RealGM

Your favorite offseason debate is back by popular demand!
Thanks to everyone who voted last go around Im excited to see where the 2nd annual edition ends up.

Here's the Rules:
-Vote ONE player per poll. You'll be able to change your vote just like last year for those indecisive folks.
-The criteria of ranking the players is YOUR OWN. The whole point of bringing this to the GB is to attract the widest amount of votes/perspectives on the game as possible to form a true consensus. Some people value shooting over defense, team success over indivdual prowess etc. I want to bake all that in to this poll set no matter how chaotic.
-Each poll a player will win and then be taken out of the field. There will be 25 polls in all.
-There are only 10 possible poll options so I will start with the 10 guys who I personally believe will round out the top 10 in most people's eyes.
-As each poll commences I ask you to COMMENT IN THE THREAD your vote for who should be added in the next poll. There will be a large list of players yet to be added to the field below that you can look over to make your vote. I will tally up the votes in the comments at the end of each poll and add the winner accordingly. For example, if you want Marc Gasol added in the next poll just comment "Marc Gasol" or "Gasol".
-If a poll is overwhelmingly skewed towards one guy I will try, time willing, to edit it early and move on to the next one.
-If there is a tie in the poll. There will be a run-off poll created with just the tying parties to determine a winner. The losers of the runoff will then be added back into the field of 10 for the next poll.
-Feel free to ask any questions via pm or comment
-Feel Free to comment on your reasoning for a pick and why

THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE FOR PARTICIPATING!!!!

Winner of Poll #23:Pascal Siakam (TOR)-41% (As of creation of Poll #24)
Added to Poll:Nikola Vucevic (ORL)


RealGM Top 25 Players 2019-20:
1)Kawhi Leonard (LAC)-39%
2)Giannis Antetokounmpo (MIL)-42%
3)LeBron James (LAL)-42%
4)Stephen Curry (GSW)-48%
5)James Harden (HOU)-40%
6)Anthony Davis (LAL)-39%
7)Nikola Jokic (DEN)-33%
8)Joel Embiid (PHI)-35%
9)Paul George (LAC)-46%
10)Damian Lillard (POR)-54%
11)Jimmy Butler (MIA)-30%
12)Russell Westbrook (HOU)-26%
13)Rudy Gobert (UTA)-23%
14)Karl-Anthony Towns (MIN)-28%
15)Draymond Green (GSW)-30%
16)Kyrie Irving (BKN)-37%
17)Blake Griffin (DET)-31%
18)Bradley Beal (WAS)-24%
19)Kemba Walker (BOS)-29%
20)Luka Doncic (DAL)-37%
21)Jrue Holiday (NOP)-22%
22)Ben Simmons (PHI)-30%
23)Pascal Siakam (TOR)-41%



Yet To Be Added: (If someone is not here that you want here comment THAT and I will add them)
Trae Young (ATL)
John Collins (ATL)
Jayson Tatum (BOS)
Jaylen Brown (BOS)
Gordon Hayward (BOS)
DeAndre Jordan (BKN)
Zach LaVine (CHI)
Lauri Markannen (CHI)
Otto Porter (CHI)
Terry Rozier (CHA)
Kevin Love (CLE)
Kristaps Porzingis (DAL)
Jamal Murray (DEN)
Andre Drummond (DET)
Reggie Jackson (DET)
Klay Thompson (GSW)
D'Angelo Russell (GSW)
Clint Capela (HOU)
Eric Gordon (HOU)
Malcolm Brogdan (IND)
Myles Turner (IND)
Lou Williams (LAC)
DeMarcus Cousins (LAL)
Kyle Kuzma (LAL)
Jonas Valanciunas (MEM)
Jaren Jackson Jr. (MEM)
Ja Morant (MEM)
Khris Middleton (MIL)
Andrew Wiggins (MIN)
Robert Covington (MIN)
Brandon Ingram (NOP)
Zion Williamson (NOP)
Julius Randle (NYK)
Mitchell Robinson (NYK)
RJ Barrett (NYK)
Danilo Gallinari (OKC)
Steven Adams (OKC)
Aaron Gordon (ORL)
Al Horford (PHI)
Tobias Harris (PHI)
Devin Booker (PHX)
Deandre Ayton (PHX)
Jusuf Nurkic (POR)
De'Aaron Fox (SAC)
Marvin Bagley III (SAC)
Marc Gasol (TOR)
Bojan Bogdanovic (UTA)
Joe Ingles (UTA)
John Wall (WAS)
Isaiah Thomas (WAS)

Here's the list from last year:
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1746971

Vote: Lowry

Clearly Lowry.
The man racked up more charges than a lot of NBA teams did put together.
NBA champion.

Lowry. The man has the heart of a champion.

Voted Mitchell
Nominated bKristaps

Vote Lowry
Nominate Klay

Lowry

Once again, Mike Conley

lowry

CP3

Mitchell has to win this people let’s be real. The success that team has had with him being a second year player we should move on to 25

Easily Lowry

**** it, Chris Paul should have been top 15 but since nobody thinks he's a good player anymore I'm gonna go with the man, Kyle Lowry.

Nominate Kevin Love (He's much better than Vucevic)

This **** isn’t even fair anymore Paul or Mitchell should of been this and the last spot but now the voting is getting stuffed

Voted-Mitchell
Nominate-Lou Williams

TheNewEra wrote:This **** isn’t even fair anymore Paul or Mitchell should of been this and the last spot but now the voting is getting stuffed

Cry me a river.

Mitchell is not better than Siakam or Simmons. I don't know what else to you.
The numbers don't lie!

I love Spida but he really hasn't done enough in this league to justify him being a top 25 player.

The next two spots should go to Lowry and Paul.

There are three guys I'm wrestling with here, haven't casted my vote yet.

I probably should have asked this earlier, but does anyone know the targeted return date for Oladipo? I've admittedly overlooked him.

Now that Vucevic is on the board, I think I might pick him over the aging PG's (Paul, Lowry, Conley). Last season was likely an outlier, but it was so good I think he deserves to be the best "right now" candidate. At 29, I'm picking him over the small PG's at 34, 33, 32. All three of those guys are injury risks. Paul and Lowry have already shown signs of aging despite remaining fantastic players. When we talk about underrated players, Vuc is actually underrated and overlooked.

Mitchell is THE upside player as the only up and coming player in the poll. Beyond that, he has some pretty good indicators for development. He's in his third year after somewhat of a sophomore slump, which is a very typical time for players to make a jump. The reports out of Team USA camp are glowing. He's healthy coming into this season, unlike last year when he was recovering from a significant injury. He was great in the second half of the season (albeit against a weak schedule). And lastly, his role will likely change in his favor due to different personnel around him.

I think a lot of the negatives with Mitchell were the result of him playing in a role/situation that he was simply not good enough for. Now that we're in the 20's, we have a large group of players at similar levels but playing completely different roles. I feel like not enough consideration has been placed on the situation a player was in and how that might change with so much player movement.

LoveMyRaps wrote:

TheNewEra wrote:This **** isn’t even fair anymore Paul or Mitchell should of been this and the last spot but now the voting is getting stuffed

Cry me a river.

Mitchell is not better than Siakam or Simmons. I don't know what else to you.
The numbers don't lie!

I love Spida but he really hasn't done enough in this league to justify him being a top 25 player.

The next two spots should go to Lowry and Paul.

Many of the numbers, especially the +/- statistics that have been used in arguments of every single player, have Mitchell ahead of Simmons. I'm not telling anyone how much weight to put on numbers other than that they should probably be consistent on how they use them from player to player.

"The numbers don't lie" is not an argument that favors Simmons unless you put a very heavy weight on DBPM.

LoveMyRaps wrote:

TheNewEra wrote:This **** isn’t even fair anymore Paul or Mitchell should of been this and the last spot but now the voting is getting stuffed

Cry me a river.

Mitchell is not better than Siakam or Simmons. I don't know what else to you.
The numbers don't lie!

I love Spida but he really hasn't done enough in this league to justify him being a top 25 player.

The next two spots should go to Lowry and Paul.

There should be more weight being the first option on a playoff team in the west. You put Mitchell with Kawhi and the attention he can draw and I’m sure his advanced numbers would greatly jump. There is a big under appreciation for the work load Mitchell has to carry the way that roster was built.

Gotta go CP3. Here's his rank by RPM each year:

2014: #2
2015: #7
2016: #3
2017: #2
2018: #1
2019: #12

Now, is there reason to think that Paul might hit a hard decline all at once? Not really. He's never been a player who relies heavily on athleticism. The three main skills that age best are shooting, passing, and defense, and Paul has all 3 in spades. He's a career 47/37/87 shooter, he's arguably the best passer in the history of the NBA, and he led all PGs in DRPM last season. He basically profiles just like John Stockton in terms of a player who should be able to hold his value for an absurdly long time.

So what else could have led to him having a down season last year? Could it possibly be the heavily rumored conflict with the other star on the team who had the second highest USG% in the history of the league at 40.5%? Seems possible, let's look at the numbers:

Paul without Harden per 36: 23/5/13 on .584 TS%, +10.4 NetRtg

Hmmmm, I don't see any decline there at all. Those numbers for a full season would actually be the best of his entire career. So we have a player who was top 5 for years who played better offensively than he did his entire career when Harden was on the bench while also being the best defensive PG in the league. And people aren't sure if he's top 25 any more? He could easily be top 10 running the show with his own team in OKC. Mitchell hasn't done anything to show himself to be close yet, and Lowry as great as he is was a significantly worse player 12 seasons in a row before the conflict between Paul and Harden last year. He's also only 10 months younger. I think this should really be Paul right now and then Lowry at #25. I mean really they both should have gone in the Top 17 but that horse is out of the barn already.