Sam Vecenie's Top 25 players aged 23 and under.

[KqWIN]

It's a dead point in the summer, forgive me. Checkout Sam on twitter @Sam_Vecenie.

Future projection was taken into account, it is not for next season only.

25) MIA - Bam Adebayo

24) ATL - Kevin Huerter

23) CHI - Wendell Carter, Jr.

22) BOS - Jaylen Brown

21) NOP – Brandon Ingram

20) NOP – Lonzo Ball

19) OKC - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

18) NYK - RJ Barrett

17) MEM – Ja Morant

16) CHI - Lauri Markkanen

15) DEN – Jamal Murray

14) ATL – John Collins

13) GSW - D'Angelo Russell

12) IND - Myles Turner

11) SAC - Marvin Bagley III

10) MEM - Jaren Jackson Jr.

9) BOS - Jayson Tatum

8) PHX - DeAndre Ayton

7) ATL – Trae Young

6) SAC - De'Aaron Fox

5) UTA – Donovan Mitchell

4) PHX – Devin Booker

3) PHI – Ben Simmons

2) DAL – Luka Dončić

1) NOP – Zion Williamson

Honorable Mentions were Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, and Domantas Sabonis.

[Jalexjsmithj]

It's a dead point in the summer, forgive me. Checkout Sam on twitter @Sam_Vecenie.

Future projection was taken into account, it is not for next season only.

25) MIA - Bam Adebayo

24) ATL - Kevin Huerter

23) CHI - Wendell Carter, Jr.

22) BOS - Jaylen Brown

21) NOP – Brandon Ingram

20) NOP – Lonzo Ball

19) OKC - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

18) NYK - RJ Barrett

17) MEM – Ja Morant

16) CHI - Lauri Markkanen

15) DEN – Jamal Murray

14) ATL – John Collins

13) GSW - D'Angelo Russell

12) IND - Myles Turner

11) SAC - Marvin Bagley III

10) MEM - Jaren Jackson Jr.

9) BOS - Jayson Tatum

8) PHX - DeAndre Ayton

7) ATL – Trae Young

6) SAC - De'Aaron Fox

5) UTA – Donovan Mitchell

4) PHX – Devin Booker

3) PHI – Ben Simmons

2) DAL – Luka Dončić

1) NOP – Zion Williamson

Honorable Mentions were Mitchell Robinson, Jarrett Allen, and Domantas Sabonis.

I’m a big Sam fan, listened to each episode of the podcast that covered the list, he’s a big reason why I subscribe to the Athletic.

I was pretty shocked when I saw him rank Bam 25th. I need to revisit his reasoning but that one really took me aback.

I think it’s weird that when he got heat from Bulls fans earlier this offseason for suggesting a pretty crappy return for Lauri, he came back at the haters with the take Wendell>Lauri in the long game, and he made it clear then that he thought Lauri best position and a what team should be striving for is him at the 5 (he softened a bit on that a little in the last podcast). Now he’s got them flipped on a list that includes projected future.

My big question from this exercise is where Derrick White would rank among the other young point guards if he was eligible.

Also, can we please, for the entire basketball community, get Ben Simmons out of Philly? The world could be so much more fun.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Simmons25]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

[KqWIN]

I’m a big Sam fan, listened to each episode of the podcast that covered the list, he’s a big reason why I subscribe to the Athletic.

I was pretty shocked when I saw him rank Bam 25th. I need to revisit his reasoning but that one really took me aback.

I think it’s weird that when he got heat from Bulls fans earlier this offseason for suggesting a pretty crappy return for Lauri, he came back at the haters with the take Wendell>Lauri in the long game, and he made it clear then that he thought Lauri best position and a what team should be striving for is him at the 5 (he softened a bit on that a little in the last podcast). Now he’s got them flipped on a list that includes projected future.

My big question from this exercise is where Derrick White would rank among the other young point guards if he was eligible.

Also, can we please, for the entire basketball community, get Ben Simmons out of Philly? The world could be so much more fun.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you not believe Bam should be on the list? I think he should be higher. He's already a good defender with some intriguing offensive skills in development.

[KqWIN]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

[Kabookalu]

nvm

[Jalexjsmithj]

I’m a big Sam fan, listened to each episode of the podcast that covered the list, he’s a big reason why I subscribe to the Athletic.

I was pretty shocked when I saw him rank Bam 25th. I need to revisit his reasoning but that one really took me aback.

I think it’s weird that when he got heat from Bulls fans earlier this offseason for suggesting a pretty crappy return for Lauri, he came back at the haters with the take Wendell>Lauri in the long game, and he made it clear then that he thought Lauri best position and a what team should be striving for is him at the 5 (he softened a bit on that a little in the last podcast). Now he’s got them flipped on a list that includes projected future.

My big question from this exercise is where Derrick White would rank among the other young point guards if he was eligible.

Also, can we please, for the entire basketball community, get Ben Simmons out of Philly? The world could be so much more fun.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you not believe Bam should be on the list? I think he should be higher. He's already a good defender with some intriguing offensive skills in development.

He’s ahead of Jarrett Allen, Mitchell Robinson, and Sabonis. Before I listened to Sam’s podcast if you would asked me to rank those guys’ value going forward, I would of put Bam 4th. Now Sam, talked about Bam’s developing shooting stroke a bunch, which I know little to nothing about, but yeah, frankly I would of put Bamba ahead of him just because I value ceiling a lot higher than how easy it is to find a replacement level rim runner which I associate with Bam’s game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[clyde21]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

yea no.

[KqWIN]

He’s ahead of Jarrett Allen, Mitchell Robinson, and Sabonis. Before I listened to Sam’s podcast if you would asked me to rank those guys’ value going forward, I would of put Bam 4th. Now Sam, talked about Bam’s developing shooting stroke a bunch, which I know little to nothing about, but yeah, frankly I would of put Bamba ahead of him just because I value ceiling a lot high than how easy it is to find a replacement level rim runner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Bam's current defensive value carries a lot of weight, and deservedly so. We'll see how this translates as a full time starter, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's seen in a similar light to someone like Myles Turner by the end of the year. He's got some underrated passing/shooting touch that gives him a decent amount of upside offensively.

[Simmons25]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

You can have an opinion it's just not an opinion backed up in any way by facts and data. College ball can't account for how he is going to go in the NBA... if it did we wouldn't have top 5 picks busting out and top 30 picks becoming stars.

I just personally wouldn't have anyone who has not played in the NBA in any top 50 lists yet...otherwise you may as well start including high school kids as well.

[Jalexjsmithj]

He’s ahead of Jarrett Allen, Mitchell Robinson, and Sabonis. Before I listened to Sam’s podcast if you would asked me to rank those guys’ value going forward, I would of put Bam 4th. Now Sam, talked about Bam’s developing shooting stroke a bunch, which I know little to nothing about, but yeah, frankly I would of put Bamba ahead of him just because I value ceiling a lot high than how easy it is to find a replacement level rim runner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Bam's current defensive value carries a lot of weight, and deservedly so. We'll see how this translates as a full time starter, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's seen in a similar light to someone like Myles Turner by the end of the year. He's got some underrated passing/shooting touch that gives him a decent amount of upside offensively.

More weight than Allen/Robinson’s defense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KqWIN]

I'm not going to do my own personal top 25, but I think there's a drop off after 8 prospects. My top 8 (not in order) are:

Zion
Luka

Tatum
Mitchell
Fox
JJJ
Simmons
Booker

I'm not as high on Simmons because I'm unsure of his ceiling. I don't believe in his jump shot, and I'm not sure how much better he can get without a jumpshot or adding simply adding a mediocre/bad one. The guy I'm higher on is JJJ. I think he has exceptional, unique talent on both ends.

[KqWIN]

Zion hasn't played a single game yet... and when he showed up to Summer League he waddled around like a 50 year old Shaq.

I'd like to see him at least play 20 games in the NBA before deciding whether he is #1 or Anthony Bennett.

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

You can have an opinion it's just not an opinion backed up in any way by facts and data. College ball can't account for how he is going to go in the NBA... if it did we wouldn't have top 5 picks busting out and top 30 picks becoming stars.

I just personally wouldn't have anyone who has not played in the NBA in any top 50 lists yet...otherwise you may as well start including high school kids as well.

Would you trade Sabonis for Zion Williamson? Who is a better prospect? That's the answer's they're going for. His opinion is backed up by years of evaluation and studying the game. If you don't think a rookie will be in the top 25, then you are neglecting reality. This is not who has "earned" a spot or who is the most proven. It's about who you think is the better prospect.

[Hroz]

Booker real high

I'd drop him down just below Russell

[KqWIN]

He’s ahead of Jarrett Allen, Mitchell Robinson, and Sabonis. Before I listened to Sam’s podcast if you would asked me to rank those guys’ value going forward, I would of put Bam 4th. Now Sam, talked about Bam’s developing shooting stroke a bunch, which I know little to nothing about, but yeah, frankly I would of put Bamba ahead of him just because I value ceiling a lot high than how easy it is to find a replacement level rim runner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Bam's current defensive value carries a lot of weight, and deservedly so. We'll see how this translates as a full time starter, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's seen in a similar light to someone like Myles Turner by the end of the year. He's got some underrated passing/shooting touch that gives him a decent amount of upside offensively.

More weight than Allen/Robinson’s defense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He's a better than both imo. Allen for sure, I don't think it's particularly close right now. Robinson is unique because of his gaudy numbers, but that doesn't necessarily mean better defense.

[Clyde Frazier]

I wouldn't put upcoming rookies on a list like this. Not an even playing field. Otherwise looks pretty good.

[Simmons25]

This was brought up in the process, and I agree with them that this is a dumb comment. Just because a player has not played a game in the NBA does not mean you cannot have an opinion on them. What are you going to do, leave Zion and every other rookie completely out of the exercise like they don't exist?

You can have an opinion it's just not an opinion backed up in any way by facts and data. College ball can't account for how he is going to go in the NBA... if it did we wouldn't have top 5 picks busting out and top 30 picks becoming stars.

I just personally wouldn't have anyone who has not played in the NBA in any top 50 lists yet...otherwise you may as well start including high school kids as well.

Would you trade Sabonis for Zion Williamson? Who is a better prospect? That's the answer's they're going for. His opinion is backed up by years of evaluation and studying the game. If you don't think a rookie will be in the top 25, then you are neglecting reality. This is not who has "earned" a spot or who is the most proven. It's about who you think is the better prospect.

Would I trade Sabonis for a 2024 top 2 pick? Yeah. Doesn't mean they will be better though.... you are paying for the hope they might be better.

At this stage Zion's value has probably gone down off the back of him turning up to Summer League like Fat Albert and hurting himself a few mins in as a result.

[BoogieTime]

Well, with Fox at 6 and Bagley at 11 it’s more credible (what was that garbage Fox at 14, Bagley at 39 the other day).

I’d still quibble with the list. What has Booker shown in terms of winning? Simmons is a flawed player. Tatum ISO SF, better defending/efficient Rudy Gay

[KqWIN]

You can have an opinion it's just not an opinion backed up in any way by facts and data. College ball can't account for how he is going to go in the NBA... if it did we wouldn't have top 5 picks busting out and top 30 picks becoming stars.

I just personally wouldn't have anyone who has not played in the NBA in any top 50 lists yet...otherwise you may as well start including high school kids as well.

Would you trade Sabonis for Zion Williamson? Who is a better prospect? That's the answer's they're going for. His opinion is backed up by years of evaluation and studying the game. If you don't think a rookie will be in the top 25, then you are neglecting reality. This is not who has "earned" a spot or who is the most proven. It's about who you think is the better prospect.

Would I trade Sabonis for a 2024 top 2 pick? Yeah. Doesn't mean they will be better though.... you are paying for the hope they might be better.

At this stage Zion's value has probably gone down off the back of him turning up to Summer League like Fat Albert and hurting himself a few mins in as a result.

If you would trade any player on this list for a future pick, you are making a bet that the pick will turn out to be better. That is the same speculation they are using here. Putting Zion number one does not mean they are guaranteeing that he will be the best player in the league. Putting Zion at number one means that they think he will be better than everyone else.

PS: It's quite hilarious that you are so offended by Sam speculating on Zion using his entire body of work when you are incredibly comfortable using one game and memes to argue why he doesn't deserve to be here. So what is it, can you use pre draft evaluation, or can you not? If you can, what is your problem. If you can't, why do you care what happened at the summer league? Pick one. You can't contradict yourself this badly.

[Buzzard]

From a Hawks perspective, with three in the top 25, two things I am curious about.

1-Where Trae, Collins, and Huerter rank next season.
2-If Hunter, Reddish, and/or Bruno make the list next season.

A lot of future promise and/or disappointment to be played out for the Hawks in the coming seasons.