RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

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RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20

Poll ended at Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:32 am

Kevin Durant (BKN)
5
2%
Donovan Mitchell (UTA)
59
25%
Victor Oladipo (IND)
14
6%
Kyle Lowry (TOR)
11
5%
Pascal Siakam (TOR)
103
44%
Chris Paul (OKC)
19
8%
LaMarcus Aldridge (SAS)
3
1%
Mike Conley (UTA)
5
2%
CJ McCollum (POR)
11
5%
DeMar DeRozan (SAS)
4
2%
 
Total votes: 234

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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#61 » by Heat4lyf » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:13 pm

To everyone voting Mitchell what makes him better than devin booker?

On that note
Nominate : booker
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#62 » by KqWIN » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:19 pm

Heat4lyf wrote:To everyone voting Mitchell what makes him better than devin booker?

On that note
Nominate : booker


I did not vote for Booker, but I think the argument is very simple. Booker is a significantly worse defender than Mitchell, and that outweighs the difference on offense...if one will exist at all next season. This is supported by the numbers which indicate Booker as one of the worst defenders in the league.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#63 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:27 pm

KqWIN wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:Players who averaged at least 16.7 PPG with a TS% of .628 or higher last year:

Giannis Antetokounmpo
Steph Curry
Danilo Gallinari
Kevin Durant
Pascal Siakam

If you open it up a little bit to say 15 PPG, you get guys like Gobert and Capela that play a different role, but Siakam’s a legitimate creator who’s capable of being a #1 option when he’s not next to the #1 player in the league. He’s an offensive star already while also being one of the best defensive players in the league. Really glad to see him finally going here. I had him #13 overall.


He's got some good indicators, but we'll see how he is as the number one option and the extent to which that becomes his role at all.

His usage without Kawhi was 22.6%. That's about the same as Ibaka (22.9%) was overall. Ibaka was 26.2% w/o Kawhi.


It’s definitely surprising that Ibaka shot the ball that much off the bench, but 22.6 isn’t exactly low either. That’s higher than guys like Butler, Simmons, and Tatum for instance.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#64 » by iggymcfrack » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:28 pm

Heat4lyf wrote:To everyone voting Mitchell what makes him better than devin booker?

On that note
Nominate : booker


Defense. Mitchell’s slightly above average at it and Booker’s still terrible on that end. Not that I’d vote Mitchell above Siakam, Paul, or Lowry who are all much better defenders still.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#65 » by THE J0KER » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:53 pm

Voted Mitchell, nominate Vucevic and instead of Durant Jamal Murray.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#66 » by Syd-TK3 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:57 pm

We are basing these ratings on how they will be in the upcoming season than I'm picking siakam
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#67 » by Catchall » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:25 pm

LoveMyRaps wrote:
Catchall wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
Julius Randle?

You can't be serious :lol:


Julius Randle: 21.7 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 3.1 apg, 55.5% eFG%, 21.0 PER

Offensively, Randle was comparable or better last year than Siakam.


I'm so confused as to why you continue to make false statements about Siakam when you've never seen him play. Because let's be honest, you've never seen him play.

Randle:
Image

Siakam:
Image

Please tell us how Randle was comparable/better last year than Siakam offensively.
And do you just totally ignore defense when evaluating players?


I have watched Siakam, especially during the playoffs this year. The stats you just posted show that Randle, aside from averaging more points, rebounds and assists, had a higher PER, higher usage, higher rebound rate, higher assist rate, higher FT rate, and comparable TS%. The win-share stat isn't as relevant where the Raptors as a team had more wins than the Pelicans. You may be confused, but these aren't false statements.

I'm comparing Randle and Siakam offensively. Yes, Siakam is a much better defender.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#68 » by HoopsterJones » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:29 am

Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.
2019-2020 Bulls Prediction:

Regular Season: 35-47
1 All Star: Markkanen or LaVine
All Rookie 2nd Team: Coby White
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#69 » by Asif16 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:33 am

HoopsterJones wrote:Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.


He's definetely better than Mitchell right now.

Mitchell's season this past year was Ass. Hit a huge sophomore slump while Siakam dominated
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#70 » by mademan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:35 am

HoopsterJones wrote:Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.


Right now? As in, what we've seen of them up to this point? How can anyone think Mitchell's been better?
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#71 » by HoopsterJones » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:50 am

Asif16 wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.


He's definetely better than Mitchell right now.

Mitchell's season this past year was Ass. Hit a huge sophomore slump while Siakam dominated


Siakam was very good no doubt, but not dominant though.

Still think Mitchell is a better player. But it would not shock me if Siakam is better this season being the main guy in TOR.
2019-2020 Bulls Prediction:

Regular Season: 35-47
1 All Star: Markkanen or LaVine
All Rookie 2nd Team: Coby White
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#72 » by Heat4lyf » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:01 am

KqWIN wrote:
Heat4lyf wrote:To everyone voting Mitchell what makes him better than devin booker?

On that note
Nominate : booker


I did not vote for Booker, but I think the argument is very simple. Booker is a significantly worse defender than Mitchell, and that outweighs the difference on offense...if one will exist at all next season. This is supported by the numbers which indicate Booker as one of the worst defenders in the league.


I think booker is vastly superior offensive threat
Half the year Mitchell was bad perhaps he makes the jump but idk

And I know booker is horrible on D but Mitchell has a bunch of solid defenders helping him and a great coach and best rim protector in the league

Booker has none of that so his bad is exposed even more

I just think it's a fair comparison so idk why booker isn't even on the list that's all
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#73 » by LloydFree » Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:37 am

Vote for Siakam
Nominate Josh Richardson
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#74 » by RunOKC » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:12 am

Asif16 wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.


He's definetely better than Mitchell right now.

Mitchell's season this past year was Ass. Hit a huge sophomore slump while Siakam dominated

How was he ass? Maybe you based it on their slow start to the year?

17-18: 20.5 PPG (43.7 FG%/34 3P%), 3.7 reb/assist, 1.5stl
18-19: 23.8 PPG (43.2 FG%/36.2 3P%), 4.1 reb/4.2 ast, 1.4stl

Not seeing a huge sophomore slump. Mitchell is better right now imo. We'll see if Siakam is up to the challenge of being the #1 option.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#75 » by mademan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:21 am

RunOKC wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
HoopsterJones wrote:Siakam is getting that Raptors vote bump here.
He’s not better than Donovan Mitchell as of right now.

But he might be if he’s the #1 Option this season now that Kawhi is with LAC.


He's definetely better than Mitchell right now.

Mitchell's season this past year was Ass. Hit a huge sophomore slump while Siakam dominated

How was he ass? Maybe you based it on their slow start to the year?

17-18: 20.5 PPG (43.7 FG%/34 3P%), 3.7 reb/assist, 1.5stl
18-19: 23.8 PPG (43.2 FG%/36.2 3P%), 4.1 reb/4.2 ast, 1.4stl

Not seeing a huge sophomore slump. Mitchell is better right now imo. We'll see if Siakam is up to the challenge of being the #1 option.


But he isnt better right now. Almost every analytical assessment of the 2 players from last year favours Siakam. It's Mitchell who would need to make the jump to be considered better
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#76 » by BloodNinja » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:50 am

Siakam over Mitchell is hilarious.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#77 » by iggymcfrack » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:20 am

BloodNinja wrote:Siakam over Mitchell is hilarious.


Siakam was a little better in the regular season. He was MILES better in the playoffs. He was a good game or two away from winning Finals MVP while Mitchell had one of the worst series ever for a first option.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#78 » by KqWIN » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:35 am

mademan wrote:
RunOKC wrote:
Asif16 wrote:
He's definetely better than Mitchell right now.

Mitchell's season this past year was Ass. Hit a huge sophomore slump while Siakam dominated

How was he ass? Maybe you based it on their slow start to the year?

17-18: 20.5 PPG (43.7 FG%/34 3P%), 3.7 reb/assist, 1.5stl
18-19: 23.8 PPG (43.2 FG%/36.2 3P%), 4.1 reb/4.2 ast, 1.4stl

Not seeing a huge sophomore slump. Mitchell is better right now imo. We'll see if Siakam is up to the challenge of being the #1 option.


But he isnt better right now. Almost every analytical assessment of the 2 players from last year favours Siakam. It's Mitchell who would need to make the jump to be considered better


The analytics didn't matter with Simmons, but they matter now that it's Siakam.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#79 » by mademan » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:50 am

KqWIN wrote:
mademan wrote:
RunOKC wrote:How was he ass? Maybe you based it on their slow start to the year?

17-18: 20.5 PPG (43.7 FG%/34 3P%), 3.7 reb/assist, 1.5stl
18-19: 23.8 PPG (43.2 FG%/36.2 3P%), 4.1 reb/4.2 ast, 1.4stl

Not seeing a huge sophomore slump. Mitchell is better right now imo. We'll see if Siakam is up to the challenge of being the #1 option.


But he isnt better right now. Almost every analytical assessment of the 2 players from last year favours Siakam. It's Mitchell who would need to make the jump to be considered better


The analytics didn't matter with Simmons, but they matter now that it's Siakam.


I weigh playoffs fairly heavily. Mitchell was a abysmal, simmons underperformed and Siakam ranged from pretty bad (against Philly) to true stardom, showing out
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#23 2019-20 

Post#80 » by KqWIN » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:03 am

mademan wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
mademan wrote:
But he isnt better right now. Almost every analytical assessment of the 2 players from last year favours Siakam. It's Mitchell who would need to make the jump to be considered better


The analytics didn't matter with Simmons, but they matter now that it's Siakam.


I weigh playoffs fairly heavily. Mitchell was a abysmal, simmons underperformed and Siakam ranged from pretty bad (against Philly) to true stardom, showing out


OK...That's fine if you want to weigh playoffs that heavily. I'm just trying to find some consistency in these arguments. For me, I'm more interested in how one reaches a conclusion rather than the conclusion itself. I find myself making the case for someone I didn't vote for more often than not just because it confuses me how people come to these conclusions.

Regular season analytics were thrown out the window were ignored when comparing Mitchell and Simmons. Now they appear to be the core of many arguments now that it is Mitchell against Siakam. One of the statements you made in the other thread was along the lines of "Simmons is more than significantly better than Mitchell". I'm assuming that when you mean "every analytical assessment", you must mean playoff only.

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