People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree...

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People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#1 » by mdonnelly1989 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:37 pm

I still feel like the Clippers should be a heavy favorite versus the field to win it all....


When you have


A. Kawhi Leonard who most people think is the best player in the league now, and previous finals MVP. The best defensive SF in the league hands down.

B. Paul George who win slated at the SG position can easily give you 25 PPG per night and potentially the best
defensive SG in the league.

C. Patrick Beverly not a great player but considering he's the best defensive PG in the league and you ADD that to 2 of the best defensive players.

You potentially have the best defensive team we have seen in a long time.

D. You have Lou Williams coming off the bench, the leagues best 6th

E. Montrezl Harrell who isn't elite but a very underrated part of this team who gave them 17 PPG on 61% FG.

Imo I don't think there is a team who matches up good enough BOTH on the offensive and defensive side.

* 76ers still haven't proven their offense is good enough to compete legitimately with a defense this good.

* For the Lakers Lebron is in his 18th season, and low post bigs like AD are severely limited on impact in today's league.

* Jazz maybe, but they need Conley and can he stay healthy and jive with Mitchell in the back court.

* Nuggets don't have near the balance from the defensive end.

* Rockets I don't trust Westbrook and Harden to close especially when their games overlap far too much.

* Bucks rely too much on Giannis who Kawhi basically shut down last year.

* Portland don't even get me started...

*Warriors, probably the least likely of any team considering their offense is all going to come where Clippers are best defensively.

Wide Open in regards to how heavily the Warriors were going into last season, sure yes. But Clippers should be the overwhelming Favorites considering their roster is the most balanced by a good margin assuming health is good.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#2 » by Triples333 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:41 pm

You are heavily overrating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#3 » by mdonnelly1989 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:42 pm

I will say a few other things.

#1.) If Giannis develops more than a respectable jump shot, but even then, I still like the Clippers because Kawhi and PG can take him on the perimeter.

#2.) If Anthony Davis and Lebron James absolutely dominate they can give Clippers a run, but Kawhi has been known to be a Lebron stopper, and AD will need to go Shaq mode for their to be a legit chance if he's limited.

#3.) 76ers if Ben Simmons can go to the next level with a jump shot and Embiid can improve they IMO have the best shot. But that remains to be seen.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#4 » by mdonnelly1989 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:44 pm

Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#5 » by Bornstellar » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:45 pm

It's not 2015-2016 any more, and Kawhi is nowhere near as good on D now as he was back then. But I agree, Clippers are definitely the favorite.

My Spurs will nab the 8th seed and play them in the 1st round and shock the world by getting our revenge on Nephew. Just wait. 8-)
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#6 » by norcocredo » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:49 pm

Massive failure if Clippers don’t win it all. Huge knock on Kawhi’s reputation. Amirite.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#7 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:50 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.


The raptors were able to defend Giannis, Leonard was simply a part of the defense and yes he did a darn good job in his role on him. Trying to claim that Leonard neutralized Giannis is simply false. The raptors last year were far better defensively than the clippers could possible be projected to be.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#8 » by GiannisAnte34 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:50 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.


Kawhi neutralized Giannis? What about Ibaka, Siakam, and Gasol? Kawhi has no where near the athletic bigs in LAC as he did in TOR
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#9 » by Triples333 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:53 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.

It was a rare bright spot defensively for him this past season (including the playoffs) and that was a team effort from an actual generational D (in the playoffs). He has regressed there tremendously. Guys like Curry and Klay/DLo (concerning your GS comment) will run circles around him (and were in the Finals). Beverly is a pest, but he's not a high impact shutdown defender. And the paint protection absolutely matters. I don't see them as a top 3 D, let alone a generational D. Time will tell.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#10 » by mademan » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:57 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.


As a group, the Raps had the best and most versatile collection of defensive bigs last year, as well as 2 guards with some of the best defensive BBIQ with Lowry and Green. Kawhi was merely a great defender as part of a terrific defensive team.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#11 » by Dominater » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:59 pm

We're yet to even see if the Clippers are even the best team in their own building, let alone entire league
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#12 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Mon Sep 9, 2019 11:59 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.
Also Harkless can guard 4 positions. People keep knocking Kawhi's defense because no question the last couple regular seasons he has took the foot off the pedal. That being said, we saw him neutralize Giannis and in the playoffs he played better defense. Nobody here is worried about regular season D. When the games become grindy in the playoffs I'm taking Beverley, PG, Kawhi, Harkless over anyone else to get stops as a unit. If they add Iggy it's even more lights out in that regard. Also people keep emphasizing paint d where Zubac was the #4 most effective rim defender in the NBA. He's going to continue getting better.

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#13 » by Mikistan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:01 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.

Sorry this had more to do with Marc Gasol and ibaka and great raptors schemes throwing Double teams off various actions.

Kawhi did his part but he didn't single handedly shackle giannis
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#14 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:02 am

Dominater wrote:We're yet to even see if the Clippers are even the best team in their own building, let alone entire league
He's talking about on paper. Their bench alone is likely to be Shamet+Lou+McGruder+Harkless+Harrell. Teams are going to get run off the MF floor many nights. They aren't Warriors dynasty dominant on paper, but I do agree with the OP premise that if anything the team is being underrated to be every so slightly favored.

PG will start the season IMO and Kawhi isn't on rest protocol exactly. Assuming health I won't be surprised at all if they win 65 games, then get even better in the playoffs.

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#15 » by Dominater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Dominater wrote:We're yet to even see if the Clippers are even the best team in their own building, let alone entire league
He's talking about on paper. Their bench alone is likely to be Shamet+Lou+McGruder+Harkless+Harrell. Teams are going to get run off the MF floor many nights. They aren't Warriors dynasty dominant on paper, but I do agree with the OP premise that if anything the team is being underrated to be every so slightly favored.

PG will start the season IMO and Kawhi isn't on rest protocol exactly. Assuming health I won't be surprised at all if they win 65 games, then get even better in the playoffs.

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I agree that they have as good of a shot as any, but there are several teams that have a seat at the table this year
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#16 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:04 am

Triples333 wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.

It was a rare bright spot defensively for him this past season (including the playoffs) and that was a team effort from an actual generational D (in the playoffs). He has regressed there tremendously. Guys like Curry and Klay/DLo (concerning your GS comment) will run circles around him (and were in the Finals). Beverly is a pest, but he's not a high impact shutdown defender. And the paint protection absolutely matters. I don't see them as a top 3 D, let alone a generational D. Time will tell.
I agree their D is being overstated as individuals. In terms of depth of good or better defenders though, it's being understated. Nobody for example is realizing guys like Zubac, Harkless, McGruder are really capable defenders. Instead they are focusing on Kawhi+PG. Also Beverley ranked like 4th last year in PG defensive metrics pretty sure. Over 2+ DRPM which is very very hard to do as a guard. If anything his defense was UNDERRATED last year if you look at guys like Klay who didn't deserve it one bit making the all defense teams.

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#17 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 am

Dominater wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Dominater wrote:We're yet to even see if the Clippers are even the best team in their own building, let alone entire league
He's talking about on paper. Their bench alone is likely to be Shamet+Lou+McGruder+Harkless+Harrell. Teams are going to get run off the MF floor many nights. They aren't Warriors dynasty dominant on paper, but I do agree with the OP premise that if anything the team is being underrated to be every so slightly favored.

PG will start the season IMO and Kawhi isn't on rest protocol exactly. Assuming health I won't be surprised at all if they win 65 games, then get even better in the playoffs.

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I agree that they have as good of a shot as any, but there are several teams that have a seat at the table this year
But your post is what the OP is disagreeing on. People are acting like the Clippers are merely one of many contenders. He's arguing they should be much heavier favorites than they are. I'm somewhere in between. Clips aren't the Warriors, Kobe/Shaq Lakers or anything, but they are probably quite a bit better than being ever so slight favorites with 30% title odds. I'd personally say that figure is more like 50-60% given solid health.

The work Beverley+Harrell+Zubac+Shamet have put in all summer (none of these guys took more than a week or two off this summer) and it's just hard not to believe these guys will have huge seasons.

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#18 » by Pennebaker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:13 am

The problem is that Paul George is not actually that good. He's kind of a mirage, as he has been his entire career. A tier below the elite.

In the playoffs the Clippers will discover that Paul George is not enough as a #2 and they will look to add another big name in the offseason. We can start talking about Clipper dominance when they have a Big 3.

As it stands right now I dont think the Clippers can beat the Lakers in a series. LeBron and AD are both so much better than Paul George that the gap in talent (especially in terms of efficiency) will become painfully obvious.

Another reason to check the unbridled optimism...

Kawhi Leonard career averages:

17.7 pts, 6.3 reb, 2.4 ast

Paul George career averages:

19.8 pts, 6.3 reb, 3.3 ast

You've completely forgotten about the other side of these two players.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#19 » by Triples333 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:18 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.

It was a rare bright spot defensively for him this past season (including the playoffs) and that was a team effort from an actual generational D (in the playoffs). He has regressed there tremendously. Guys like Curry and Klay/DLo (concerning your GS comment) will run circles around him (and were in the Finals). Beverly is a pest, but he's not a high impact shutdown defender. And the paint protection absolutely matters. I don't see them as a top 3 D, let alone a generational D. Time will tell.
I agree their D is being overstated as individuals. In terms of depth of good or better defenders though, it's being understated. Nobody for example is realizing guys like Zubac, Harkless, McGruder are really capable defenders. Instead they are focusing on Kawhi+PG. Also Beverley ranked like 4th last year in PG defensive metrics pretty sure. Over 2+ DRPM which is very very hard to do as a guard. If anything his defense was UNDERRATED last year if you look at guys like Klay who didn't deserve it one bit making the all defense teams.

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His D-PiPM is 0.7 which is the same as his multi-year D-PIPM. Just watching him play I don't see a smart defender. I see a guy who is somewhat effective as a pest, but he can be easily exploited.

Overall I think they will have a very solid, but not great D. They will not be anywhere close to as good as Toronto was in the post season.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#20 » by Mighty Quinn » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 am

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Doesn't look like LAC has anybody to do the simple things, like passing the ball and running the offense.

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