If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 30?

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If Tom Brady get's a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan?

Yes ranked above Jordan
129
41%
No still below Jordan
184
59%
 
Total votes: 313

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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#241 » by Danny1616 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:02 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:Another important factor, in my opinion it is easier to win an NFL MVP than it is to win an NBA MVP, and MJ has Brady doubled up there. In the NFL it's pretty much almost always a QB who wins, so in his best days Brady really only had to compete with a handful of players for this award, and the truth is that he wasn't really considered to be the best in the league, never mind ever. That came with the 5th ring, probably, and the truth is that he won some Super Bowls recently where he wasn't even close to being the best player on his team. I think Brady is massively overrated, and I don't think MJ is. A little bit, probably, but not nearly as much as Brady. Also, Gretzky > both.


What?

Brady was already in the conversation for the GOAT in 2010. He had already 3 Super Bowls, two league MVPs and broke every single season statistical record for a QB in 2007. In 2010 he became the first unanimous MVP in NFL history with the greatest touchdown-interception ratio in a regular season.

In 2012 he also (with Brees) broke the single season yardage record and helped Gronkowski break every single season tight-end record in NFL History, leading the Patriots to another Super Bowl appearance.

By 2014 when Brady was his 4th Super Bowl and had his 6th Super Bowl appearance he was crowned as the GOAT by almost everyone. The only people that doubted him where people saying that Montana was 4-0 in the Super Bowl while Brady was 4-2, despite Brady blowing Montana out of the water statistically.

You have to realize Brady is basically #3 all time statistically the regular season and #1 all time in the post-season. He has the statistics and the accolades, in addition to post-season success.

You also have to realize how hard it is to get to a Super Bowl, let alone win one.

There is a reason why Rodgers has only been to 1, Brees has only been to 1, Favre has only been to 2, Manning has only been to 3 etc.

Brady has been to 9 Super Bowls...that's like the equivalent of NBA player reaching 12-13 finals.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#242 » by eagereyez » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:24 am

Danny1616 wrote:
eagereyez wrote:
Danny1616 wrote:
Not only that but Brady broke NFL records throwing for over 400 yards and 4 touchdowns against the legion of boom, one of the greatest defenses in NFL history that had decimated Manning and the Bronco's in the Super Bowl the year prior.

Brady's performance against the Seahawks is one of the greatest games in QB history.

The LOB was decimated by injuries in that SB. Sherman was playing with one arm. ET3 dislocated his shoulder in the NFC championship game. Lane broke his arm at the end of the 1st quarter. Chancellor was the most healthy and he was playing through a bone bruise.

Nothing to take away from NE - they can only beat the team that is put in front of them. But I would not compare that version of the LOB to the one that played against Denver.


Excuses.

Brady was dealing with a bad ankle all season, Gronk was dealing with knee issues early on and was coming back from an ACL tear, only playing 10 games during the season.

Chandler Jones and Hightower also had injury issues.

Seahawks were still the highest rated defense in the league during that season.

It's the NFL, everyone is dealing with something. If they are on the field they are healthy.

Pats beat the Falcons without Gronk and Brady put up 505 yards against the Eagles without Edelman.

You are getting defensive for no reason. But you are a NE fan, so that is your default mode.

I said that the LOB that played against NE was not the same LOB that played against Denver. That is objectively true - the LOB was significantly healthier in the SB against Denver.

I even said that this takes nothing away from NE - they can only beat the team that is put in front of them. And yes, everyone deals with injury. That does not take away from the point that Denver went up against a healthier and better defense than NE. Arguing against that is straight up ignorance.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#243 » by KembaWalker » Sat Sep 14, 2019 11:43 am

Danny1616 wrote:
Johnny Firpo wrote:Another important factor, in my opinion it is easier to win an NFL MVP than it is to win an NBA MVP, and MJ has Brady doubled up there. In the NFL it's pretty much almost always a QB who wins, so in his best days Brady really only had to compete with a handful of players for this award, and the truth is that he wasn't really considered to be the best in the league, never mind ever. That came with the 5th ring, probably, and the truth is that he won some Super Bowls recently where he wasn't even close to being the best player on his team. I think Brady is massively overrated, and I don't think MJ is. A little bit, probably, but not nearly as much as Brady. Also, Gretzky > both.


What?

Brady was already in the conversation for the GOAT in 2010. He had already 3 Super Bowls, two league MVPs and broke every single season statistical record for a QB in 2007. In 2010 he became the first unanimous MVP in NFL history with the greatest touchdown-interception ratio in a regular season.

In 2012 he also (with Brees) broke the single season yardage record and helped Gronkowski break every single season tight-end record in NFL History, leading the Patriots to another Super Bowl appearance.

By 2014 when Brady was his 4th Super Bowl and had his 6th Super Bowl appearance he was crowned as the GOAT by almost everyone. The only people that doubted him where people saying that Montana was 4-0 in the Super Bowl while Brady was 4-2, despite Brady blowing Montana out of the water statistically.

You have to realize Brady is basically #3 all time statistically the regular season and #1 all time in the post-season. He has the statistics and the accolades, in addition to post-season success.

You also have to realize how hard it is to get to a Super Bowl, let alone win one.

There is a reason why Rodgers has only been to 1, Brees has only been to 1, Favre has only been to 2, Manning has only been to 3 etc.

Brady has been to 9 Super Bowls...that's like the equivalent of NBA player reaching 12-13 finals.


Pretty nuts that Brady had a decent GOAT argument before Cam Newton and Andrew Luck were even in the league. And one of them is officially retired and the other could tomorrow and nobody would be surprised. And Toms still playing top shelf football with no end in sight
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#244 » by chrisab123 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:11 pm

9 Superbowls in a Salary Cap era in the NFL. 6 of those won. 8 straight AFC title games. What Brady is doing right now at 42 is unprecedented and frankly insane. I get that its hard to compare sports but given the longevity and the domination of the last 20 or so years in a league that prides itself on parity then you probably have to give Brady the edge. But if you wanted to say Robert Horry thats cool too.

Also don't give me the deflated football nonsense. Brady took a slightly more inflated football and hammered the Colts in the 2nd half. Which was the beginning of the end for Andrew Lucks career.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#245 » by nbhadja » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:08 pm

Brady. He is GOAT right now. If he wins another he is just adding to his legacy. His longevity alone keeps increasing his case. I can see him remaining elite for another 3 seasons and then he retires at age 45. The scary part is that he could easily win another ring or 2 and retire with 7 or 8 rings. The only thing missing for his legacy is 19-0. It is hard to achieve, but this year's Patriot's squad is capable of doing it. Brady could even win regular season MVP this season thanks to the monster stats he will put up because of the WR core.

People can try to dismiss Brady because he has the GOAT as his coach, but Jordan had one of the GOATs as his coach. You can try to dismiss Brady because the patriots had 11 wins without him in 2008 with Cassel as QB, but the bulls had 55 wins without Jordan when he retired and Pippen was leading the bulls. Also Bill had no success as the Brown's HC and all of his success with the Pat's has been with Tom as his QB.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#246 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:28 pm

Cant be GOAT if he plays a sport which only one continent plays.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#247 » by Alienware » Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:31 pm

I think it's Tom Brady already, even withouth the 7th.
NFL has way more parity than the NBA, and while football it's more team-oriented than the NBA because there are actually two different teams on the field at different times, the QB has way more impact than any other player on the roster, especially in the last decade, i.e. Brady has done more for the Patriots wins than Jordan has for the Bulls wins.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#248 » by kaulkhara15 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:50 pm

The reason Brady will never, ever surpass MJ is because people can only bring up team accomplishments as his argument. And he plays in the ultimate team sport.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#249 » by OdomFan » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:01 pm

A lot factors in for a football quarterback to be great at what they do over the stretch of a career. Obviously the QB has to be great, but also the line has to be good at protecting him, and the guy's he constantly throws the ball to has to be able to catch and hold on to that ball in order for a first and touchdown to be accomplished.

So I don't see how that can really put all the shine on Tom Brady being some Goat who gets all the credit for those 6 Super Bowl rings. He wasn't even MVP of all the Championships his team won unlike MJ. Basketball is just different. In basketball a star can take over games and really impact the outcome which is what MJ did for those 90s Bulls throughout that decade. So no. One more super Bowl would not put Brady ahead imo.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#250 » by DirtyDez » Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:42 pm

OdomFan wrote:A lot factors in for a football quarterback to be great at what they do over the stretch of a career. Obviously the QB has to be great, but also the line has to be good at protecting him, and the guy's he constantly throws the ball to has to be able to catch and hold on to that ball in order for a first and touchdown to be accomplished.

So I don't see how that can really put all the shine on Tom Brady being some Goat who gets all the credit for those 6 Super Bowl rings. He wasn't even MVP of all the Championships his team won unlike MJ. Basketball is just different. In basketball a star can take over games and really impact the outcome which is what MJ did for those 90s Bulls throughout that decade. So no. One more super Bowl would not put Brady ahead imo.


Finals/SB MVP is a media voted award. Idk why they really matter... it’s like the media voting Andre Iguodala winning FMVP hurts Curry’s legacy according to some ppl. It’s silly to me that they let other people’s votes impact their own opinion on a player.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#251 » by LKN » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:17 pm

I still think trying to compare any football to a basketball player just doesn't work. Guys like MJ, Lebron, Kareem, etc just have way more impact than any individual football player ever could. Football players are also far more specialized than basketball players. Is Tom Brady really better relative to his QB peers than say the best olineman, WR or CB was? Sure, QBs have more impact... but one could certainly make a case for Jerry Rice being the GOAT too given his dominance relative to his peers.

In addition coaches have significantly more impact in football than basketball (and most other sports)...particularly in game impact.

I don't say this to dis-credit Brady in any way... I just think the comparison doesn't really work.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#252 » by Fable » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:26 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:Cant be GOAT if he plays a sport which only one continent plays.

Only one country plays handegg, not even one continent. Football is the most popular sport in Mexico and hockey is the national sport in Canuckistan.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#253 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:27 pm

Fable wrote:
TheFinishSniper wrote:Cant be GOAT if he plays a sport which only one continent plays.

Only one country plays handegg, not even one continent. Football is the most popular sport in Mexico and hockey is the national sport in Canuckistan.

So he isnt even a GOAT of continent, but GOAT of 'murica sport. Gotcha
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#254 » by Fable » Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:40 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:So he isnt even a GOAT of continent, but GOAT of 'murica sport. Gotcha

Yeah, it's like a GOAT of sumo or ping-pong.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#256 » by IgorK » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:24 pm

dantheman74 wrote:
IgorK wrote:
levon wrote:as someone who doesn't watch football, why do you say that? my understanding is that individual NBA players influence the outcome in basketball more than individuals in football?


Brady's 6 is already greater than Jordan's 6. It's more difficult to win in football for many reasons - 1-and-done playoff format, less control (Brady only plays offense, so he has no say on the defensive end, unlike basketball players), and the fact that you have 50+ teammates you need to rely on (whereas in basketball you're playing with a 12-man roster which shrinks to about 8 during playoffs).



So if he's only responsible for half the result..how is he better than MJ. He's not.


It's difficult to explain just how important quarterbacks are in the NFL. It's not 'responsible for half the result'.. it's 'you don't get anywhere without him'.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#257 » by IgorK » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:27 pm

GordanFreeman wrote:
IgorK wrote:
GinWeary wrote:
'85 Bears?


Outliers exist in just about every sport. See: '04 Pistons.


Add Dilfer, Johnson, Foles, Flacco to that list


I'd say Flacco is actually a pretty good quarterback, he was not an outlier imo. Foles seems to relish the "savior off the bench" role :lol:
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#258 » by Sark » Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:46 pm

Jordan detractors when comparing Jordan to Lebron: team success doesn't matter.


Jordan detractors when comparing Jordan to Brady: team success matters.
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#259 » by freethedevil » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:08 pm

Sark wrote:Jordan detractors when comparing Jordan to Lebron: team success doesn't matter.


Jordan detractors when comparing Jordan to Brady: team success matters.

Read the thread title.

It's not "greatest", it's "most successful/winning". Didn't you quote me to tell me that earlier?
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Re: If Tom Brady gets a 7th ring this year do you put him above Jordan as the most successful/winning player of the last 

Post#260 » by freethedevil » Sat Sep 14, 2019 9:09 pm

Middle Child wrote:Mike won titles in 6 of his 11 full seasons.

Nobody signs players in the hope they'll play less. This doesn't matter. :roll:

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