RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

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RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

Poll ended at Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 am

Kevin Durant (BKN)
5
2%
Donovan Mitchell (UTA)
59
25%
Victor Oladipo (IND)
14
6%
Kyle Lowry (TOR)
11
5%
Pascal Siakam (TOR)
103
44%
Chris Paul (OKC)
19
8%
LaMarcus Aldridge (SAS)
3
1%
Mike Conley (UTA)
5
2%
CJ McCollum (POR)
11
5%
DeMar DeRozan (SAS)
4
2%
 
Total votes: 234

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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#21 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:02 am

gh123 wrote:Lol, who is voting for CP3? The dude is cooked, he's not gonna be good next season, top40 at best and that's if he can play 60 games, which is unlikely.


12th in RPM last year and when he played without Harden he averaged 23/5/13 per 36 minutes with a .581 TS%. The Rockets had a +10 NetRtg for lineups with Paul and no Harden. LOL @ “cooked”.

Being injury prone is a legitimate concern at this point, but Paul’s still nowhere as injury prone as say Blake or Kyrie and they both went a while ago despite being significantly worse players.

I’m still voting Siakam for now because I think he should be a top 15 player next year but Paul’s close to that. Should be top 20 IMO. I’d certainly take him over Mitchell next season in a heartbeat.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#22 » by Metallikid » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:06 am

I guess I didn't see that the last one was that close because I would have voted for Mitchell. Sorry :(

Chris Paul is still better than the last three winners so I'm sticking with him.

Nominate Kevin Love (He's going to have a great bounceback season next year and then get traded to the Lakers)
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#23 » by ProcessDoctor » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:41 am

Vucevic ought to be here, so just nominating him/not voting
2019-2020 Philadelphia 76ers:

Simmons/Milton/Neto/Burke
Richardson/Thybulle/Smith
Harris/Ennis/Korkmaz
Horford/Scott/Bolden
Embiid/O’Quinn
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#24 » by Gooner » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:19 am

it's time for Mitchell to be selected. He should have been ahead of Simmons, but there is a bias here towards shorter players, even though guards are dominating the league.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#25 » by shza » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:20 am

Once again, voted Lowry, then changed (to Siakim) to try to avoid Mitchell, whom I don’t consider top 25.
Nominate Klay.

Edit: Siakim seems to have it in the bag, so I switched back to my true pick, Lowry.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#26 » by nurseryc » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:01 am

Ridiculous if Pascal doesn’t win this battle
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#27 » by nurseryc » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:02 am

Gooner wrote:it's time for Mitchell to be selected. He should have been ahead of Simmons, but there is a bias here towards shorter players, even though guards are dominating the league.


Good lord :banghead:
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#28 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:08 am

shza wrote:Once again, voted Lowry, then changed (to Siakim) to try to avoid Mitchell, whom I don’t consider top 25.
Nominate Klay


I'm with you. I really don't see the case for Mitchell over Siakam at all. Like what's he better at other than getting shots up with poor effieicency? Siakam was most improved player in the league last year. Mitchell arguably regressed from season 1 to season 2. Here are their stats:

RPM (reg season and postseason combined)
Siakam: +1.64 ORPM, +2.16 DRPM, +3.80 RPM (25th in league), 11.30 RPM wins (13th)
Mitchell: +1.69 ORPM, +0.33 DRPM, +2.02 RPM (52nd in league), 8.70 RPM wins (35th)

Regular season
Siakam: 18.7 PER on .627 TS%, .175 WS/48, 3.4 BPM, 10.9 NetRtg, +13.9 on/off
Mitchell: 17.2 PER on .537 TS%, .092 WS/48, 0.6 BPM, 6.6 NetRtg, +3.5 on/off

Postseason
Siakam: 17.2 PER on .540 TS%, .132 WS/48, 2.4 BPM, +5.3 NetRtg, -1.3 on/off
Mitchell: 6.8 PER on .423 TS%, -0.120 WS/48, -6.0 BPM, -9.0 NetRtg, +0.8 on/off

So in the regular season, Mitchell scored 7 more PPG on 8 more FGA and Siakam showed the ability to raise his usage without decreasing efficiency much in the games Kawhi was hurt. Siakam is a better rebounder, at least an equal playmaker, and a much better defender. Then in the postseason, Siakam probably would have finished runner-up for Finals MVP if they voted past first place and Mitchell had one of the worst playoffs for a lead scorer ever. He's also on much more of an upward trend. Help me understand why someone would vote for Mitchell other than "well he's the #1 scorer on his team". If Siakam played for the Jazz last year and Mitchell played for the Raptors next to Leonard and Lowry would anyone be voting for Mitchell? Furthermore does anyone think the Raptors would still have rings right now?
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#29 » by gh123 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:11 am

iggymcfrack wrote:
gh123 wrote:Lol, who is voting for CP3? The dude is cooked, he's not gonna be good next season, top40 at best and that's if he can play 60 games, which is unlikely.


12th in RPM last year and when he played without Harden he averaged 23/5/13 per 36 minutes with a .581 TS%. The Rockets had a +10 NetRtg for lineups with Paul and no Harden. LOL @ “cooked”.

Being injury prone is a legitimate concern at this point, but Paul’s still nowhere as injury prone as say Blake or Kyrie and they both went a while ago despite being significantly worse players.

I’m still voting Siakam for now because I think he should be a top 15 player next year but Paul’s close to that. Should be top 20 IMO. I’d certainly take him over Mitchell next season in a heartbeat.


He fell off considerably compare to his previous season, in every category. Played only 58 games last two seasons and there's absolutely no reason to think he'll at least stay the way he played last season, the dude is 34, with his ridiculous injury history and attitude issues he's gonna be barely net positive next season.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#30 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:17 am

gh123 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
gh123 wrote:Lol, who is voting for CP3? The dude is cooked, he's not gonna be good next season, top40 at best and that's if he can play 60 games, which is unlikely.


12th in RPM last year and when he played without Harden he averaged 23/5/13 per 36 minutes with a .581 TS%. The Rockets had a +10 NetRtg for lineups with Paul and no Harden. LOL @ “cooked”.

Being injury prone is a legitimate concern at this point, but Paul’s still nowhere as injury prone as say Blake or Kyrie and they both went a while ago despite being significantly worse players.

I’m still voting Siakam for now because I think he should be a top 15 player next year but Paul’s close to that. Should be top 20 IMO. I’d certainly take him over Mitchell next season in a heartbeat.


He fell off considerably compare to his previous season, in every category. Played only 58 games last two seasons and there's absolutely no reason to think he'll at least stay the way he played last season, the dude is 34, with his ridiculous injury history and attitude issues he's gonna be barely net positive next season.


He was a top 6 player for 7 seasons in a row, then had a hard time contributing offensively next to a 36 PPG scorer dominating the ball like no one since 80s Michael Jordan and when that player sat on the bench, Paul played like his old self on his own offensively while (according to RPM) playing the best PG defense in the entire league. How do you get "barely positive" out of that?

Also if Paul's injury history has him outside the top 30, where do you have Kyrie and Blake? Outside the top 60? Outside the top 100? They've missed twice as many games as he has in both regular season and postseason while being much less effective.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#31 » by gh123 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:57 am

iggymcfrack wrote:
gh123 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
12th in RPM last year and when he played without Harden he averaged 23/5/13 per 36 minutes with a .581 TS%. The Rockets had a +10 NetRtg for lineups with Paul and no Harden. LOL @ “cooked”.

Being injury prone is a legitimate concern at this point, but Paul’s still nowhere as injury prone as say Blake or Kyrie and they both went a while ago despite being significantly worse players.

I’m still voting Siakam for now because I think he should be a top 15 player next year but Paul’s close to that. Should be top 20 IMO. I’d certainly take him over Mitchell next season in a heartbeat.


He fell off considerably compare to his previous season, in every category. Played only 58 games last two seasons and there's absolutely no reason to think he'll at least stay the way he played last season, the dude is 34, with his ridiculous injury history and attitude issues he's gonna be barely net positive next season.


He was a top 6 player for 7 seasons in a row, then had a hard time contributing offensively next to a 36 PPG scorer dominating the ball like no one since 80s Michael Jordan and when that player sat on the bench, Paul played like his old self on his own offensively while (according to RPM) playing the best PG defense in the entire league. How do you get "barely positive" out of that?

Also if Paul's injury history has him outside the top 30, where do you have Kyrie and Blake? Outside the top 60? Outside the top 100? They've missed twice as many games as he has in both regular season and postseason while being much less effective.


You're under impression he was very good last season and will keep being very good next season, I can't argue with that.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#32 » by niQ » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:22 pm

I'll go with whoever has Spicy in their nickname.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#33 » by ZemGOAT » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:01 pm

Siakam because Mitchell isnt top 25
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#34 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:32 pm

Voting for Siakam as I did before. It's likely that someone still on the board will pass him up, but he's got the most solid case for a top 25 player with his combination of proven value and potential for growth. However, it is quite funny to see people use arguments for certain players and not use them for others.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#35 » by Asif16 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:38 pm

Vote Pascal Siakam
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#36 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:47 pm

One thing to consider with Siakam, and all other developing players, is that it's rare for someone to have consecutive breakout seasons. When someone has a breakout year like Siakam or Fox, it's more typical to see them flatten out before making another big jump.

Pascal should be in a different role, however, and he has some good indicators that suggest that he'll transition well.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#37 » by Yallbecrazy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:51 pm

Catchall wrote:
LoveMyRaps wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Shoot, score, run the offense, create looks, and carry a team offensively. Lets see what Siakam looks like this year, now that he's forced to be a #1 option.


Stop reading at ''shoot, score'' what even is that supposed to mean?? loool Siakam is a much more efficient scorer.
And clearly you didn't watch a single Raptors game last year in which Kawhi didn't play.


Mitchell is a better shooter, scorer and offensive creator. That's what it means.

I get that you love your Raptors, and Siakam is a deserving MIP. He's a very valuable contract, but he's not a top 25 player, imo.



Siakam is a far more efficient scorer, better defender, better rebounder. Mitchell is an undersized, but decent defender and an inefficient chucker on offense. Pascal is an ideal player for a championship contender, Mitchell right now is a ceiling limiting player.

I switched my vote to Siakam to win this even though Lowry should have gone off the board 10 picks ago.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#38 » by SlowPaced » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:09 pm

Vote: Siakam
Nominate: Vucevic
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#39 » by Effigy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:52 pm

Raptor fans rallying around their guy a little later than expected. Pascal is nice, but he's not top 25 yet. But whatever, these rankings don't mean anything. I think Mitchell is going to have a big year next year now that he has weapons. It will be interesting to see how Pascal responds as a first option.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#40 » by Catchall » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:58 pm

Someone want to convince me that Siakam is better than Kristaps and Tobias Harris, or that he's offensively better than Julius Randle, who put up 21/9 last year for the Pels?

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