USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 11 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002

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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#81 » by jinxed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:52 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:All of those guys played in the NBA. They are by definition, NBA level players.

The USA and NBA have the best players. Basketball isn't just about a collection of players. It's a team game and chemistry matters. All those teams had far greater chemistry than the US.

The question you need to ask yourself is..how come none of those Euroleague stars were anything more than bench players in the NBA?


I don't believe that Gianluca Basile ever played in the NBA. I don't remember him ever being in the NBA.

Also, a lot of NBA starters have gone to the EuroLeague and been terrible players. So ask yourself the question, why is that?


Here is how good I think the Euroleague is. I think the very best Euroleague teams would win about 30 games (CSKA) in the NBA. Which is actually pretty good. That's because the best Euroleague teams feature players in their prime, while the bottom feeders in the NBA have lots of young, developing talent that they are giving minutes too.

The greatest Euroleague teams of all-time, such as the 2010 Barca team would compete for the playoffs in the East.

What about you? How many games would CSKA win in the NBA?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#82 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:57 pm

BallerTalk wrote:Are you really counting prep games?
Isn't that like counting preseason games in the NBA?

Yep, no desperate agenda here.


I'm not counting them - USA Basketball is counting them. USA basketball and also USA sports media INSIST on counting them. Your beef is with USA Basketball and USA sports media.
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Re: 12 NBA Players Team USA's 9 Losses In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#83 » by jason bourne » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:I'm starting to get an Anti-American vibe from these threads. Every. Single. Loss. Is brought up and made into a thread this summer. I don't even know of anyone that's excited or watching the team this year. No one in America seems to care about Fiba. Only the Olympics. People get so excited after every loss. I haven't watched a second of a Team USA game and I know they lost at least 3 times and another time to a G-League squad in practice, just because of the amount of threads. I haven't seen a thread about a win though.

The only thing I cared about this Fiba Tournament was how Montenegro, Nigeria, and France was doing because of Nikola Vucevic, Al-Farouq Aminu, and Evan Fournier. That's it.


For some reason, 90% of this forum always puts the Olympics and FIBA as two separate things.......however, FIBA runs and controls the Olympics basketball. It's the same exact thing. The Olympics only has a say in where the tournament is held, and how many teams can play. FIBA controls everything else.

It really makes no sense why American NBA fans consider it to be separate things. It isn't, the Olympics basketball is part of FIBA, not a separate entity.


Olympic basketball isn't under FIBA now. It won't be until 2020. Maybe the US should just play the Olympics and ignore rest of FIBA.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#84 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 pm

jason bourne wrote:Olympic basketball isn't under FIBA now. It won't be until 2020. Maybe the US should just play the Olympics and ignore rest of FIBA.


FIBA controls all international basketball tournaments, including the Olympics. The Olympics has say only in what city the tournament takes place, when it takes place, and how many teams are allowed in the tournament. Everything else is entirely controlled by FIBA.

The head of FIBA runs the entire Olympics basketball setup. FIBA has been running Olympics basketball for decades and decades. The Olympics did not allow NBA players, FIBA, who runs it, allowed NBA players. That's just one example.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#85 » by Bayside » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:07 pm

Lots of rationalizing a loss. No hate. I think the embarrassment and acceptance is just too hard for fragile egos. Maybe this can be a stimulus for culture change regarding World Cup events.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#86 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:08 pm

jinxed wrote:Like who? At their prime? As in they could have been an NBA starter, but then went to Euroleague and sucked?

Are you talking about all the past Euroleague MVP's?

2019 - Jan Vesely - NBA washout
2018- Doncic -- 18 years old.
2017 - Sergio Llull-- very good player, wouldn't start in NBA. That's why he won't come over.
2016 - Nando De Colo - Role player in NBA.
2015 - Bjelica - role player in NBA
2014 - Sergio Rodriguez - role player
2013- Spanoulis - couldn't get off the bench.

Dude, I like the Euroleague. I watch it. It's a very good league. The NBA is still way better.


Every single year on average, about 10-12 NBA players that were rotation players, NBA 6th men, and NBA starters from the previous seasons, go to EuroLeague. I would say that on average, 2/3's of them have been nothing more than OK players in EuroLeague, and 1/3 of them have been bad - with numerous ones being outright scrubs, and often even cut for poor play.
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Re: 12 NBA Players Team USA's 9 Losses In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#87 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:14 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:Understood. But clearly we in the US don't care about just the Fiba portion of it. We like the bigger spectacle of the Olympics much more. Not just fans, but the players. If that weren't true, LeBron, AD, KD, Curry, Leonard, etc, would all be out there during this. But no one in the US cares. It's cool to celebrate a teams wins, but these threads are clearly about celebrating the US losing.


I understand that and it's obviously true. But the Olympics is only preferred by NBA players as a marketing and money angle. Basketball-wise it's the same thing, only actually the World Cup is an obviously bigger and higher level tournament, with a lot more good teams than the Olympics.

It makes sense why NBA players want the focus on the Olympics (because of money), and why Americans in general focus on it, but for basketball fans specifically (like in this forum), it's actually counter intuitive........because from a basketball standpoint, the World Cup is a far superior competition to Olympics basketball.

Just because NBA players want the focus of the Olympic media spotlight and marketing money, does not mean sports and basketball fans in USA should fail to understand the FIBA World Cup is a much better competition.


Probably because we consider it a lesser level of competition compared to the NBA - a side show - played under weird rules, run by corrupt organizations, judged by what we consider non-professional referees, and played at weird hours of the day. 8-)

But hey, if somehow team USA could had hooked Zion in to playing, I bet viewership and general interest would have bumped nicely just to get a chance to see him play against a new level of competition.

Personally, I'm a Cavaliers fan, not a basketball junkie.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#88 » by jinxed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:Like who? At their prime? As in they could have been an NBA starter, but then went to Euroleague and sucked?

Are you talking about all the past Euroleague MVP's?

2019 - Jan Vesely - NBA washout
2018- Doncic -- 18 years old.
2017 - Sergio Llull-- very good player, wouldn't start in NBA. That's why he won't come over.
2016 - Nando De Colo - Role player in NBA.
2015 - Bjelica - role player in NBA
2014 - Sergio Rodriguez - role player
2013- Spanoulis - couldn't get off the bench.

Dude, I like the Euroleague. I watch it. It's a very good league. The NBA is still way better.


Every single year on average, about 10-12 NBA players that were rotation players, NBA 6th men, and NBA starters from the previous season, go to EuroLeague. I would say that on average, 2/3's of them have been nothing more than OK players in EuroLeague, and 1/3 of them have been bad - with numerous ones being outright scrubs, and often even cut for poor play.


Name them. Name the NBA STARTER who was a scrub in Euroleague, while still in his prime.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#89 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:39 pm

jinxed wrote:Name them. Name the NBA STARTER who was a scrub in Euroleague, while still in his prime.


If you really followed EuroLeague closely you would know there are numerous such examples.

Here, if you need to know, scroll through the list of players at EuroLeague's site --->

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players?listtype=alltime

Just players who have played in EuroLeague since the year 2000, are listed there. But all kinds of such NBA players have left the NBA, gone to EuroLeague and been average players, OK players, role players, or been crap players, or even cut for poor play.

Anyone that has followed EuroLeague closely for at least 5 years or so knows that.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#90 » by jason bourne » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:41 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jason bourne wrote:Olympic basketball isn't under FIBA now. It won't be until 2020. Maybe the US should just play the Olympics and ignore rest of FIBA.


FIBA controls all international basketball tournaments, including the Olympics. The Olympics has say only in what city the tournament takes place, when it takes place, and how many teams are allowed in the tournament. Everything else is entirely controlled by FIBA.

The head of FIBA runs the entire Olympics basketball setup. FIBA has been running Olympics basketball for decades and decades. The Olympics did not allow NBA players, FIBA, who runs it, allowed NBA players. That's just one example.


Okay. As far as I know, the Team USA fans do not care about FIBA world cup. The Olympics is more a big deal and Team USA record shows it. What happened to your FIBA teams then if national teams are such a big deal with you?

That's why it would probably be better for the Team USA players to just get up every four years and put together their best team. Maybe the USA loses out missing FIBA, but many US fans do not care about FIBA. Why? Maybe they don't like the format or the rules. The USA is a melting pot and maybe it's difficult seeing your team players play for their national team. I don't know. I watched the full game highlights. Tried to watch the regular game a couple of times (both USA and other teams), but couldn't get into it. I can see why some of the matches are close, but also why watching is not compelling. We may know Giannis on the Greece team, but know no one else. I don't know how else to explain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_men%27s_national_basketball_team
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#91 » by dantas » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:10 pm

Basketball is booming all over the world. The Brazilian professional league (nbb) only started in 2008. In the same year, the "Liga das americas" (equivalent of euroleague in latin america) was founded. Only 10 years of professional league. In Europe, there was a great deal of instability in the Yugoslav wars and the breakup of the Soviet Union.

Basketball is still in its infancy outside the US and Europe. It will be increasingly competitive in the coming years. Watch out, America!
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#92 » by jinxed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:13 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:Name them. Name the NBA STARTER who was a scrub in Euroleague, while still in his prime.


If you really followed EuroLeague closely you would know there are numerous such examples.

Here, if you need to know, scroll through the list of players at EuroLeague's site --->

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players?listtype=alltime

Just players who have played in EuroLeague since the year 2000, are listed there. But all kinds of such NBA players have left the NBA, gone to EuroLeague and been average players, OK players, role players, or been crap players, or even cut for poor play.

Anyone that has followed EuroLeague closely for at least 5 years or so knows that.


Then it should be really easy for you to name ONE single NBA starter who left the NBA as a starter and went to the Euroleague and was a scrub. Let alone, multiple every year as you originally claimed. Why can't you do it? Why can't you produce one name?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#93 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:26 pm

jinxed wrote:Then it should be really easy for you to name ONE single NBA starter who left the NBA as a starter and went to the Euroleague and was a scrub. Why can't you do it? Why can't you produce one name?


I can list all kinds. The last one that stands out to me of being an extreme example was that Olympiacos player from a couple years ago. Hollis Thompson. He was the team's worst player, eventually got dropped from the rotation, then got cut for his awful play. This after playing 4 years as a 6th man - 7th man (part time starter) type player in the NBA, and at the age of 26.

There are probably more than a dozen such examples just in recent years. There are plenty of examples of NBA starters also failing in EuroLeague, but I give that one example above because it was such an obvious example. To everyone following Olympiacos he was the worst player they had.........

The whole, "why didn't X player from EuroLeague do as well in NBA" argument never proves anything because the same exact thing happens the other way. NBA players are busts in EuroLeague all the time.

Some of the so called good NBA players didn't even play well in EuroLeague. Dragic comes to mind...........he was at best an average player in EuroLeague before the NBA, went back during the NBA lockout and was a 3rd string point guard......

etc., etc., etc.

If you followed the EuroLeague closely for awhile, you would know this already. A lot of EuroLeague fans actually dread when their teams go after NBA players, because they have had so many of them become busts in the past.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#94 » by jinxed » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:48 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:Then it should be really easy for you to name ONE single NBA starter who left the NBA as a starter and went to the Euroleague and was a scrub. Why can't you do it? Why can't you produce one name?


I can list all kinds. The last one that stands out to me of being an extreme example was that Olympiacos player from a couple years ago. Hollis Thompson. He was the team's worst player, eventually got dropped from the rotation, then got cut for his awful play. This after playing 4 years as a 6th man - 7th man (part time starter) type player in the NBA, and at the age of 26.

There are probably more than a dozen such examples just in recent years. There are plenty of examples of NBA starters also failing in EuroLeague, but I give that one example above because it was such an obvious example. To everyone following Olympiacos he was the worst player they had.........

The whole, "why didn't X player from EuroLeague do as well in NBA" argument never proves anything because the same exact thing happens the other way. NBA players are busts in EuroLeague all the time.

Some of the so called good NBA players didn't even play well in EuroLeague. Dragic comes to mind...........he was at best an average player in EuroLeague before the NBA, went back during the NBA lockout and was a 3rd string point guard......

etc., etc., etc.

If you followed the EuroLeague closely for awhile, you would know this already. A lot of EuroLeague fans actually dread when their teams go after NBA players, because they have had so many of them become busts in the past.
++

Ah yes, the great Hollis Thompson of the AUSTIN Spurs, who was already out of the NBA and playing the D-League before signing with Olympiacos.

Nope, that does not count as an example of a good NBA STARTER who left in his prime to go to the Euroleague and was a bust.

And Goran Dragic..LOL.. are you talking about the TWO games he played in for Caja Laboral immediately after signing, without getting to practice much for them and came in off the bench after Prigioni because he didn't know the team, the offense or anything, before going back to the NBA two weeks (literally) later? Are you talking about before he got to the NBA when he was all of 20 years old?

We are still waiting on you to name an NBA starter who went to Euroleague and was a bust during his prime. Just one name please.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#95 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:03 am

jinxed wrote:Ah yes, the great Hollis Thompson of the AUSTIN Spurs, who was already out of the NBA and playing the D-League before signing with Olympiacos.

Nope, that does not count as an example of a good NBA STARTER who left in his prime to go to the Euroleague and was a bust.

And Goran Dragic..LOL.. are you talking about the TWO games he played in for Caja Laboral immediately after signing, without getting to practice much for them and came in off the bench after Prigioni because he didn't know the team, the offense or anything, before going back to the NBA two weeks (literally) later? Are you talking about before he got to the NBA when he was all of 20 years old?

We are still waiting on you to name an NBA starter who went to Euroleague and was a bust during his prime. Just one name please.


Patrick Beverley was a third string player in EuroLeague. We can go through a long list of such examples. Your last post shows you are not being at all genuine in having an actual debate.

Hell, just using European players only, many of them came right from the NBA, where they had good roles and were busts. Gordan Giricek, Nenad Krstic - just from recent years, all we heard was how "they would dominate EuroLeague", and they came to EuroLeague and did absolutely nothing. Udrih also, but I wouldn't count him since he was old and wasn't a starter but a rotation player. A lot more American NBA players were busts in EuroLeague.

Patrick Beverley was a third stringer in EuroLeague.

Hell, Brandon Jennings was one of the worst players on his EuroLeague team, then a few months later he scored 55 points in an NBA game. You can make up whatever NBA only fan talking points you want. But that's all it is.

A few years ago they were, "but Trajan Langdon", "but Anthony Parker".........

I am sorry, but you keep saying you watch EuroLeague, then you claim an NBA starter never failed in EuroLeague, which is way untrue, and simply no one that follows EuroLeague would believe that, because it's happened many times. It's very hard to take it at all seriously.

Especially when you just say "one name please", and I gave you the list of EuroLeague players since 2000, from which someone that actually watches EuroLeague would know, and would easily find numerous such examples. It was a test, to see if you really watched EuroLeague that much at all, and you failed.

You would very quickly find names from the list at that link of NBA starters that failed in EuroLeague - if you really did follow EuroLeague.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#96 » by Mirotic12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:20 am

OK, so this is how hard it is for someone who follows EuroLeague to find a guy that was a starter in NBA and a scrub in EuroLeague.

You go to the first page, the A list of names that have played in EuroLeague, and on the first page, the first page of just the last names starting with A, the first letter of the alphabet...............

already I found Anthony Avent who was a starter / rotation player in the NBA, and a scrub in EuroLeague. It was that hard to find an example, on page one of the list of players I already found an example just under the names starting with the letter A........it took like 30 seconds probably to find one.

You can't have followed EuroLeague hardly at all if you don't know all kinds of players that were starters in NBA were average players, or even busts in EuroLeague. If you had really been following EuroLeague you would remember so many such instances.

https://www.euroleague.net/competition/players?listtype=alltime

Since it was so easy to find an example just off the first page of the list of players, I'm not going to waste anymore time with it.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#97 » by Bob8 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:45 am

jinxed wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:Then it should be really easy for you to name ONE single NBA starter who left the NBA as a starter and went to the Euroleague and was a scrub. Why can't you do it? Why can't you produce one name?


I can list all kinds. The last one that stands out to me of being an extreme example was that Olympiacos player from a couple years ago. Hollis Thompson. He was the team's worst player, eventually got dropped from the rotation, then got cut for his awful play. This after playing 4 years as a 6th man - 7th man (part time starter) type player in the NBA, and at the age of 26.

There are probably more than a dozen such examples just in recent years. There are plenty of examples of NBA starters also failing in EuroLeague, but I give that one example above because it was such an obvious example. To everyone following Olympiacos he was the worst player they had.........

The whole, "why didn't X player from EuroLeague do as well in NBA" argument never proves anything because the same exact thing happens the other way. NBA players are busts in EuroLeague all the time.

Some of the so called good NBA players didn't even play well in EuroLeague. Dragic comes to mind...........he was at best an average player in EuroLeague before the NBA, went back during the NBA lockout and was a 3rd string point guard......

etc., etc., etc.

If you followed the EuroLeague closely for awhile, you would know this already. A lot of EuroLeague fans actually dread when their teams go after NBA players, because they have had so many of them become busts in the past.
++

Ah yes, the great Hollis Thompson of the AUSTIN Spurs, who was already out of the NBA and playing the D-League before signing with Olympiacos.

Nope, that does not count as an example of a good NBA STARTER who left in his prime to go to the Euroleague and was a bust.

And Goran Dragic..LOL.. are you talking about the TWO games he played in for Caja Laboral immediately after signing, without getting to practice much for them and came in off the bench after Prigioni because he didn't know the team, the offense or anything, before going back to the NBA two weeks (literally) later? Are you talking about before he got to the NBA when he was all of 20 years old?

We are still waiting on you to name an NBA starter who went to Euroleague and was a bust during his prime. Just one name please.


Can I name very solid Nba starter, top 50 player, who was nobody in Euroleague and he played there and being nobody for 4 seasons?
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#98 » by homecourtloss » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:11 am

[*]
The4thHorseman wrote:
loveandbeer wrote:If I were American I'd just be straight up embarrassed to be honest.

Guys here saying otherwise are just salty. Just take the L. It can happen but for sure it's embarrassing as hell.

No shame in admitting it IMO.

Most Americans don't even know the tournament is taking place.


“Embarrassing as hell” “salty” :lol: :lol:

For Argentinians or Spaniards or Serbs or whoever else, a FIBA WC title means a great deal as does an Olympic medal and that’s great.

But, I highly, HIGHLY doubt there is any American who would trade an NBA title for his team for a FIBA title or Olympic gold medal. Nobody cares about this tournament here and that’s just a reality and not downplaying anything.
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Re: 12 NBA Players Team USA's 9 Losses In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#99 » by JordansBulls » Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:41 am

GusT15 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
In the following losses, Team USA's opponents had zero players that had ever played in the NBA on their roster.



2006 FIBA World Cup:
Greece 101 - USA 95



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:P



Yes Lebron was on this team as well as on the 2004 Olympic team with peak Duncan. Still can't believe they lost to Puerto Rico whose best player was Carlos Arroyo. :lol:
FIBA and Olympics are more important than titles and/or winning championships or stats in the NBA as they show if you are better than the rest of the world. If you can't beat Puerto Rico or Greece, then it shows the NBA caters to it's stars, while FIBA/Olympics will treat everyone equally.
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Re: USA Teams With 12 NBA Players Have Lost 10 Times In FIBA Play Since 2002 

Post#100 » by jinxed » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:23 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
jinxed wrote:Ah yes, the great Hollis Thompson of the AUSTIN Spurs, who was already out of the NBA and playing the D-League before signing with Olympiacos.

Nope, that does not count as an example of a good NBA STARTER who left in his prime to go to the Euroleague and was a bust.

And Goran Dragic..LOL.. are you talking about the TWO games he played in for Caja Laboral immediately after signing, without getting to practice much for them and came in off the bench after Prigioni because he didn't know the team, the offense or anything, before going back to the NBA two weeks (literally) later? Are you talking about before he got to the NBA when he was all of 20 years old?

We are still waiting on you to name an NBA starter who went to Euroleague and was a bust during his prime. Just one name please.


Patrick Beverley was a third string player in EuroLeague. We can go through a long list of such examples. Your last post shows you are not being at all genuine in having an actual debate.

Hell, just using European players only, many of them came right from the NBA, where they had good roles and were busts. Gordan Giricek, Nenad Krstic - just from recent years, all we heard was how "they would dominate EuroLeague", and they came to EuroLeague and did absolutely nothing. Udrih also, but I wouldn't count him since he was old and wasn't a starter but a rotation player. A lot more American NBA players were busts in EuroLeague.

Patrick Beverley was a third stringer in EuroLeague.

Hell, Brandon Jennings was one of the worst players on his EuroLeague team, then a few months later he scored 55 points in an NBA game. You can make up whatever NBA only fan talking points you want. But that's all it is.

A few years ago they were, "but Trajan Langdon", "but Anthony Parker".........

I am sorry, but you keep saying you watch EuroLeague, then you claim an NBA starter never failed in EuroLeague, which is way untrue, and simply no one that follows EuroLeague would believe that, because it's happened many times. It's very hard to take it at all seriously.

Especially when you just say "one name please", and I gave you the list of EuroLeague players since 2000, from which someone that actually watches EuroLeague would know, and would easily find numerous such examples. It was a test, to see if you really watched EuroLeague that much at all, and you failed.

You would very quickly find names from the list at that link of NBA starters that failed in EuroLeague - if you really did follow EuroLeague.


Beverly, when he was a "3rd stringer" in Euroleague was actually 8th on the team in minutes, and was the third guard behind Teodosic and Scoonie Penn. But here's the kicker..he was 21 years old. A baby still. His next season in Europe, he played for a Russian team in the EuroCup. He was the EuroCup MVP and best player on his team(obviously, since he was the MVP).

Brandon Jennings was 19 years old when he played in euroleague.

Giricek had played himself out of the NBA by the time he went back to Euroleague. He was trash by 2008, getting in only 14 minutes a game, and his BPM was -3.5.

Nenad Kristic in his first year in the Euroleague after leaving the NBA was named All-Euroleage first team. And then the following season, he was All Euroleague First team again! I don't know how it works in Euroleague as well as you, but do scrubs who fail in the Euroleague get voted to the All-Euroleague first team? He wasn't a top 200 player in the NBA, but he was 1st team all Euroleague.

Anthony Avent played 3 games in the Euroleague in 2001 after failing out of the NBA, where in his last season he averaged a whopping 1.7 points per game in 7 minutes a game. Wow, what an example of a good NBA player who failed in Euroleague!

You still haven't been able to name a single NBA starter, who went to Euroleague still in their prime and was a bust. Not one.

You just keep bring up guys who had played themselves out of the NBA, or babies around their 20th birthday.

Meanwhile the list of Euroleague MVP's who have come to the NBA and not been able to stick is long and vast.
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