People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree...

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#21 » by Dominater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:28 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Dominater wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:He's talking about on paper. Their bench alone is likely to be Shamet+Lou+McGruder+Harkless+Harrell. Teams are going to get run off the MF floor many nights. They aren't Warriors dynasty dominant on paper, but I do agree with the OP premise that if anything the team is being underrated to be every so slightly favored.

PG will start the season IMO and Kawhi isn't on rest protocol exactly. Assuming health I won't be surprised at all if they win 65 games, then get even better in the playoffs.

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I agree that they have as good of a shot as any, but there are several teams that have a seat at the table this year
But your post is what the OP is disagreeing on. People are acting like the Clippers are merely one of many contenders. He's arguing they should be much heavier favorites than they are. I'm somewhere in between. Clips aren't the Warriors, Kobe/Shaq Lakers or anything, but they are probably quite a bit better than being ever so slight favorites with 30% title odds. I'd personally say that figure is more like 50-60% given solid health.

The work Beverley+Harrell+Zubac+Shamet have put in all summer (none of these guys took more than a week or two off this summer) and it's just hard not to believe these guys will have huge seasons.

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If the Lakers have a now rejuvenated Dwight, the clipps will have no answer for that kind of size upfront. Thats why i was surprised that the Clipps themselves didn't quickly scoop up Dwight themselves when the Lakers signed Cousins. Harrells too small and Zubac too weak to match up to that kind of size
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#22 » by JN61 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:34 am

Clippers have 2 players who struggled with injuries last year, so don't be as sure with them just yet.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#23 » by LloydFree » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:41 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:I will say a few other things.

#1.) If Giannis develops more than a respectable jump shot, but even then, I still like the Clippers because Kawhi and PG can take him on the perimeter.

#2.) If Anthony Davis and Lebron James absolutely dominate they can give Clippers a run, but Kawhi has been known to be a Lebron stopper, and AD will need to go Shaq mode for their to be a legit chance if he's limited.

#3.) 76ers if Ben Simmons can go to the next level with a jump shot and Embiid can improve they IMO have the best shot. But that remains to be seen.

He doesn't need a good jumpshot, he needs to be able to hit Free throws so the team won't be afraid to give him the ball at the end of games and the team can run a normal Offense.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#24 » by udfa » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:46 am

It's very hard to have a great defense without a really good defensive 4 or 5.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#25 » by LipSkinMatter » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:52 am

Injuries aside, I agree with the premise of the OP. The Clippers should be pretty big favorites to win it all unless Klay comes back healthy in time for the playoffs.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#26 » by BloodNinja » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:54 am

Pennebaker wrote:The problem is that Paul George is not actually that good. He's kind of a mirage, as he has been his entire career. A tier below the elite.

In the playoffs the Clippers will discover that Paul George is not enough as a #2 and they will look to add another big name in the offseason. We can start talking about Clipper dominance when they have a Big 3.

As it stands right now I dont think the Clippers can beat the Lakers in a series. LeBron and AD are both so much better than Paul George that the gap in talent (especially in terms of efficiency) will become painfully obvious.

Another reason to check the unbridled optimism...

Kawhi Leonard career averages:

17.7 pts, 6.3 reb, 2.4 ast

Paul George career averages:

19.8 pts, 6.3 reb, 3.3 ast

You've completely forgotten about the other side of these two players.


George is most definitely a good enough second option. He averaged 28ppg last season and should be good for 22+ppg with a reduced scoring load this season. And his defending was amazing. In any case the Clippers have a 3rd 20ppg scorer on the team in Lou Williams who is also a closer in crunch time.

I'm not worried about the Clippers duo talent wise. George and Leonard were 1st & 2nd All-NBA last season - they proved their worth. LeBron only managed 3rd team and AD was nowhere to be found.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#27 » by ClipsFanSince98 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:19 am

Pennebaker wrote:The problem is that Paul George is not actually that good. He's kind of a mirage, as he has been his entire career. A tier below the elite.

In the playoffs the Clippers will discover that Paul George is not enough as a #2 and they will look to add another big name in the offseason. We can start talking about Clipper dominance when they have a Big 3.

As it stands right now I dont think the Clippers can beat the Lakers in a series. LeBron and AD are both so much better than Paul George that the gap in talent (especially in terms of efficiency) will become painfully obvious.

Another reason to check the unbridled optimism...

Kawhi Leonard career averages:

17.7 pts, 6.3 reb, 2.4 ast

Paul George career averages:

19.8 pts, 6.3 reb, 3.3 ast

You've completely forgotten about the other side of these two players.
Why are you posting career stats for two guys who are late bloomers of sorts? It makes no sense. Both weren't even stars until their what 5th seasons? How about we look at what's more important such as recent seasons? PG doesn't even need to lead the league again in RPM or put up 28/8/4. Small drop off to 24/8/4 ish with more engaged D and he's still an All NBA team guy. Kawhi didn't even become a full blown superstar till what 3 years ago? He just turned 28. Settle down on these weird posts plz.

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#28 » by Bayside » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:40 am

Interesting times in LA that is for sure. Great off season. Kudos to them. Look forward to seeing it in action and how the play making and size concerns actually play out. Interesting side proposition is what team is the most feared "hated" team in LA to get out of the WCF.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#29 » by Metallikid » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:55 am

The disrespect towards the soon-to-be defending champions is huge. We'll see if we can upset the Clippers in the Finals.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#30 » by Metallikid » Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:57 am

Dominater wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
Dominater wrote:I agree that they have as good of a shot as any, but there are several teams that have a seat at the table this year
But your post is what the OP is disagreeing on. People are acting like the Clippers are merely one of many contenders. He's arguing they should be much heavier favorites than they are. I'm somewhere in between. Clips aren't the Warriors, Kobe/Shaq Lakers or anything, but they are probably quite a bit better than being ever so slight favorites with 30% title odds. I'd personally say that figure is more like 50-60% given solid health.

The work Beverley+Harrell+Zubac+Shamet have put in all summer (none of these guys took more than a week or two off this summer) and it's just hard not to believe these guys will have huge seasons.

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If the Lakers have a now rejuvenated Dwight, the clipps will have no answer for that kind of size upfront. Thats why i was surprised that the Clipps themselves didn't quickly scoop up Dwight themselves when the Lakers signed Cousins. Harrells too small and Zubac too weak to match up to that kind of size


A lot of people don't think Dwight is capable of being a legitimate scorer again but I personally believe that LeBron-Dwight Pick-and-Rolls are probably unstoppable.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#31 » by SeniorWalker » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:02 am

I think Paul George has never been in a position where he's played with a clearly reliable true #1 option. Westbrook might have been briefly, but by the time George got there he was already post surgery and on a slight athletic decline. Still a top 15-20 player but not what he was 2-3 years ago. And that's if you even believe peak Westbrook was a true #1 in the first place. Theres certainly some debate to be had there, although I gave him credit for being a weak #1, someone who could have done better with stronger leadership fo rein him in.

George now plays behind Kawhi, who has consistently been in the top 5 for the last 3 years. His superstar level offense is rather new to most of us but assuming he is still capable of what he just did a few months ago, George now has a true #1 to play behind and does not have to worry about taking the pressure shots.

I think the clippers look the best overall on paper but they dont have a clear gap over the rest of the league or even their conference. They have a front court weakness as many have noted and need a little more playmaking.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#32 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:07 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Wide Open in regards to how heavily the Warriors were going into last season, sure yes. .


All that writing and apparently you don’t even agree with your own premise...
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#33 » by mdonnelly1989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:21 am

The_Hater wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Wide Open in regards to how heavily the Warriors were going into last season, sure yes. .


All that writing and apparently you don’t even agree with your own premise...


They aren't on the Warriors no, but it's still not that wide open, but yes I see why you say that.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#34 » by PistolPeteJR » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:23 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:I will say a few other things.

#1.) If Giannis develops more than a respectable jump shot, but even then, I still like the Clippers because Kawhi and PG can take him on the perimeter.

#2.) If Anthony Davis and Lebron James absolutely dominate they can give Clippers a run, but Kawhi has been known to be a Lebron stopper, and AD will need to go Shaq mode for their to be a legit chance if he's limited.

#3.) 76ers if Ben Simmons can go to the next level with a jump shot and Embiid can improve they IMO have the best shot. But that remains to be seen.


Kawhi has never been known to be a LeBron stopper, but from ‘14-15, was widely known to be the best defensive wing in the league, which he hasn’t been in a few seasons, getting by more on reputation (though he is obviously still a positive on that end).

This narrative that Kawhi stops LeBron needs to die already. He gets far too much credit for the Spurs team defense in ‘13 and ‘14, anchored by non other than Tim Duncan.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#35 » by lakerz12 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:25 am

You can talk them up all you want, but Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac, Harkless is a weak supporting cast.

That's way worse than what KD/Curry have had to support them the past few years.

It's arguably worse than Kawhi's cast in Toronto.

They are a very top heavy team. They need Kawhi/PG13 to have amazing seasons and stay healthy through the Playoffs or they have no chance.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#36 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:33 am

mdonnelly1989 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Wide Open in regards to how heavily the Warriors were going into last season, sure yes. .


All that writing and apparently you don’t even agree with your own premise...


They aren't on the Warriors no, but it's still not that wide open, but yes I see why you say that.


The Clippers might be the favourite, I would put them there as well, but we just went through 4-5 seasons where one team was the overwhelming favourite. With Durant they were the best team in NBA history IMO. The Clippers are good but several rungs below that.

And that’s why everyone is saying that the league is wide open again. I agree with them.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#37 » by Clyde Frazier » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:33 am

It's without question more wide open. Not even debatable. The warriors aren't the warriors anymore (although it will be interesting to see how far they can go in the playoffs if Klay is back relatively healthy).
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#38 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:36 am

lakerz12 wrote:You can talk them up all you want, but Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac, Harkless is a weak supporting cast.

That's way worse than what KD/Curry have had to support them the past few years.

It's arguably worse than Kawhi's cast in Toronto.

They are a very top heavy team. They need Kawhi/PG13 to have amazing seasons and stay healthy through the Playoffs or they have no chance.


Actually, the Clippers look like one of the deepest teams in the league this season. They did win 48 games without KL and PG you might recall?

Yes, they’re a bit top heavy, but that also describes the Lakers, the Rockets and the Warriors this season. That’s generally what happens when you have 2 or the top top players in the league but it doesn’t mean the Clips have a ‘weak’ supporting cast. They clearly don’t.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#39 » by lakerz12 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:40 am

The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:You can talk them up all you want, but Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac, Harkless is a weak supporting cast.

That's way worse than what KD/Curry have had to support them the past few years.

It's arguably worse than Kawhi's cast in Toronto.

They are a very top heavy team. They need Kawhi/PG13 to have amazing seasons and stay healthy through the Playoffs or they have no chance.


Actually, the Clippers look like one of the deepest teams in the league this season. They did win 48 games without KL and PG you might recall?

Yes, they’re a bit top heavy, but that also describes the Lakers, the Rockets and the Warriors this season. That’s generally what happens when you have 2 or the top top players in the league but it doesn’t mean the Clips have a ‘weak’ supporting cast. They clearly don’t.


They won 48 games without KL and PG? What are you talking about?

I can see how if you believe that that you would think the supporting cast is good.

Go back and look at their roster last year.

They had Tobias Harris for 55 games. He was their best player in that span. They were 30-25 with him.

They also had Gallo scoring 20 ppg. And SGA. And Bradley.

Lol. Yeah if they still had all of those guys I would agree with you.

As it is, if you remove KL/PG13 from THIS roster, they are a lottery team. They'd probably be the worst team in the West. I know you can say that about other teams, but stop with this 48 win nonsense.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#40 » by Triples333 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:45 am

The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:You can talk them up all you want, but Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac, Harkless is a weak supporting cast.

That's way worse than what KD/Curry have had to support them the past few years.

It's arguably worse than Kawhi's cast in Toronto.

They are a very top heavy team. They need Kawhi/PG13 to have amazing seasons and stay healthy through the Playoffs or they have no chance.


Actually, the Clippers look like one of the deepest teams in the league this season. They did win 48 games without KL and PG you might recall?

Yes, they’re a bit top heavy, but that also describes the Lakers, the Rockets and the Warriors this season. That’s generally what happens when you have 2 or the top top players in the league but it doesn’t mean the Clips have a ‘weak’ supporting cast. They clearly don’t.

That 48 win team overperformed on close games (they realisticly were closer to a 44 win team) and they lost their best young talent along with their best player (Gallo healthy, which he was for most of the year, **** on Harris). And that said, they also had Harris for most of thr year. They're not adding these dudes (both super injury prone and one is already missing the start of the year to another surgery) to the same roster. And they have zero synergy to boot.

All sharps will be shorting the Clippers, I promise you that. I don't see them winning the title.

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