RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20

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RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20

Poll ended at Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:22 pm

Kevin Durant (BKN)
6
2%
Donovan Mitchell (UTA)
61
25%
Victor Oladipo (IND)
8
3%
Kyle Lowry (TOR)
111
46%
Chris Paul (OKC)
22
9%
LaMarcus Aldridge (SAS)
2
1%
Mike Conley (UTA)
10
4%
CJ McCollum (POR)
12
5%
DeMar DeRozan (SAS)
4
2%
Nikola Vucevic (ORL)
7
3%
 
Total votes: 243

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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#121 » by Just_Somebody » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:27 pm

KrazyP wrote:
Just_Somebody wrote:
SlowPaced wrote:
Does it occur to you the possibility that people who weren't voting for Simmons and Mitchell but someone else (like Siakam) voted for Lowry this time? That's what happened in my case. I didn't vote for Simmons and I have yet to vote for Mitchell.

Raps fans coming into the picture may have played a role, but it's inaccurate to act like it tells the whole story.

Lowry was tied for 5th with 11 votes the last poll, and suddenly leads the next one with 99 votes (and counting). It's no coincident that the moment a Raptors player is chosen, the other Raps player gets an unbelievable jump in votes.
If you pay attention to the voting pattern in this project, the #2 voted player in a vote always gets picked in the next poll (exceptions: the injured Durant, and Jrue Holiday after a very close poll).
This is no co-incident and it's a little sad to see how a fanbase manipulates a very intriguing project.


Its a little sad to see fans get blinded by brands over substance.

Lowry wasn't a high draft pick, he doesnt have a major shoe deal and theres no flash to his game. That said, he makes a huge impact every time he's on the floor and clearly makes his team play better.

Lowry has finished #15, #9, #10, #7 and #25 overall in ESPN RPM the last 5 years and he's pretty much been consistently in the top 20 range of every advanced stat that measures actual impact.....that kind of stuff doesnt happen by fluke.

Lowry being voted #24 in this poll is perfectly inline with his actual impact.

This isn't about Lowry or any other player. This is about a fanbase that used their number advantage to get their own player voted.
And if you're really gonna use ESPN RPM to justify Lowry being picked, what would you say about CP3 being 12th, 1st, 2nd 3rd, 7th and 2nd in the years this stat is available?
Again. This isn't about Lowry. There's just no way to deny the fact that he was picked because Raps have the largest fanbase in here, as evidenced by previous votes he recieved and the circumstances with Siakam having just been voted.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#122 » by RunOKC » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:35 pm

This is insanity if people really think Lowry + siakam over Mitchell
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#123 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:51 pm

RunOKC wrote:This is insanity if people really think Lowry + siakam over Mitchell


It’s almost like they think there’s more to the game than scoring!
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#124 » by Effigy » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:07 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
RunOKC wrote:This is insanity if people really think Lowry + siakam over Mitchell


It’s almost like they think there’s more to the game than scoring!


It’s almost as if this forum is full of homer Raptor fans.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#125 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:10 pm

12/1/1/0/0 on 4/10 shooting with 5 fouls last night for team USA all-star Donovan Mitchell.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#126 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:20 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:12/1/1/0/0 on 4/10 shooting with 5 fouls last night for team USA all-star Donovan Mitchell.


And Lowry didn't make the team.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#127 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:22 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:12/1/1/0/0 on 4/10 shooting with 5 fouls last night for team USA all-star Donovan Mitchell.


And Lowry didn't make the team.


It’s not like he got cut. He withdrew with a thumb injury that should be fully healed by game 1 of the NBA season. Making the NBA Finals sometimes takes a while to recover from.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#128 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:48 pm

iggymcfrack wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:12/1/1/0/0 on 4/10 shooting with 5 fouls last night for team USA all-star Donovan Mitchell.


And Lowry didn't make the team.


It’s not like he got cut. He withdrew with a thumb injury that should be fully healed by game 1 of the NBA season. Making the NBA Finals sometimes takes a while to recover from.


I never know if they withdraw or will be cut and are givin an opportunity to save face.

Regardless Lowry ain't playing for team USA so he is contributing less than Mitchell.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#129 » by mademan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:56 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
And Lowry didn't make the team.


It’s not like he got cut. He withdrew with a thumb injury that should be fully healed by game 1 of the NBA season. Making the NBA Finals sometimes takes a while to recover from.


I never know if they withdraw or will be cut and are givin an opportunity to save face.

Regardless Lowry ain't playing for team USA so he is contributing less than Mitchell.


Well the hype from Mitchell is coming from talk around the camp. So when he looks mediocre out there, its worth pointing out
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#130 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:01 pm

mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
It’s not like he got cut. He withdrew with a thumb injury that should be fully healed by game 1 of the NBA season. Making the NBA Finals sometimes takes a while to recover from.


I never know if they withdraw or will be cut and are givin an opportunity to save face.

Regardless Lowry ain't playing for team USA so he is contributing less than Mitchell.


Well the hype from Mitchell is coming from talk around the camp. So when he looks mediocre out there, its worth pointing out


Mitchell>Lowry
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#131 » by mademan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:42 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
I never know if they withdraw or will be cut and are givin an opportunity to save face.

Regardless Lowry ain't playing for team USA so he is contributing less than Mitchell.


Well the hype from Mitchell is coming from talk around the camp. So when he looks mediocre out there, its worth pointing out


Mitchell>Lowry


Based on last year? Absolutely not. Not by any measure. You would have to have to have a space jam level stretch of logic to make that statement.

Any idea of Mitchell being better than Lowry is based on a projection. Are people seriously upset that others are projecting something different than them?
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#132 » by MalonesElbows » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 pm

In2ition wrote:
THE J0KER wrote:
In2ition wrote:Clearly a TOP20 player with those stats at 22yr old? Isn't there other 22 or younger players that put up those stats or even better during that time period?

If you are talking about Devin Booker, there is a significant difference between 25-5-5 stats playing for 32-13 team (Utah since January has 3rd best record in NBA), and playing for 10-34 team (Phoenix has since January 2nd worst record in NBA).


Didn't Trae Young average 25-5-9 in that time as a 20 yr?

If you want to point out Booker, are we really comparing the rosters around them, or are you insinuating that Mitchell carried them to that record all by himself and therefore...?


Young is one of the worst defenders in the league. He has to improve that before being taken seriously. Offensively, he did surprise me, I was a seller on him not being able to deal with NBA length.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#133 » by Roddy B for 3 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:21 pm

mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Well the hype from Mitchell is coming from talk around the camp. So when he looks mediocre out there, its worth pointing out


Mitchell>Lowry



Based on last year? Absolutely not. Not by any measure. You would have to have to have a space jam level stretch of logic to make that statement.

Any idea of Mitchell being better than Lowry is based on a projection. Are people seriously upset that others are projecting something different than them?


It seems like Mitchell was going to get in the top 25 but a bunch of Raptors fans decided to change that and vote THEIR guy in.

Do you think the Jazz would have been as good last year with Lowry instead of Mitchell?

I don't.

Honestly, I don't think Toronto would have been as good with Mitchell instead of Lowry.

I think Mitchell is a better #1 and Lowry is a better #3 or #4
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#134 » by gh123 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:30 pm

Colbinii wrote:
gh123 wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
All Dray did was lead a Finals team in playoff on/off for the 3rd time in the last 5 years. What a bum, right? He should have gone higher IMO.

Meanwhile, Westbrook is so washed that you can’t even really have him on a winning team and he went 3 spots higher. He was the worst pick by far. Draymond >>> Westbrook.


On\off, cool stat.
Switch Donkey with WB and Okla likely don't make the PO with Donley's regular season 11+7.


I see you have never watched Draymond Green play basketball. Stick to box-scores.


I did, he was horrible offensively and not elite defensively last season.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#135 » by mademan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:32 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
Mitchell>Lowry



Based on last year? Absolutely not. Not by any measure. You would have to have to have a space jam level stretch of logic to make that statement.

Any idea of Mitchell being better than Lowry is based on a projection. Are people seriously upset that others are projecting something different than them?


It seems like Mitchell was going to get in the top 25 but a bunch of Raptors fans decided to change that and vote THEIR guy in.

Do you think the Jazz would have been as good last year with Lowry instead of Mitchell?

I don't.

Honestly, I don't think Toronto would have been as good with Mitchell instead of Lowry.

I think Mitchell is a better #1 and Lowry is a better #3 or #4


Lowry has spent years as the best player of a perennial 50 win team. He was just the 2nd best player on a championship team. Raw stats dont favour Mitchell. Impact stats absolutely dont favour mitchell. The idea that Mitchell was better last year than Lowry is the idea that scoring is more important than everything else in basketball (at average efficiency, no less), which is ridiculous. Lowry is a much better playmaker, defender, leader and is more efficient. Mitchell scores more at league average efficiency.

Lowry was better. Without question. If you want to point to age and say Mitchell will be better because he's younger and Lowry will hit the wall soon, so be it. Others dont project the same.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#136 » by Colbinii » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:34 pm

gh123 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
gh123 wrote:
On\off, cool stat.
Switch Donkey with WB and Okla likely don't make the PO with Donley's regular season 11+7.


I see you have never watched Draymond Green play basketball. Stick to box-scores.


I did, he was horrible offensively and not elite defensively last season.


Great at setting picks. Tremendous passer. Can run an offense from baseline to baseline. Insanely high IQ.

But hey, he doesn't score like Bradley Beal.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#137 » by babyjax13 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:38 pm

mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
mademan wrote:

Based on last year? Absolutely not. Not by any measure. You would have to have to have a space jam level stretch of logic to make that statement.

Any idea of Mitchell being better than Lowry is based on a projection. Are people seriously upset that others are projecting something different than them?


It seems like Mitchell was going to get in the top 25 but a bunch of Raptors fans decided to change that and vote THEIR guy in.

Do you think the Jazz would have been as good last year with Lowry instead of Mitchell?

I don't.

Honestly, I don't think Toronto would have been as good with Mitchell instead of Lowry.

I think Mitchell is a better #1 and Lowry is a better #3 or #4


Lowry has spent years as the best player of a perennial 50 win team. He was just the 2nd best player on a championship team. Raw stats dont favour Mitchell. Impact stats absolutely dont favour mitchell. The idea that Mitchell was better last year than Lowry is the idea that scoring is more important than everything else in basketball (at average efficiency, no less), which is ridiculous. Lowry is a much better playmaker, defender, leader and is more efficient. Mitchell scores more at league average efficiency.

Lowry was better. Without question. If you want to point to age and say Mitchell will be better because he's younger and Lowry will hit the wall soon, so be it. Others dont project the same.


Yup, this is absolutely the right take.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#138 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:37 pm

gh123 wrote:
Colbinii wrote:
gh123 wrote:
On\off, cool stat.
Switch Donkey with WB and Okla likely don't make the PO with Donley's regular season 11+7.


I see you have never watched Draymond Green play basketball. Stick to box-scores.


I did, he was horrible offensively and not elite defensively last season.


How do you get "not elite defensively"? He was the best defensive player in the entire league once the playoffs started and the only one who was even close was Embiid. Like if Draymond's not elite defensively, who is? Just 1964 Bill Russell?
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#139 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:40 pm

Roddy B for 3 wrote:
mademan wrote:
Roddy B for 3 wrote:
Mitchell>Lowry



Based on last year? Absolutely not. Not by any measure. You would have to have to have a space jam level stretch of logic to make that statement.

Any idea of Mitchell being better than Lowry is based on a projection. Are people seriously upset that others are projecting something different than them?


It seems like Mitchell was going to get in the top 25 but a bunch of Raptors fans decided to change that and vote THEIR guy in.

Do you think the Jazz would have been as good last year with Lowry instead of Mitchell?

I don't.

Honestly, I don't think Toronto would have been as good with Mitchell instead of Lowry.

I think Mitchell is a better #1 and Lowry is a better #3 or #4



Seems a little dismissive to talk about Lowry as a #3 or #4 when he just won a championship as a #2 and was probably better in that role than anyone in the league except Draymond Green.
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Re: RealGM Top 25 Player Poll-#24 2019-20 

Post#140 » by Alatan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 pm

Guess the 25th best player is Fred VanVleet.

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