USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 11 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002

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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#101 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:30 am

Bob8 wrote:Can I name very solid Nba starter, top 50 player, who was nobody in Euroleague and he played there and being nobody for 4 seasons?


You have someone in mind?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#102 » by old skool » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:44 am

The idea that USA basketball struggles in FIBA play seems to be a bit misguided.

USA throws together a hodge podge of elite NBA players with very little experience playing together. They play basketball with different rules, a different ball, a shorter game, a smaller court, sometimes without their best players, and in their last 60 games they are 59-1.

Has any country ever been so dominant in FIBA play?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#103 » by old skool » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:19 am

USA basketball fans don't care very much about the FIBA World Cup. Games are not televised. There is very limited media coverage. USA rosters are thrown together and don't have time to really develop a cohesive team game. Top players routinely decline to participate. FIBA competitions are played under rules that disadvantage NBA players. FIBA competitions are played at a time of the year that is disruptive for NBA teams. There is little about FIBA basketball that is compelling to USA fans. FIBA basketball is not significant in the realm of USA spectator sports.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#104 » by old skool » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:44 am

The NBA and FIBA seem to be very different types of basketball competitions. Not only are games played under different rules and with different balls on different courts, but the competitive formats seem to be very different. Central to the NBA competition format is an 82 game regular season. The travel alone adds to the complexity of the basketball year. That regular season is followed by an intense two month playoff season that involves 16 teams.

FIBA seems to be more like NCAA basketball with respect to the number of regular season games played and the nature of the post season. Like most US NBA fans, I don't know very much about FIBA or Euroleague, but it sounds like they play a fraction of the games in the regular season and playoffs compared to the NBA.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#105 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:56 am

jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:Can I name very solid Nba starter, top 50 player, who was nobody in Euroleague and he played there and being nobody for 4 seasons?


You have someone in mind?


Joe Ingles.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#106 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:03 am

old skool wrote:The NBA and FIBA seem to be very different types of basketball competitions. Not only are games played under different rules and with different balls on different courts, but the competitive formats seem to be very different. Central to the NBA competition format is an 82 game regular season. The travel alone adds to the complexity of the basketball year. That regular season is followed by an intense two month playoff season that involves 16 teams.

FIBA seems to be more like NCAA basketball with respect to the number of regular season games played and the nature of the post season. Like most US NBA fans, I don't know very much about FIBA or Euroleague, but it sounds like they play a fraction of the games in the regular season and playoffs compared to the NBA.


Not true. Best clubs play Euroleague ( around 35 games), domestic league(around 40 games) and different cups, another 3-5 games. All together around 80 games. Then you have Fiba competitions, like WC, Eurobasket or Olympics. Al together it can be 90 games + preparation games for competition like WC. Format in domestic league is regular season + series best of 5. In Euroleague you have, regular season + playoffs game ( best of 5) + Final 4.
Clubs that play in Euroleague or Eurocup travel all around Europe. Spain, Russia, Turkey, Israel...are not that near to each other.
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Re: 12 NBA Players Team USA's 9 Losses In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#107 » by valrond1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:30 am

jason bourne wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:I'm starting to get an Anti-American vibe from these threads. Every. Single. Loss. Is brought up and made into a thread this summer. I don't even know of anyone that's excited or watching the team this year. No one in America seems to care about Fiba. Only the Olympics. People get so excited after every loss. I haven't watched a second of a Team USA game and I know they lost at least 3 times and another time to a G-League squad in practice, just because of the amount of threads. I haven't seen a thread about a win though.

The only thing I cared about this Fiba Tournament was how Montenegro, Nigeria, and France was doing because of Nikola Vucevic, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Evan Fournier. That's it.


For some reason, 90% of this forum always puts the Olympics and FIBA as two separate things.......however, FIBA runs and controls the Olympics basketball. It's the same exact thing. The Olympics only has a say in where the tournament is held, and how many teams can play. FIBA controls everything else.

It really makes no sense why American NBA fans consider it to be separate things. It isn't, the Olympics basketball is part of FIBA, not a separate entity.


Olympic basketball isn't under FIBA now. It won't be until 2020. Maybe the US should just play the Olympics and ignore rest of FIBA.


And how exactly would the USA team qualify for the Olympics? You have to play the World Cup or the qualifiers to make it to the Olympics, you know.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#108 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:51 am

USA is still overwhelmingly better than the rest of the world combined, even though we lose every now and then with the D team.

You big mad at the US.


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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#109 » by Cassalien » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:24 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
Cassalien wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:2019 FIBA World Cup Quarterfinals:

France 89 - USA 79

Make it 10 losses since 2002. This 2019 FIBA World Cup proved that just a team of 12 NBA rotation players, even if several of them are starters, isn't enough to win even a bronze medal against international competition. Even though lots of teams missed key players at the tournament.

The whole idea that most American sports fans and commentators and "analysts", and even NBA executives and coaches have- that the worst player in the NBA would automatically be the best player anywhere else in the world, is obviously ludicrous and absolutely untrue.


lol what a take. France has 4 NBA players plus the DPOY of the NBA on their team. The best non NBA player on that team is most likely De Colo and he wouldnt even be a second string PG in the NBA cuz his defense was and still is pretty horrible. Gobert was able to do whatever he wanted out there and Kemba didnt look like he wanted to be on the field tonight. There is a reason why NBA and former NBA players light up other leagues around the globe once they are too washed for the NBA or just look at the lockout season and how for example Deron Williams was able to do whatever he wanted to playing in Turkey.

Another team that made the quarter finals in china was the czech republic and they got outplayed badly by the USA and would have again today.

Maybe one day you will realize how inferior the Euroleague is to the NBA or maybe during the upcoming pre season when NBA teams dont give a damn but play against these Euroleague teams again and win almost any game without even trying


So a team of 4 NBA players, none of which is among the very best players in the NBA, is better than a team of 12 NBA players? That's the best argument you can come up with?

This result for Team USA is absolute proof that the NBA is extremely overrated. If the NBA is really so much better than all other leagues, and really is on the level people claim it is, then a team of 12 current NBA players (starters and rotation players) would be invincible at a tournament like this, and wouldn't lose once even in 100 games.

The NBA myth, that has mainly been created through its marketing gimmicks, has been busted immensely with this 2019 US team failing to even get past the quarterfinals, and not even managing to get a bronze medal.


France has a very well put together team. They have the best defensive anchor in the game, Fournier a very good scorer and the other players round out the team very well with the roles they are being put in. then you add the fact that these players have way more cohesion as they have played lots of international games together, just as other posters have stated before me.

Then another thing that france did very well vs the USA was outcoaching them. Pop tried to play small ball but Gobert just had his way against the US boys. There was no stopping a rolling to the basket Gobert. Be it for rebounds or lobs or whatnot.

Also the game was very close towards the end because the individual class of these role players and starters on the US squad just overwhelmed the french team in terms of talent but then the NBA players for france came through and won it for them, not the players from other leagues but the NBA players.

Spain has nba players that make that team a contender, serbia was one of the heavy favorites because they have NBA players but their coach is a double s with his rotations and they lost to argentina and deserved to lose.

After all you can watch these other leagues as much as you want and then realize that they will get smoked if just one or two superstars commit to USAB. There is a good reason the USA hasnt lost a game in 13 years prior to the loss of Australia..and speaking of which (australia)..

They have NBA players that put them over the top of other teams like czech republic. Bogut, who was barely able to get a Job in the NBA was the MVP of the australian basketball league and looks like hakeem vs czech. How come that all these NBA players dominate the international play? The only exception this tournament so far has been serbia losing to argentina which is probably the biggest upset of the tournament
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#110 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:35 pm

Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:Can I name very solid Nba starter, top 50 player, who was nobody in Euroleague and he played there and being nobody for 4 seasons?


You have someone in mind?


Joe Ingles.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats


1. Joe Ingles is a WAY better player now than he was 5 years ago. Just look at his progression within his time in the NBA.
2. Joe Ingles wasn't a nobody in Euroleague. He was a key player on Maccabi Tel-Aviv team that won the championship in 2014,perhaps their best all-around player during Ingles last season in Euroleague. And before that he was a key player on FC Barcelona team that made it to the final four every year.

My definition of a nobody is a bench player who barely sees the floor on a crappy team. Not a key player player on a team that wins the championship.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#111 » by CelticsFTW » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:42 pm

I don't get the whole point of this. So the US send their 4th or 5th best team and lost to a competitor in full strength. What's the deal?

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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#112 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:56 pm

jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
You have someone in mind?


Joe Ingles.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats


1. Joe Ingles is a WAY better player now than he was 5 years ago. Just look at his progression within his time in the NBA.
2. Joe Ingles wasn't a nobody in Euroleague. He was a key player on Maccabi Tel-Aviv team that won the championship in 2014,perhaps their best all-around player during Ingles last season in Euroleague. And before that he was a key player on FC Barcelona team that made it to the final four every year.

My definition of a nobody is a bench player who barely sees the floor on a crappy team. Not a key player player on a team that wins the championship.


5.6/2/2 with not particularly good shooting is your key player? :D He has made in F4 with Maccabi in 2 games, 2 points, 1 rebound and 0 assists, accumulated numbers. Pir -1. :lol: In playoffs before F4 he averaged 4/2/1. Fg% 35. Please be serious. Just for comparison, Rice has averaged 20/4.5/2 in the same F4, with avg. PIR 23.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#113 » by old skool » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:49 pm

59-1 in their last 60 games. Has any team been more dominant in FIBA basketball than the USA?

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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#114 » by BlueSan » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:18 pm

One fun fact about the Olympics guys

The most played and watched sport on Earth Football/Soccer.

How is football handled in Olympics?

Youth teams are playing it....


So yeah... :D
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#115 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:10 pm

Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:


1. Joe Ingles is a WAY better player now than he was 5 years ago. Just look at his progression within his time in the NBA.
2. Joe Ingles wasn't a nobody in Euroleague. He was a key player on Maccabi Tel-Aviv team that won the championship in 2014,perhaps their best all-around player during Ingles last season in Euroleague. And before that he was a key player on FC Barcelona team that made it to the final four every year.

My definition of a nobody is a bench player who barely sees the floor on a crappy team. Not a key player player on a team that wins the championship.


5.6/2/2 with not particularly good shooting is your key player? :D He has made in F4 with Maccabi in 2 games, 2 points, 1 rebound and 0 assists, accumulated numbers. Pir -1. :lol: In playoffs before F4 he averaged 4/2/1. Fg% 35. Please be serious. Just for comparison, Rice has averaged 20/4.5/2 in the same F4, with avg. PIR 23.


Not particular good shooting? Joe had 48% FG, and 42% 3P, that's fantastic. He and Devin Smith were the two best shooters on the team. He was 4th on the team in minutes played. 3rd in Assists, 2nd in steals. Yea, he was a key member of the team.

He averaged 6 points a game, which doesn't sound like a lot, but the leading scorer on that team only averaged 12! Their second leading scorer averaged 10, and every one else was in single digits. David Blatt's offense got everyone involved.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#116 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:25 pm

jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
1. Joe Ingles is a WAY better player now than he was 5 years ago. Just look at his progression within his time in the NBA.
2. Joe Ingles wasn't a nobody in Euroleague. He was a key player on Maccabi Tel-Aviv team that won the championship in 2014,perhaps their best all-around player during Ingles last season in Euroleague. And before that he was a key player on FC Barcelona team that made it to the final four every year.

My definition of a nobody is a bench player who barely sees the floor on a crappy team. Not a key player player on a team that wins the championship.


5.6/2/2 with not particularly good shooting is your key player? :D He has made in F4 with Maccabi in 2 games, 2 points, 1 rebound and 0 assists, accumulated numbers. Pir -1. :lol: In playoffs before F4 he averaged 4/2/1. Fg% 35. Please be serious. Just for comparison, Rice has averaged 20/4.5/2 in the same F4, with avg. PIR 23.


Not particular good shooting? Joe had 48% FG, and 42% 3P, that's fantastic. He and Devin Smith were the two best shooters on the team. He was 4th on the team in minutes played. 3rd in Assists, 2nd in steals. Yea, he was a key member of the team.

He averaged 6 points a game, which doesn't sound like a lot, but the leading scorer on that team only averaged 12! Their second leading scorer averaged 10, and every one else was in single digits. David Blatt's offense got everyone involved.


Do you watch Euroleague? It doesn’t look you do. Regular season is more or less walking in the park for the best teams. Only real advantage is to have home court advantage in playoffs, which Maccabi didn’t have either. The real thing starts in playoffs and in the end only 2 matches in F4 really matters. Ingles in those 6 important matches averaged 3/1.5/1 in 14 minutes of playing. If that is enough to qualify someone as a key player, than he was a key player. The real hero, star or a key player was Rice of course. Who averaged 20 points in F4. Is it normal that key players are playing less than 15 minutes in important matches?

Btw. 6/3/3 is very modest even for low scoring Euroleague.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#117 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:51 pm

Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
5.6/2/2 with not particularly good shooting is your key player? :D He has made in F4 with Maccabi in 2 games, 2 points, 1 rebound and 0 assists, accumulated numbers. Pir -1. :lol: In playoffs before F4 he averaged 4/2/1. Fg% 35. Please be serious. Just for comparison, Rice has averaged 20/4.5/2 in the same F4, with avg. PIR 23.


Not particular good shooting? Joe had 48% FG, and 42% 3P, that's fantastic. He and Devin Smith were the two best shooters on the team. He was 4th on the team in minutes played. 3rd in Assists, 2nd in steals. Yea, he was a key member of the team.

He averaged 6 points a game, which doesn't sound like a lot, but the leading scorer on that team only averaged 12! Their second leading scorer averaged 10, and every one else was in single digits. David Blatt's offense got everyone involved.


Do you watch Euroleague? It doesn’t look you do. Regular season is more or less walking in the park for the best teams. Only real advantage is to have home court advantage in playoffs, which Maccabi didn’t have either. The real thing starts in playoffs and in the end only 2 matches in F4 really matters. Ingles in those 6 important matches averaged 3/1.5/1 in 14 minutes of playing. If that is enough to qualify someone as a key player, than he was a key player. The real hero, star or a key player was Rice of course. Who averaged 20 points in F4. Is it normal that key players are playing less than 15 minutes in important matches?

Btw. 6/3/3 is very modest even for low scoring Euroleague.


The Final4 is 2 games. The rest of the season Joe Ingles played 28 games. I put more weight on those 28 games, then I do on 2 games. Ingles played less in the championship game because Real Madrid rolled out 3 guard in crunch time - Rudy, Sergio Rodriguez, Llull, and Blatt went with 3 guards as well to match. You can't judge Ingles euroleague season on matchups in that game, or in just a handful of other games.

Nor is it really that relevant anyway, as I said..Joe Ingles in 2014 was not a top 50 NBA player. Not even close. It took him 3 years in the league to reach his prime. Dude has gotten better every year.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#118 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:58 pm

BlueSan wrote:One fun fact about the Olympics guys

The most played and watched sport on Earth Football/Soccer.

How is football handled in Olympics?

Youth teams are playing it....


So yeah... :D



I mean, if they only sent U-23 players like in Football the US would probably win for the foreseeable future off depth alone.


The rest of the world is so competitive at basketball now because they have pros, restricting that to U-23 only helps the US. France wouldn't have Gobert or Founier on their team if it were U-23.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#119 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:04 pm

jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
Not particular good shooting? Joe had 48% FG, and 42% 3P, that's fantastic. He and Devin Smith were the two best shooters on the team. He was 4th on the team in minutes played. 3rd in Assists, 2nd in steals. Yea, he was a key member of the team.

He averaged 6 points a game, which doesn't sound like a lot, but the leading scorer on that team only averaged 12! Their second leading scorer averaged 10, and every one else was in single digits. David Blatt's offense got everyone involved.


Do you watch Euroleague? It doesn’t look you do. Regular season is more or less walking in the park for the best teams. Only real advantage is to have home court advantage in playoffs, which Maccabi didn’t have either. The real thing starts in playoffs and in the end only 2 matches in F4 really matters. Ingles in those 6 important matches averaged 3/1.5/1 in 14 minutes of playing. If that is enough to qualify someone as a key player, than he was a key player. The real hero, star or a key player was Rice of course. Who averaged 20 points in F4. Is it normal that key players are playing less than 15 minutes in important matches?

Btw. 6/3/3 is very modest even for low scoring Euroleague.


The Final4 is 2 games. The rest of the season Joe Ingles played 28 games. I put more weight on those 28 games, then I do on 2 games. Ingles played less in the championship game because Real Madrid rolled out 3 guard in crunch time - Rudy, Sergio Rodriguez, Llull, and Blatt went with 3 guards as well to match. You can't judge Ingles euroleague season on matchups in that game, or in just a handful of other games.


He was nonexistent in F4, against Real and Cska. Made 2 points combined. He was bad in playoffs(4games), he avg. 4 points in playoffs and he was average in regular season.

You’re arguing with me about a player, whose career stats in EuroLeague are 5.6/2/2. Really?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#120 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:17 pm

Bob8 wrote:
jinxed wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Do you watch Euroleague? It doesn’t look you do. Regular season is more or less walking in the park for the best teams. Only real advantage is to have home court advantage in playoffs, which Maccabi didn’t have either. The real thing starts in playoffs and in the end only 2 matches in F4 really matters. Ingles in those 6 important matches averaged 3/1.5/1 in 14 minutes of playing. If that is enough to qualify someone as a key player, than he was a key player. The real hero, star or a key player was Rice of course. Who averaged 20 points in F4. Is it normal that key players are playing less than 15 minutes in important matches?

Btw. 6/3/3 is very modest even for low scoring Euroleague.


The Final4 is 2 games. The rest of the season Joe Ingles played 28 games. I put more weight on those 28 games, then I do on 2 games. Ingles played less in the championship game because Real Madrid rolled out 3 guard in crunch time - Rudy, Sergio Rodriguez, Llull, and Blatt went with 3 guards as well to match. You can't judge Ingles euroleague season on matchups in that game, or in just a handful of other games.


He was nonexistent in F4, against Real and Cska. Made 2 points combined. He was bad in playoffs(4games), he avg. 4 points in playoffs and he was average in regular season.

You’re arguing with me about a player, whose career stats in EuroLeague are 5.6/2/2. Really?


A *nobody* in Euroleague is a bench player in a crappy team. Not the guy who plays the 4th most minutes on the Championship team. End of story. And before Maccabi he was on the all-time great Barca team that went 58-14 in his 3 years there (and somehow blew it in the F4).

In 2013, Joe Ingles played 33 minute in the F4 semis for Barca, and started in the Bronze medal game.
In 2012, Joe Ingles was the 2nd leading scorer in the Bronze medal game for Barca.

To say he was a nobody in Euroleague is ridiculous.


When you can find me a player who is a true nobody (bench player on bad team in euroleague), while still in his prime, and was NBA starter the year before (Mirotic's original statement was there are multiple players like this every year, but he was unable to name any in history)..let me know.
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