If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 30?

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If Tom Brady get's a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan?

Yes ranked above Jordan
129
41%
No still below Jordan
184
59%
 
Total votes: 313

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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#221 » by DirtyDez » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:49 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
50CalClips wrote:Well...

Image


Brady/Jordan, for 2nd place....


There are 4 chances each year for Federer to win a title. Just one chance each year for Brady and Jordan. Divide 20 by 4 and you get 5.

6 > 5

24 titles for Federer would actually be equal to 6 for Brady and Jordan.


Federer likely doesn’t have a career grand slam had Nadal not been injured in the 09’ French Open. Granted tennis rankings are funky because the court has so much impact. In 40 h2h matches Fed is 16-24 but is 14-10 on hard or grass surfaces while 2-14 on clay. Nadal is also one slam behind after winning the US Open and younger. It’s a near lock Rafa passes him.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#222 » by GinWeary » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:52 pm

As to the argument of longevity, I think we also need to take into account that the average playing time of an NFL game is about 11 - 15 minutes of action, per a 2013 report. Split that between Offense, Defense, and Special teams and 8 minutes of actual playing time for the QB is generous. Over 16 games, that is ~128 minutes a season. I realize football is a much more physical sport, but not always so for the QB - Brady was sacked only 15 times at the age of 39.

MJ played over 3000 minutes at the age of 39 and did so for a total 12 times throughout his career. MJ led the league in total regular-season minutes played three times; this is an extreme amount of wear and tear on the lower body.

Both players are in a class above their peers. However, I feel MJ had a higher impact on the Bulls championships than Brady's has had in the Patriots Super Bowls.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#223 » by GinWeary » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:53 pm

IgorK wrote:
Edrees wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Brady's 6 is already greater than Jordan's 6. It's more difficult to win in football for many reasons - 1-and-done playoff format, less control (Brady only plays offense, so he has no say on the defensive end, unlike basketball players), and the fact that you have 50+ teammates you need to rely on (whereas in basketball you're playing with a 12-man roster which shrinks to about 8 during playoffs).


I mean, from an individual perspective, that actually make Brady sounds less impressive. It highlights that he needed the organization to be as great as it was to support him and allow for the accomplishment to happen. Whereas Jordan's feels more like it was all him. Brady was on the sideline effectively as a cheerleader in some of those most key moments of the Patiots 6 rings, where Jordan always played some kind of active role in every key moment.

I think from a *team* perspective the Patriots winning 6 is far more impressive than the Bulls winning 6, but from any 1 player perspective, Jordan's performance in those 6 rings is more Impressive than Brady's performance in his 6.

I think that by saying team success being harder to achieve in the NFL is in itself is admission that one player can't really have that much impact on the game which suggests Brady didn't have as much impact as Jordan. It's simply the nature of their sports.

This is further supported by the fact that Brady wasn't even the MVP of the Superbowl in 2 of his Finals. And Brady was only the league MVP 3 times vs Jordan's 6s. BOTH of thse strongly support that Brady had to rely on his team more than Jordan did. Tom brady stats in his most recent superbowl win: 21-35, 262 YDS, 1 INT For a QB those are worse than Lebron game 6 vs mavs in 2011 level stats, except his defense bailed him out for the win.

If people are going to hold it against Kobe in the Kobe vs Lebron debate that Kobe wasn't the best player in the finals in 3 of his finals, why doesn't Brady get the same treatment when he wasn't the MVP of 2 of his finals? Same goes for Steph Curry. When you compare Lebron and steph curry, they both have 3 rings, but then you realize Lebron was Finals MVP 3 times. You have to think the same way when comparing Brady in superbowls and Jordan in Finals.

Drygon wrote:
Michael Jordan was pretty bad against SuperSonics in NBA Finals 1996 and got bailed out by Dennis Rodman in that series.

Nobody cares or even remembers. Same will happened with Brady even if he was poor in some of those SuperBowls wins.



Jordan still had 27.3, 5.3, 4.2, 1.7, 0.2. He was fairly inefficient but everything else measures up, including his D. Those are still great stats for an NBA player and not nearly as bad as the stats brady has put up in some superbowls.



Actually.. anyone who knows at least a little bit about football knows that without a great quarterback, you don't win Superbowls.


'85 Bears?
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#224 » by LKN » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:00 pm

GinWeary wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Edrees wrote:
I mean, from an individual perspective, that actually make Brady sounds less impressive. It highlights that he needed the organization to be as great as it was to support him and allow for the accomplishment to happen. Whereas Jordan's feels more like it was all him. Brady was on the sideline effectively as a cheerleader in some of those most key moments of the Patiots 6 rings, where Jordan always played some kind of active role in every key moment.

I think from a *team* perspective the Patriots winning 6 is far more impressive than the Bulls winning 6, but from any 1 player perspective, Jordan's performance in those 6 rings is more Impressive than Brady's performance in his 6.

I think that by saying team success being harder to achieve in the NFL is in itself is admission that one player can't really have that much impact on the game which suggests Brady didn't have as much impact as Jordan. It's simply the nature of their sports.

This is further supported by the fact that Brady wasn't even the MVP of the Superbowl in 2 of his Finals. And Brady was only the league MVP 3 times vs Jordan's 6s. BOTH of thse strongly support that Brady had to rely on his team more than Jordan did. Tom brady stats in his most recent superbowl win: 21-35, 262 YDS, 1 INT For a QB those are worse than Lebron game 6 vs mavs in 2011 level stats, except his defense bailed him out for the win.

If people are going to hold it against Kobe in the Kobe vs Lebron debate that Kobe wasn't the best player in the finals in 3 of his finals, why doesn't Brady get the same treatment when he wasn't the MVP of 2 of his finals? Same goes for Steph Curry. When you compare Lebron and steph curry, they both have 3 rings, but then you realize Lebron was Finals MVP 3 times. You have to think the same way when comparing Brady in superbowls and Jordan in Finals.



Jordan still had 27.3, 5.3, 4.2, 1.7, 0.2. He was fairly inefficient but everything else measures up, including his D. Those are still great stats for an NBA player and not nearly as bad as the stats brady has put up in some superbowls.



Actually.. anyone who knows at least a little bit about football knows that without a great quarterback, you don't win Superbowls.


'85 Bears?


It actually used to be somewhat common prior to all the rule changes.

Mark Rypien, McMahon, Doug Williams, Phil Simms. Those guys were good, but not ATG. Heck, it's debateable whether Aikman was really an ATG

Terry Bradshaw is another one.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#225 » by IgorK » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:07 pm

GinWeary wrote:
IgorK wrote:
Edrees wrote:
I mean, from an individual perspective, that actually make Brady sounds less impressive. It highlights that he needed the organization to be as great as it was to support him and allow for the accomplishment to happen. Whereas Jordan's feels more like it was all him. Brady was on the sideline effectively as a cheerleader in some of those most key moments of the Patiots 6 rings, where Jordan always played some kind of active role in every key moment.

I think from a *team* perspective the Patriots winning 6 is far more impressive than the Bulls winning 6, but from any 1 player perspective, Jordan's performance in those 6 rings is more Impressive than Brady's performance in his 6.

I think that by saying team success being harder to achieve in the NFL is in itself is admission that one player can't really have that much impact on the game which suggests Brady didn't have as much impact as Jordan. It's simply the nature of their sports.

This is further supported by the fact that Brady wasn't even the MVP of the Superbowl in 2 of his Finals. And Brady was only the league MVP 3 times vs Jordan's 6s. BOTH of thse strongly support that Brady had to rely on his team more than Jordan did. Tom brady stats in his most recent superbowl win: 21-35, 262 YDS, 1 INT For a QB those are worse than Lebron game 6 vs mavs in 2011 level stats, except his defense bailed him out for the win.

If people are going to hold it against Kobe in the Kobe vs Lebron debate that Kobe wasn't the best player in the finals in 3 of his finals, why doesn't Brady get the same treatment when he wasn't the MVP of 2 of his finals? Same goes for Steph Curry. When you compare Lebron and steph curry, they both have 3 rings, but then you realize Lebron was Finals MVP 3 times. You have to think the same way when comparing Brady in superbowls and Jordan in Finals.



Jordan still had 27.3, 5.3, 4.2, 1.7, 0.2. He was fairly inefficient but everything else measures up, including his D. Those are still great stats for an NBA player and not nearly as bad as the stats brady has put up in some superbowls.



Actually.. anyone who knows at least a little bit about football knows that without a great quarterback, you don't win Superbowls.


'85 Bears?


Outliers exist in just about every sport. See: '04 Pistons.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#226 » by BVB24 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:15 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:6 superbowls is far more impressive than 6 NBA championships.


Not when you consider the cheating scandals and the fact that the “tuck rule” was gifted championship.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#227 » by Prokorov » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:14 am

Froob wrote:
Prokorov wrote:6* superbowls

patriots championships are all tainted. they have been caught time and time again for cheating.

How were the last two tainted? :lol:


brady/bellichecks entire careers are tainted. they are cheaters and horrible humans in general
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#228 » by Ducklett » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:57 am

Prokorov wrote:
Froob wrote:
Prokorov wrote:6* superbowls

patriots championships are all tainted. they have been caught time and time again for cheating.

How were the last two tainted? :lol:


brady/bellichecks entire careers are tainted. they are cheaters and horrible humans in general


Not that I disagree with you, but I do find it humorous that a guy named after a pretty despicable Russian Oligarch is judging people's morality.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#229 » by FlatearthZorro » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:27 am

Ducklett wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Froob wrote:How were the last two tainted? :lol:


brady/bellichecks entire careers are tainted. they are cheaters and horrible humans in general


Not that I disagree with you, but I do find it humorous that a guy named after a pretty despicable Russian Oligarch is judging people's morality.


Yea Prokorov was a mob guy more than likely and has hurt people. Brady and Bill are awful human beings, cause they supposedly "cheated" in a game of american football(and only Spygate is probably real, deflategate was a HUGE FIASCO which was forced by other team owners, imo). These guys are a bunch of low lives, aren't they?

/sarcasm
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PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#230 » by FlatearthZorro » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:30 am

SportsReelLife wrote:Jordan, because him winning made him a global icon. more so than the Chicago Bulls/

brady is only a national icon. Patriots are more of the global brand, maybe, because they have so won so often in recent memory



American football is getting bigger, I can tell you that Bulgarians have started watching it. Obviously in England it's somewhat popular. Tommy is known around the globe, probably not as much as LBJ, cause the NBA gave James and is still giving James a HUGE push.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#231 » by dantheman74 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:18 am

IgorK wrote:
levon wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:6 superbowls is far more impressive than 6 NBA championships.

as someone who doesn't watch football, why do you say that? my understanding is that individual NBA players influence the outcome in basketball more than individuals in football?


Brady's 6 is already greater than Jordan's 6. It's more difficult to win in football for many reasons - 1-and-done playoff format, less control (Brady only plays offense, so he has no say on the defensive end, unlike basketball players), and the fact that you have 50+ teammates you need to rely on (whereas in basketball you're playing with a 12-man roster which shrinks to about 8 during playoffs).



So if he's only responsible for half the result..how is he better than MJ. He's not.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#232 » by Prokorov » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:42 pm

Ducklett wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
Froob wrote:How were the last two tainted? :lol:


brady/bellichecks entire careers are tainted. they are cheaters and horrible humans in general


Not that I disagree with you, but I do find it humorous that a guy named after a pretty despicable Russian Oligarch is judging people's morality.


the prokorov handle is a satire
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#233 » by GordanFreeman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:17 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Put belicheck above all. He will look down at us mere mortals in his greatest/most triumphant moement like this:

Image

Sure you could say he's just a coach. But is he not simply playing the game better than the rest?


He's the defacto GM as well since he has final say on roster moves.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#234 » by GordanFreeman » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:36 pm

IgorK wrote:
GinWeary wrote:
IgorK wrote:

Actually.. anyone who knows at least a little bit about football knows that without a great quarterback, you don't win Superbowls.


'85 Bears?


Outliers exist in just about every sport. See: '04 Pistons.


Add Dilfer, Johnson, Foles, Flacco to that list
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#235 » by SportsReelLife » Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:36 pm

FlatearthZorro wrote:
SportsReelLife wrote:Jordan, because him winning made him a global icon. more so than the Chicago Bulls/

brady is only a national icon. Patriots are more of the global brand, maybe, because they have so won so often in recent memory



American football is getting bigger, I can tell you that Bulgarians have started watching it. Obviously in England it's somewhat popular. Tommy is known around the globe, probably not as much as LBJ, cause the NBA gave James and is still giving James a HUGE push.


its not to take away from Brady who is a GOAT in his own right. but Jordan is a global icon, branding, even before social media.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#236 » by FlatearthZorro » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:13 pm

SportsReelLife wrote:
FlatearthZorro wrote:
SportsReelLife wrote:Jordan, because him winning made him a global icon. more so than the Chicago Bulls/

brady is only a national icon. Patriots are more of the global brand, maybe, because they have so won so often in recent memory



American football is getting bigger, I can tell you that Bulgarians have started watching it. Obviously in England it's somewhat popular. Tommy is known around the globe, probably not as much as LBJ, cause the NBA gave James and is still giving James a HUGE push.


its not to take away from Brady who is a GOAT in his own right. but Jordan is a global icon, branding, even before social media.


That's true. Tommy will never be as popular as Jordan. Basketball is way more famous worldwide and Jordan was so athletic and flashy, also a winner.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#237 » by freethedevil » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:14 pm

GinWeary wrote:As to the argument of longevity, I think we also need to take into account that the average playing time of an NFL game is about 11 - 15 minutes of action, per a 2013 report. Split that between Offense, Defense, and Special teams and 8 minutes of actual playing time for the QB is generous. Over 16 games, that is ~128 minutes a season. I realize football is a much more physical sport, but not always so for the QB - Brady was sacked only 15 times at the age of 39.

MJ played over 3000 minutes at the age of 39 and did so for a total 12 times throughout his career. MJ led the league in total regular-season minutes played three times; this is an extreme amount of wear and tear on the lower body..

Which is nice and all untill we compare them relative to their peers...
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#238 » by The Rodzilla » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:16 pm

he has lost superbowls, apparently you are not allowed to do that because losing earlier is better
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#239 » by Chi Dynasty12 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:24 pm

I'm going with MJ. In basketball, a star player has much more of an impact on the game than even a quarterback has in football because you're 20% of the team on the court at one time, and you're playing both offense AND defense.

Brady is clearly a legendary QB, but what Belichick has accomplished with that dynasty is more impressive. In a lot of the Pats' wins, Brady is just playing game manager. And in their Super Bowl losses, his impact wasn't there.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#240 » by Johnny Firpo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:52 pm

Another important factor, in my opinion it is easier to win an NFL MVP than it is to win an NBA MVP, and MJ has Brady doubled up there. In the NFL it's pretty much almost always a QB who wins, so in his best days Brady really only had to compete with a handful of players for this award, and the truth is that he wasn't really considered to be the best in the league, never mind ever. That came with the 5th ring, probably, and the truth is that he won some Super Bowls recently where he wasn't even close to being the best player on his team. I think Brady is massively overrated, and I don't think MJ is. A little bit, probably, but not nearly as much as Brady. Also, Gretzky > both.

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