Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player?

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Is Tatum a franchise player?

Yes
111
24%
No
356
76%
 
Total votes: 467

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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#221 » by Clyde Ward » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:03 pm

going by where it stands today - i would say no.

down the line, i see Tatum realistically ending up as a 2nd / 3rd option on a contender.

he is very young - so i wouldn't be shocked to see him take a dramatic jump in year 4/5 and reach that next level. it's something very few players are able to do so i wouldn't feel comfortable banking on it.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#222 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:28 pm

Honest question, why do many think he has a cap to his ceiling? I see a lot of he could be a top 10 guy but never a top 5 guy. Why is that?

I see people bring up the lack of elite athleticism. Where does that hinder his game? Doesn't slow him down on the defensive end, he is already elite on that side of the ball. On the offensive end he is a career finisher at the rim with a 64% clip and last year shot 68% at the rim. Those are pretty damn good numbers for his age. Its also not like he is Joe Ingles out there, he moves pretty well and actually dunks on a good amount of guys.

I feel like facilitating is his biggest weakness, but 3 assists a game isn't all that bad for a 21 year old wing. Kawhi has a career average of 2.6 assists per game and this year is the first year he has averaged more than 3 per game.

Im totally biased in this, but I dont think its all that crazy to think he could be contending for MVPs when he hits his prime.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#223 » by The Comedian » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:55 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Honest question, why do many think he has a cap to his ceiling? I see a lot of he could be a top 10 guy but never a top 5 guy. Why is that?

I see people bring up the lack of elite athleticism. Where does that hinder his game? Doesn't slow him down on the defensive end, he is already elite on that side of the ball. On the offensive end he is a career finisher at the rim with a 64% clip and last year shot 68% at the rim. Those are pretty damn good numbers for his age. Its also not like he is Joe Ingles out there, he moves pretty well and actually dunks on a good amount of guys.

I feel like facilitating is his biggest weakness, but 3 assists a game isn't all that bad for a 21 year old wing. Kawhi has a career average of 2.6 assists per game and this year is the first year he has averaged more than 3 per game.

Im totally biased in this, but I dont think its all that crazy to think he could be contending for MVPs when he hits his prime.


I'm not calling out any specific posters, and obviously it's not the case with all of them. But people are really stubborn about letting go of their initial impressions.

He's an elite shooter, he's elite as creating his own shot, his finishing has normalized, he's getting to the line more and more as the season goes on, and his assist % has jumped 40% from last season. Creating for others is clearly his weakness, but he's shown a real improvement so far. He's 21, the clear best player on a fringe contender, and an elite defensive player. What exactly caps his ceiling at this point?
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#224 » by Darth Celtic » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:00 am

I find it interesting that nets fans have such an investment in discrediting the celtics young players. I know we stole Tatum and Brown from you and treated your GM like a rebound date without calling back, but you need to let it go. 90% Celtics fans have let Kyrie go and don't care anymore and that just happened. So odd.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#225 » by peachbucket » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:38 am

I think a better question is can Jason Tatum become the primary option on a championship level team...and that answer is a resounding YES. As good as he is now, he is nowhere close to his ceiling which imo is an MVP caliber player. Still lots of room to improve physically, bball iq, and skillset.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#226 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:39 am

I'm usually against bumping threads, however when people obviously hate on a player because of the name on the jersey they def should get called out if they're wrong, especially if they miss on two predictions...... Still unsure if Tatum will become a franchise/#1 but it's obvious now that he's not Rudy Gay or Tobias Harris 2.0.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#227 » by robbie84 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:46 am

I mean he just scored 39 points with 9 rebounds against arguably the best team in the NBA.

This wasn't some kind of fluke game either.
He's put up plenty of these big games lately and he's still doing it on BOTH ends like a truly impactful franchise guy.

At his age, he definitely looks like he's got a great chance of becoming a franchise level player in his prime. He's 22, as if he can't be a Paul George guy or better by the time he's 26 to 30 years old?
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#228 » by Patsfan1081 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:49 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Honest question, why do many think he has a cap to his ceiling? I see a lot of he could be a top 10 guy but never a top 5 guy. Why is that?

I see people bring up the lack of elite athleticism. Where does that hinder his game? Doesn't slow him down on the defensive end, he is already elite on that side of the ball. On the offensive end he is a career finisher at the rim with a 64% clip and last year shot 68% at the rim. Those are pretty damn good numbers for his age. Its also not like he is Joe Ingles out there, he moves pretty well and actually dunks on a good amount of guys.

I feel like facilitating is his biggest weakness, but 3 assists a game isn't all that bad for a 21 year old wing. Kawhi has a career average of 2.6 assists per game and this year is the first year he has averaged more than 3 per game.

Im totally biased in this, but I dont think its all that crazy to think he could be contending for MVPs when he hits his prime.


People had Tatum's ceiling perceived befor he even played a nba game, athlectism prob playing the biggest part. It's odd people are still doing it even after he keeps proving them wrong. Wasn't he supposed to be just a mid range shooter with no defense? It also takes time for wings to develope their passing ability/IQ, people forget how stars like Leonard and George played their first few years in the league. With his work ethic and what we've seen so far I wouldn't put a cap on his game.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#229 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:51 am

Lalouie wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I see alot of comments on amongst nba fans and seen this exact argument on facebook. [b]Half say Franchise player or star in the making [/b]and the Other say that he’s overrated


well, which is it?

if he was a franchise player he and bos would've done better last year


Wonder what Giannis or even Kawhi were doing when they were ~20, ~21, also wonder how well George and Butler did when they were at that age on a broken team, with a delusional "leader", who did everything to lose in the playoffs and make it all bout himself while jacking up 21 shots a game, routinely picking up Giannis on defense and more.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#230 » by Fencer reregistered » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:58 am

Duke4life831 wrote:Honest question, why do many think he has a cap to his ceiling? I see a lot of he could be a top 10 guy but never a top 5 guy. Why is that?

I see people bring up the lack of elite athleticism. Where does that hinder his game? Doesn't slow him down on the defensive end, he is already elite on that side of the ball. On the offensive end he is a career finisher at the rim with a 64% clip and last year shot 68% at the rim. Those are pretty damn good numbers for his age. Its also not like he is Joe Ingles out there, he moves pretty well and actually dunks on a good amount of guys.

I feel like facilitating is his biggest weakness, but 3 assists a game isn't all that bad for a 21 year old wing. Kawhi has a career average of 2.6 assists per game and this year is the first year he has averaged more than 3 per game.

Im totally biased in this, but I dont think its all that crazy to think he could be contending for MVPs when he hits his prime.


Historically, most guys who've won MVP awards have been far superior to Tatum in body (e.g. Giannis), passing vision (e.g. Nash), or both (e.g. Lebron). But more recently a lot of MVP awards have gone to scoring guards, and there's no obvious ceiling that inevitably holds him below those guys. Still, that stretch of scoring-guard MVPs feels like a bit of an aberration, and indeed we now have Giannis as incumbent MVP with Doncic as perhaps the guy who'll eventually unseat him and Zion waiting in the wings. Realistically, I think Tatum's plausible ceiling is one or more top 5 MVP finishes without ever being MVP.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#231 » by iggymcfrack » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:26 am

Clyde Ward wrote:going by where it stands today - i would say no.

down the line, i see Tatum realistically ending up as a 2nd / 3rd option on a contender.

he is very young - so i wouldn't be shocked to see him take a dramatic jump in year 4/5 and reach that next level. it's something very few players are able to do so i wouldn't feel comfortable banking on it.


You’ve gotta be kidding me. “Down the line he could be be the second/third option on a contender”? He’s 21 years old and he’s already the #1 option on a contender RIGHT NOW. He’s also a very legitimate DPOY candidate. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention but he’s making that big leap you talk about being possible down the line this season. I wouldn’t trade him straight up for anyone in the league except Giannis, Luka, or Zion. He’s a can’t miss superstar.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#232 » by Lalouie » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:14 am

FlatearthZorro wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I see alot of comments on amongst nba fans and seen this exact argument on facebook. [b]Half say Franchise player or star in the making [/b]and the Other say that he’s overrated


well, which is it?

if he was a franchise player he and bos would've done better last year


Wonder what Giannis or even Kawhi were doing when they were ~20, ~21, also wonder how well George and Butler did when they were at that age on a broken team, with a delusional "leader", who did everything to lose in the playoffs and make it all bout himself while jacking up 21 shots a game, routinely picking up Giannis on defense and more.


i would not bet money on hope.
and kawhi and giannis are "late bloomers" wouldn't you say?

tatum was a 5* top5 high school player so i would have more expectations. there is always a leveling off as players reach their ceiling. late bloomers have a slower arc and players like tatum get there faster, but they all have nearly the same ceiling...a little higher and you're magic or bird,,a little higher still and you're kareem or mj. if tatum were to have continued on his arc he would be playing like god but i have to assume he's like most players and closed in on his ceiling earlier.

true "franchise players" are few and far between. they don't grow in bushels. so then i guess the question is "what is a franchise player". is it a lebron franchise player(as is giannis) - a LEADER, or a tagged franchise player like *ugh* lavine/booker.

just saying i don't feel it with tatum or say ingram like i do (we all do) luka. you see it you feel it, sometimes.
one thing i have to say about that mish mosh in boston last year. i distinctly had the feeling the boston youngsters were acting entitled. to wit: they had early success the year before and i think they felt like they were da sh** and who's this sad excuse of a leader kyrie. to me a true franchise player is above that cr@p
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#233 » by LuckyLeprechaun » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:17 am

Lalouie wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
well, which is it?

if he was a franchise player he and bos would've done better last year


Wonder what Giannis or even Kawhi were doing when they were ~20, ~21, also wonder how well George and Butler did when they were at that age on a broken team, with a delusional "leader", who did everything to lose in the playoffs and make it all bout himself while jacking up 21 shots a game, routinely picking up Giannis on defense and more.


i would not bet money on hope.
and kawhi and giannis are "late bloomers" wouldn't you say?

tatum was a 5* top5 high school player so i would have more expectations. there is always a leveling off as players reach their ceiling. late bloomers have a slower arc and players like tatum get there faster, but they all have nearly the same ceiling...a little higher and you're magic or bird,,a little higher still and you're kareem or mj. if tatum were to have continued on his arc he would be playing like god but i have to assume he's like most players and closed in on his ceiling earlier.

true "franchise players" are few and far between. they don't grow in bushels. so then i guess the question is "what is a franchise player". is it a lebron franchise player(as is giannis) - a LEADER, or a tagged franchise player like *ugh* lavine/booker.

just saying i don't feel it with tatum or say ingram like i do (we all do) luka. you see it you feel it, sometimes.
one thing i have to say about that mish mosh in boston last year. i distinctly had the feeling the boston youngsters were acting entitled. to wit: they had early success the year before and i think they felt like they were da sh** and who's this sad excuse of a leader kyrie. to me a true franchise player is above that cr@p



Lebron in his 3rd season got bounced in the 2nd round just like Tatum. It took Jordan a while to get to the finals. Curry too. You're whole argument of "if he was a franchise player they would have done better last year" is just ridiculous.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#234 » by TheSheriff » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:25 am

Lalouie wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
well, which is it?

if he was a franchise player he and bos would've done better last year


Wonder what Giannis or even Kawhi were doing when they were ~20, ~21, also wonder how well George and Butler did when they were at that age on a broken team, with a delusional "leader", who did everything to lose in the playoffs and make it all bout himself while jacking up 21 shots a game, routinely picking up Giannis on defense and more.


i would not bet money on hope.
and kawhi and giannis are "late bloomers" wouldn't you say?

tatum was a 5* top5 high school player so i would have more expectations. there is always a leveling off as players reach their ceiling. late bloomers have a slower arc and players like tatum get there faster, but they all have nearly the same ceiling...a little higher and you're magic or bird,,a little higher still and you're kareem or mj. if tatum were to have continued on his arc he would be playing like god but i have to assume he's like most players and closed in on his ceiling earlier.

true "franchise players" are few and far between. they don't grow in bushels. so then i guess the question is "what is a franchise player". is it a lebron franchise player(as is giannis) - a LEADER, or a tagged franchise player like *ugh* lavine/booker.

just saying i don't feel it with tatum or say ingram like i do (we all do) luka. you see it you feel it, sometimes.
one thing i have to say about that mish mosh in boston last year. i distinctly had the feeling the boston youngsters were acting entitled. to wit: they had early success the year before and i think they felt like they were da sh** and who's this sad excuse of a leader kyrie. to me a true franchise player is above that cr@p


He was 20 years old last season. How do you expect him to be a leader? In what professional context is a 20 year old a leader? Alexander the Great did not even accomplish much at age 20.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#235 » by Tai » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:33 am

GTR11 wrote:
Saint Lazarus wrote:
GTR11 wrote:There is only 6 maybe 10 ( if we going to stretch few ) of those players in NBA. You God damn right he ain't one for sure. Let's see how he does vs Indy this year first than over react to one good stretch this year.


No, obviously he's not a superstar right now. If you ask me if Tatum is a franchise player at the moment, then obviously the answer is no.

However, this is schadenfreude for the posters in this thread who are quick to not only say that, but also assert that Tatum was already at his ceiling. Moreover, he's already surpassed the "all star ceiling" that some capped on him. It's a pretty safe bet that he's going to continue making all stars and continue to improve at the age of 21.

Well feel free to disagree with those guys for all I care. All I said is he's not as of right now and there is need for more data to determine that.
You jumping on some posters and call them short-sighted or haters but not taking into consideration the fact he playing in conference where his position in transition right now and therefore he made all star team. Is he an all star in WC? I really doubt that.
This thread asked an opinion, do people think Jason a legit franchise player right? Well clear answer is no as you pointed out yourself. Why would you get angry at other opinions for that matter. He clearly having a good stretch of games going like other players, but that doesn't mean anything yet.


So now we're doing the "wouldn't have made it in the other conference" crap? And after the "well he's only done it in the regular season" argument, no less. That Pacers team you're apparently fixated on Tatum going against is in the East and has an all-star in Sabonis. I dunno, I'm wondering why I should believe you'll give Tatum his due in the playoffs if you won't even give him props for making the All-Star game cAuSe It'S nOt ThE wEsT. It's not like he was an injury placement like Devin Booker.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#236 » by robbie84 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:33 am

Rudy Gay 2.0 getting a lot of good press



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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#237 » by lars_rosenberg » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:14 am

I wasn't convinced, but Tatum is making me change my mind.
It seems very likely at this point that he will become a superstar.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#238 » by andyo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:14 am

He's not a superstar right now but it would be silly to say his ceiling can't be a franchise player, or even a #1 option on a contender. He has a good developing triple threat game and he's a very strong 2 way player already.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#239 » by KGtabake » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:15 am

TheSheriff wrote:Alexander the Great did not even accomplish much at age 20.


:lol:
Best quote on RealGM for quite some time. So good that i'll make it my sig.
Cheers man 8-)
TheSheriff wrote:He was 20 years old last season. How do you expect him to be a leader? In what professional context is a 20 year old a leader? Alexander the Great did not even accomplish much at age 20.
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Re: Is Jayson Tatum a franchise player? 

Post#240 » by FlatearthZorro » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:43 pm

Lalouie wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
well, which is it?

if he was a franchise player he and bos would've done better last year


Wonder what Giannis or even Kawhi were doing when they were ~20, ~21, also wonder how well George and Butler did when they were at that age on a broken team, with a delusional "leader", who did everything to lose in the playoffs and make it all bout himself while jacking up 21 shots a game, routinely picking up Giannis on defense and more.


i would not bet money on hope.
and kawhi and giannis are "late bloomers" wouldn't you say?

tatum was a 5* top5 high school player so i would have more expectations. there is always a leveling off as players reach their ceiling. late bloomers have a slower arc and players like tatum get there faster, but they all have nearly the same ceiling...a little higher and you're magic or bird,,a little higher still and you're kareem or mj. if tatum were to have continued on his arc he would be playing like god but i have to assume he's like most players and closed in on his ceiling earlier.

true "franchise players" are few and far between. they don't grow in bushels. so then i guess the question is "what is a franchise player". is it a lebron franchise player(as is giannis) - a LEADER, or a tagged franchise player like *ugh* lavine/booker.

just saying i don't feel it with tatum or say ingram like i do (we all do) luka. you see it you feel it, sometimes.
one thing i have to say about that mish mosh in boston last year. i distinctly had the feeling the boston youngsters were acting entitled. to wit: they had early success the year before and i think they felt like they were da sh** and who's this sad excuse of a leader kyrie. to me a true franchise player is above that cr@p


Tatum and Kyrie are still close so I doubt that was the case. Team was just dysfunctional. Watch Kyries lowlighta vs the Bucks. He was below average vs the Pacers too. He was legit awful the entire playoffs and just wanted out of Bosto.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.

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