is a big difference because there is no league that have both while in FIBA tournaments you have group stage, second round and then elimination tournament and system in group stage's is similar to league system because seeding and tiebreakers determine opponent in next stage.

So you’re saying that 2 leagues, both having 18 clubs, identical regular season, same number of games in regular season, 34, identical criteria for qualification in playoffs, best 8 clubs, both having series in first round on playoffs...are totally different, because the winner in one league is decided by series and in other by final 4? But somehow Euroleague is more similar to Fiba tournaments, with group stage and knockout phase. All teams not playing against each other, no league format, team playing only around 10 games instead of 40 like in Euroleague.

Acb is from October till June identical to Euroleague. Only difference is in last 3 weeks of competition. But that doesn’t change the fact that EuroLeague is a league not a tournament, which has totally different format from day one till the end.

Btw. VTB league has regular season, playoffs and F4.

No one thinks that it is league everyone see it as equivalent of Champions League in football, no one see it as european version of NBA.

[Bob8]

Final Four after PO is a big difference because there is no league that have both while in FIBA tournaments you have group stage, second round and then elimination tournament and system in group stage's is similar to league system because seeding and tiebreakers determine opponent in next stage.

So you’re saying that 2 leagues, both having 18 clubs, identical regular season, same number of games in regular season, 34, identical criteria for qualification in playoffs, best 8 clubs, both having series in first round on playoffs...are totally different, because the winner in one league is decided by series and in other by final 4? But somehow Euroleague is more similar to Fiba tournaments, with group stage and knockout phase. All teams not playing against each other, no league format, team playing only around 10 games instead of 40 like in Euroleague.

Acb is from October till June identical to Euroleague. Only difference is in last 3 weeks of competition. But that doesn’t change the fact that EuroLeague is a league not a tournament, which has totally different format from day one till the end.

Btw. VTB league has regular season, playoffs and F4.

No one thinks that it is league everyone see it as equivalent of Champions League in football, no one see it as european version of NBA.

No, it was like that once upon a time. Now Euroleague is a private league, like Nba, with no connection to Fiba. We have 13/18 clubs with A license, meaning they’re permanently in Euroleague. Format, structure, ownership...is totally different than competitions like Champions league.

https://www.euroleaguebasketball.net/euroleague-basketball/news/i/6gt4utknkf9h8ryq/euroleague-basketball-a-licence-clubs-and-img-agree-on-10-year-joint-venture

This was few years back, we have 18 clubs in Euroleague now.

[UcanUwill]

By the way, international fans missed ESPN’s bizarre middle of the night broadcasts of the games from their studio in Connecticut. Calling the games alongside Tom Thibodeau was a dude named John Brickley, who in addition to mispronouncing 85% of the player’s names declared that France beat “YugoSLAVA” in 2014 Bronze medal game. Truly remarkable to **** up the name of a country that hadn’t existed for 22 years in a game that never happened.

I used to be annoyed by Americans not making a better effort with those things, but in the end I decided is just unfair to expect of them the same as the average European. In Europe people regularly cross borders physically and mentally and are expected to make an effort with other peoples' language, culture and history. You need to do it for both work and pleasure. In America you just don't, so people generally don't... it is what it is.

I mean I’m American and find it embarrassing. Don’t think it’s limited to just us though. Met plenty of Europeans who’ve never been/have no interest in visiting/know very little about the country that borders them two hours away.

American basketball media is so bad at Euro facts its terrible. They arent even trying. Even in video games its the same thing, I remember when NBA LIVE included national teams in their games, it was so off it was absurd, like if you just placed positions and skills of actual players that exist in real life in random, you might be closer to reality. I was a huge EUroleague and FIBA modder of NBA LIVE back in the day, like seriously EA could have paid me 50 bucks I would have been gladly made rosters for them, since I knew those players and their skills inside out.

About Americans, I agree with previous poster, Americans moreso than others seem to be completely ignorant about outside world. I just got from work party were people couldnt stop talking about their travels, what roads and foreign cities are best, what cultures and histories are most interesting etc. Like where do AMericans even travel to, Vegas?

[Chuck Diesel]

I used to be annoyed by Americans not making a better effort with those things, but in the end I decided is just unfair to expect of them the same as the average European. In Europe people regularly cross borders physically and mentally and are expected to make an effort with other peoples' language, culture and history. You need to do it for both work and pleasure. In America you just don't, so people generally don't... it is what it is.

I mean I’m American and find it embarrassing. Don’t think it’s limited to just us though. Met plenty of Europeans who’ve never been/have no interest in visiting/know very little about the country that borders them two hours away.

American basketball media is so bad at Euro facts its terrible. They arent even trying. Even in video games its the same thing, I remember when NBA LIVE included national teams in their games, it was so off it was absurd, like if you just placed positions and skills of actual players that exist in real life in random, you might be closer to reality. I was a huge EUroleague and FIBA modder of NBA LIVE back in the day, like seriously EA could have paid me 50 bucks I would have been gladly made rosters for them, since I knew those players and their skills inside out.

About Americans, I agree with previous poster, Americans moreso than others seem to be completely ignorant about outside world. I just got from work party were people couldnt stop talking about their travels, what roads and foreign cities are best, what cultures and histories are most interesting etc. Like where do AMericans even travel to, Vegas?

Generalizing is always a sign of intelligence.

[UcanUwill]

Generalizing is always a sign of intelligence.

Touche, man I am not having a good day in realgm. Maybe its generalizing and not true at all, but at least for what is worth, Americans seem to appoint people who have very little nondomestic knowledge in the positions of lots talking and representation, like sports and news announcing or even politics. Is that another generalization, or is that a real problem?

Like, I am totally that Euro who doesnt like traveling or know a lot about other countries excluding big ones, but come on, do some homework that your work requires.

[Mirotic12]

Euroleague first have regular season, then PO and then Final Four so it is different than every other league and more similar to FIBA tournaments because leagues have RS and then PO or Final Four but don't have both as a different stages of the tournament.

This isn't true.

ABA Liga (Adriatic League) has used a Final Four.

VTB United League has used a Final Four.

Israeli Super League has used a Final Four.

Numerous professional LEAGUES around the world have also used a single game format for their playoff's finals.


All of those are universally considered to be leagues and not tournaments, under any and all circumstances. EuroLeague is officially and factually a league. Everyone saying it isn't, are simply factually wrong, and are just claiming that their own personal opinions (even if factually incorrect) are all that matters, and that actual correct facts are irrelevant.

And to further prove how this argument that having a Final Four means you can't be a league is complete nonsense - EuroLeague itself also had a series as a final previously. But the same argument is being made that it was "always a tournament and never a league."

[Hugi Mancura]

Kobe was talking about the international game catching up to the NBA game in an interview. He said today's NBA players were saying we already saw them in the NBA. Kobe didn't think it was true and the international players were catching up. However, if you look at FIBA's all tournament team, it's all NBA players or former NBA players. Thus, it seems like the younger players were right. The best international players are in the NBA already.

Not denying that the best are there, but claim that NBA player is better than someone in Europe or some other top league is not true, If it has ever been true, but now it's less true than ever. Russia with zero NBA player had no problem with Nigeria with 3 NBA players. Team with 12 NBA players finished with seventh spot. Luis Scola, player who no-one in NBA wants anymore out played Jokic who got MVP votes this season.

On the question would moving those stars make NBA weaker. NBA is extremely star driven league, so losing stars would make it weaker. Sure there still would be people who will keep on scoring 20 points even if all those left. If all international players would move to Euroleague it would make it stronger, much stronger. Strong enough to beat top NBA teams? Yes, because there is enough international stars that they could easily fill those top5 teams in Europe and because there is no salary cap in Europe all those players could play in team or two.

It is that difficult to understand that is not the same to play a full NBA season with 82 games (48 minutes games) and probably playoffs than a short tournament with just 8 games (40 minutes games)??

A veteran good player can give it all for a few games, but he can not mantain a high level long-term. Recovery is tough. It is just that.

Who cares about regular season? Half of the playoff teams don't even try their best and they qualify easily, one third of NBA teams don't qualify to playoffs even if they try their best and both of those groups know this before season begins. So old guys can easily rest during regular season. Superstars rest during the season all the time by missing full games and sometimes in the middle of the games too. Playoffs do matter, but during playoffs there are no back-to-backs and first you need to qualify to playoffs.

I think the reason for not signing older players is more about development and that older guys have stronger vision what they want to actually do. They are not desperate to get minor roles in NBA. Especially international players, who always have a change to play at home. Teams also rather have some youngster, who ain't as good as the old guy right now, but might some day develop into a good player. Even thought this makes team lousier right now it might pay later.

[Bob8]

For everyone, who still believe that Euroleague is just a tournament. It’s obvious that their final goal is closed league similar to Nba.

https://www.talkbasket.net/37988-jordi-bertomeu-there-is-a-possibility-that-a-team-plays-in-the-euroleague-without-playing-in-its-domestic-competition

Olympiakos is relegated to second division because of dispute with Greek federation and will probably play just in Euroleague with their first team.

Euroleague expanded league with 2 more teams this year and will add two more in next few years.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/783249/the-euroleague-expansion-confirmed-with-asvels-addition/

Btw. ASVEL’s owner is Tony Parker.

[Mirotic12]

For everyone, who still believe that Euroleague is just a tournament. It’s obvious that their final goal is closed league similar to Nba.

https://www.talkbasket.net/37988-jordi-bertomeu-there-is-a-possibility-that-a-team-plays-in-the-euroleague-without-playing-in-its-domestic-competition

Olympiakos is relegated to second division because of dispute with Greek federation and will probably play just in Euroleague with their first team.

Euroleague expanded league with 2 more teams this year and will add two more in next few years.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/783249/the-euroleague-expansion-confirmed-with-asvels-addition/

Btw. ASVEL’s owner is Tony Parker.

Olympiacos officially only plays in EuroLeague. Their reserve team, Olympiacos B Development Team plays in Greek 2nd Division and Greek Cup, and will also play in Greek 1st Division if they get promoted, while Olympiacos A team plays only in EuroLeague.

https://www.eurohoops.net/en/euroleague/936124/olympiacos-presented-the-development-team-which-will-compete-in-the-greek-second-division/

"Olympiacos presented its development team of the Greek second division

The senior team of the Greek club will play only in the EuroLeague this season

The club presented the logo and the name of the second team which will consist of an entirely different roster and will play in the Greek second division and the Greek cup."

Also, we have had numerous stories in European sports media in the last few years that Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Maccabi Tel Aviv are considering doing the same thing, and they all said recently they wanted to see if what Olympiacos is doing is successful or not, and then they will very strongly consider doing the same, if Olympiacos is successful with this.

On top of that, Saski Baskonia said that if Barcelona and Real Madrid do that, and play just EuroLeague, then they will also do the same. Panathinaikos' ownership has also flirted with leaving Greek League and just playing in EuroLeague several times in recent years, and the only reason they are still playing in Greek competitions is because now that Olympiacos left them, Panathinaikos can just about pretty much guarantee they add 2 titles (Greek League and Greek Cup) to their trophy case (especially considering how much they own the Greek refs). So it's quite cynical a reason actually for them to even be in the domestic competitions, and it's not going to last long, if Olympiacos stays out of Greek competitions, as they say they will. Because Panathinaikos will lose huge sums of money without Olympiacos in Greek competitions.

So in a few years we could possibly have at least Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Saski Baskonia, Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Maccabi Tel Aviv all playing in only EuroLeague. That makes 3 Spanish teams (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Baskonia). If the Spanish ACB league is so important and matters so much, and is the more important league and so on..........then why in the world would the only 3 Spanish clubs with a EuroLeague licence be talking about leaving the ACB league entirely to just play in the EuroLeague?

It doesn't make any sense for those Spanish clubs to do that, if the ACB was even half as important for them as some here are implying.

[Bob8]

How Americans rating those leagues,

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21691644/fran-fraschilla-ranks-world-top-basketball-leagues-nba

[Mirotic12]

How Americans rating those leagues,

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21691644/fran-fraschilla-ranks-world-top-basketball-leagues-nba

It's actually a quite surprisingly good attempt for an American that very likely never watches any of them. Based on the comments he makes every year at the NBA draft, it's extremely unlikely he actually watches any of those leagues. So I give him kudos for a great attempt considering that. Even though I would disagree with some of the rankings, like France and Italy leagues over Greek and German leagues...he has that backwards, the Greek and German leagues are better. Also, he should have the league in Lithuania on there, that is better than the league in China, and I would say is fairly comparable to Israel's league.

But he is way off when he puts the FIBA basketball Champions League at #10...........it's at least the #3, and is very arguably just as good as EuroCup is. I would say it's more like tied for #2 with EuroCup, or it's 2b, with EuroCup being 2a, at the worst.

Other than that.............he has the CBA league in China ranked too high in general. It's not as good as numerous other leagues in Europe, even European national leagues like the Belgian League, Lithuanian League, or Polish league are better. CBA is not as good as the best competitions in Latin America either, like the national leagues in Brazil and Argentina, and the FIBA Americas League. I would put the NBA G-League over it also. I also think he might have the Australia's NBL league a bit too low.

[Pipp33]

I have a better idea ... if you don't mean to direct your remarks at me personally, then try stop using the word "you".

Can you read?? I specifically said I was replying to your posts, so they were directed at you

And completely wrong. If you're not willing to do the homework to back up what you said, man up, and withdraw it.

WTF? Completely wrong in replying directly to a comment you posted?? Whatever, peace out, enjoy your life in Delusionville

[JonFromVA]

Meh ... Americans don't care about the FIBA WC let alone FIBA. I'm not sure what's going to make that change, certainly not FIBA if they continue to schedule tourneys and qualifiers during or so close to the start of the NBA season.

Losing will peak interest for the future games. But Americans have very much different sense of national pride as Europeans do, so following how your nations athletes do in world cup type of events isn't nearly as big as in Europe, when (at least where I'm from) basically everyone from kids to grandparents follow this type of events regardless of the sport.

Maybe European Union should send a team, and Americans would have interest to send best players...

Rubio, Schroeder, Ntilikina
Fournier, Satoranski, Bellinelli
Doncic, Antetokoumnpo
Mirotic, Saric
Gobert, Valonciunas

And that was a quick sample, sure we may do a better team

Or we could just turn the NBA All-Star game in to a Team US .vs. Team World match like the rookie/soph game has become. It would still just be an exhibition game.