People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree...

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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#41 » by ShotCreator » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:46 am

Kawhi is impossibly overrated. On both ends.

Lou WIlliams is a fringe starter. Which is why he does not start and got the contract offer he did.

Harrell is mostly the same way.

They are not better than Philly or MIL to me.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#42 » by Dino353 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:50 am

Portland is the favorite. They’ll win the title this coming season.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#43 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:50 am

lakerz12 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:You can talk them up all you want, but Beverley, Lou, Harrell, Shamet, Zubac, Harkless is a weak supporting cast.

That's way worse than what KD/Curry have had to support them the past few years.

It's arguably worse than Kawhi's cast in Toronto.

They are a very top heavy team. They need Kawhi/PG13 to have amazing seasons and stay healthy through the Playoffs or they have no chance.


Actually, the Clippers look like one of the deepest teams in the league this season. They did win 48 games without KL and PG you might recall?

Yes, they’re a bit top heavy, but that also describes the Lakers, the Rockets and the Warriors this season. That’s generally what happens when you have 2 or the top top players in the league but it doesn’t mean the Clips have a ‘weak’ supporting cast. They clearly don’t.


They won 48 games without KL and PG? What are you talking about?

I can see how if you believe that that you would think the supporting cast is good.

Go back and look at their roster last year.

They had Tobias Harris for 55 games. He was their best player in that span. They were 30-25 with him.

They also had Gallo scoring 20 ppg. And SGA. And Bradley.

Lol. Yeah if they still had all of those guys I would agree with you.

As it is, if you remove KL/PG13 from THIS roster, they are a lottery team. They'd probably be the worst team in the West.


You’re just helping prove my point. They went 8-6 without Gallo and 18-9 without Harris last season. Doesn’t that just prove how good their depth is? That’s the way it looks to me.

And yes, if you remove the Clipper 2 best players that is a lottery team. As are the Lakers without their 2 best players, and the Rockets and the Warriors, and the Blazers and the Nuggets and the Jazz. I’m not exactly sure what point you think this makes but the Clippers still have excellent depth regardless. They’re one of the 3-4 deepest teams in the league.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#44 » by Catchall » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:05 am

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the Jazz might be better than the Clippers. They have a better backcourt, better center and better coaching. They can also force PG13 into difficult shots, as they've done in the past. It'll all come down to Kawhi's ability to dominate and how well they hold together when Kawhi is off the floor. I think it'll be close.

The Clippers need Kawhi and PG to be dominant, as much as the Lakers need Lebron and Ad to dominate. They don't have enough scoring and shot creation outside of those two.

There's also a chance that the Rockets' players somehow work well together. A slim chance, but a chance. If that's the case, they could be tough to deal with.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#45 » by lakerz12 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:14 am

The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Actually, the Clippers look like one of the deepest teams in the league this season. They did win 48 games without KL and PG you might recall?

Yes, they’re a bit top heavy, but that also describes the Lakers, the Rockets and the Warriors this season. That’s generally what happens when you have 2 or the top top players in the league but it doesn’t mean the Clips have a ‘weak’ supporting cast. They clearly don’t.


They won 48 games without KL and PG? What are you talking about?

I can see how if you believe that that you would think the supporting cast is good.

Go back and look at their roster last year.

They had Tobias Harris for 55 games. He was their best player in that span. They were 30-25 with him.

They also had Gallo scoring 20 ppg. And SGA. And Bradley.

Lol. Yeah if they still had all of those guys I would agree with you.

As it is, if you remove KL/PG13 from THIS roster, they are a lottery team. They'd probably be the worst team in the West.


You’re just helping prove my point. They went 8-6 without Gallo and 18-9 without Harris last season. Doesn’t that just prove how good their depth is? That’s the way it looks to me.

And yes, if you remove the Clipper 2 best players that is a lottery team. As are the Lakers without their 2 best players, and the Rockets and the Warriors, and the Blazers and the Nuggets and the Jazz. I’m not exactly sure what point you think this makes but the Clippers still have excellent depth regardless. They’re one of the 3-4 deepest teams in the league.


No, that doesn't prove anything. 18-9 without Harris? Didn't they still have Gallo, SGA, and Bradley playing a ton of minutes? Those guys aren't on this team anymore. You're proving my point.

This roster is totally different to last year's, so any comparisons are meaningless.

You haven't explained how their depth is quality. If I look at the statistics of the supporting cast it is mediocre at best.

It's 2 All NBA players and a bunch of average NBA players. Harrell is the only one who's actually above average.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#46 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:22 am

Clippers aren’t very good inside and are a bad passing team. I see a lot of ISO ball in their future, which is easy to stop for good defensive teams in the playoffs. They have issues with that roster that need to be addressed without many assets to do it with.

They are one of the favorites but aren’t close to being an overwhelming favorite.

Also this misnomer of Pat Beverley being a good defensive player these days has to stop. He’s physical yes, but BB Index only graded him as a C- perimeter defender based on his synergy data. The Clippers signed a 4 million dollar bench player to a 13 million dollar contract with a starting job.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#47 » by RaptorPride » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:30 am

ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Triples333 wrote:You are heavily overeating their D. Kawhi is no longer the best defensive SF, Beverly is most certainly not the best defensive PG, and they are weak defensively as far as paint protection goes, which dictates how elite your D can be.

I would definitely take the field over the Clippers.


Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.
Also Harkless can guard 4 positions. People keep knocking Kawhi's defense because no question the last couple regular seasons he has took the foot off the pedal. That being said, we saw him neutralize Giannis and in the playoffs he played better defense. Nobody here is worried about regular season D. When the games become grindy in the playoffs I'm taking Beverley, PG, Kawhi, Harkless over anyone else to get stops as a unit. If they add Iggy it's even more lights out in that regard. Also people keep emphasizing paint d where Zubac was the #4 most effective rim defender in the NBA. He's going to continue getting better.

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Kawhi didn't neutralize Giannis alone he needed Gasol or Ibaka in the paint to double team him to stop Giannis. Gasol played a huge roll in stopping Giannis with his interior defense just like how did to Embidd and Vucevic. All players who get there points in the paint. Gasol played a huge role in us winning the title.


Now, every day in my head, I’m seeing Gasol double-team me,” Antetokounmpo said. “You think I’m joking, but I’m not. I’m not seeing anybody else. I don’t care who’s guarding me. Give me a name. Thaddeus Young. All I’m seeing is Kawhi, Gasol coming because I know that. When I get to that situation, it might not be them. It might be (Joel) Embiid. Ben Simmons guarding me, Embiid double- teaming, but that’s what I’m seeing now. That’s what I feel like I have to do better.” “And, thank you. Thank you, because Gasol and Kawhi made me a better player. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I’m being honest. They’re going to push me to be better. You gotta use this year as motivation. You cannot just come here and mope around.

https://theathletic.com/1001604/2019/05/30/giannis-antetokounmpo-unplugged-bucks-star-sounds-off-about-his-playoff-performance-and-teams-tough-finish/



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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#48 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:33 am

Dino353 wrote:Portland is the favorite. They’ll win the title this coming season.


I don’t think they are remotely the favorites, BUT I will meet you half way here. The more I look at their roster, the more I like it. It’s clearly the best Portland team yet and is going to do a lot more damage than a couple of teams that others think are better than them.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#49 » by RaptorPride » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:58 am

RaptorPride wrote:
ClipsFanSince98 wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:
Kawhi absolutely neutralized Giannis last playoffs no reason to think he won't still be very good on that end. Beverly is def in the conversation. They can clog the pain knowing that their perimeter defense is going to be able to make up for it.
Also Harkless can guard 4 positions. People keep knocking Kawhi's defense because no question the last couple regular seasons he has took the foot off the pedal. That being said, we saw him neutralize Giannis and in the playoffs he played better defense. Nobody here is worried about regular season D. When the games become grindy in the playoffs I'm taking Beverley, PG, Kawhi, Harkless over anyone else to get stops as a unit. If they add Iggy it's even more lights out in that regard. Also people keep emphasizing paint d where Zubac was the #4 most effective rim defender in the NBA. He's going to continue getting better.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using RealGM mobile app


Kawhi didn't neutralize Giannis alone he needed Gasol or Ibaka in the paint to double team him to stop Giannis. Gasol played a huge roll in stopping Giannis with his interior defense just like how did to Embidd and Vucevic. All players who get there points in the paint. Gasol played a huge role in us winning the title.


Now, every day in my head, I’m seeing Gasol double-team me,” Antetokounmpo said. “You think I’m joking, but I’m not. I’m not seeing anybody else. I don’t care who’s guarding me. Give me a name. Thaddeus Young. All I’m seeing is Kawhi, Gasol coming because I know that. When I get to that situation, it might not be them. It might be (Joel) Embiid. Ben Simmons guarding me, Embiid double- teaming, but that’s what I’m seeing now. That’s what I feel like I have to do better.” “And, thank you. Thank you, because Gasol and Kawhi made me a better player. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I’m being honest. They’re going to push me to be better. You gotta use this year as motivation. You cannot just come here and mope around.

https://theathletic.com/1001604/2019/05/30/giannis-antetokounmpo-unplugged-bucks-star-sounds-off-about-his-playoff-performance-and-teams-tough-finish/




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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#50 » by mademan » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:00 am

Any team relying on PG to be a top 2 option in a playoff setting is not a far favourite in anything.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#51 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:42 am

lakerz12 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
They won 48 games without KL and PG? What are you talking about?

I can see how if you believe that that you would think the supporting cast is good.

Go back and look at their roster last year.

They had Tobias Harris for 55 games. He was their best player in that span. They were 30-25 with him.

They also had Gallo scoring 20 ppg. And SGA. And Bradley.

Lol. Yeah if they still had all of those guys I would agree with you.

As it is, if you remove KL/PG13 from THIS roster, they are a lottery team. They'd probably be the worst team in the West.


You’re just helping prove my point. They went 8-6 without Gallo and 18-9 without Harris last season. Doesn’t that just prove how good their depth is? That’s the way it looks to me.

And yes, if you remove the Clipper 2 best players that is a lottery team. As are the Lakers without their 2 best players, and the Rockets and the Warriors, and the Blazers and the Nuggets and the Jazz. I’m not exactly sure what point you think this makes but the Clippers still have excellent depth regardless. They’re one of the 3-4 deepest teams in the league.


No, that doesn't prove anything. 18-9 without Harris? Didn't they still have Gallo, SGA, and Bradley playing a ton of minutes? Those guys aren't on this team anymore. You're proving my point.

This roster is totally different to last year's, so any comparisons are meaningless.

You haven't explained how their depth is quality. If I look at the statistics of the supporting cast it is mediocre at best.

It's 2 All NBA players and a bunch of average NBA players. Harrell is the only one who's actually above average.


Lou Williams own the 6man award last year for the 3rd time. Doesn’t count in your eyes huh?

Since you refuse to concede the most obvious of points, and it appears that you’re just being spiteful because it’s the Clippers, I’m going to leave you alone now so that you can be delusional about the Clippers terrible roster by yourself. Good luck.
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Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#52 » by nikster » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:04 pm

lakerz12 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
They won 48 games without KL and PG? What are you talking about?

I can see how if you believe that that you would think the supporting cast is good.

Go back and look at their roster last year.

They had Tobias Harris for 55 games. He was their best player in that span. They were 30-25 with him.

They also had Gallo scoring 20 ppg. And SGA. And Bradley.

Lol. Yeah if they still had all of those guys I would agree with you.

As it is, if you remove KL/PG13 from THIS roster, they are a lottery team. They'd probably be the worst team in the West.


You’re just helping prove my point. They went 8-6 without Gallo and 18-9 without Harris last season. Doesn’t that just prove how good their depth is? That’s the way it looks to me.

And yes, if you remove the Clipper 2 best players that is a lottery team. As are the Lakers without their 2 best players, and the Rockets and the Warriors, and the Blazers and the Nuggets and the Jazz. I’m not exactly sure what point you think this makes but the Clippers still have excellent depth regardless. They’re one of the 3-4 deepest teams in the league.


No, that doesn't prove anything. 18-9 without Harris? Didn't they still have Gallo, SGA, and Bradley playing a ton of minutes? Those guys aren't on this team anymore. You're proving my point.

This roster is totally different to last year's, so any comparisons are meaningless.

You haven't explained how their depth is quality. If I look at the statistics of the supporting cast it is mediocre at best.

It's 2 All NBA players and a bunch of average NBA players. Harrell is the only one who's actually above average.

If Clippers are so thin can you name 3 other contenders with a deeper bench outside of top 2 players?
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#53 » by TroubleS0me » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:24 pm

SeniorWalker wrote:I think Paul George has never been in a position where he's played with a clearly reliable true #1 option. Westbrook might have been briefly, but by the time George got there he was already post surgery and on a slight athletic decline. Still a top 15-20 player but not what he was 2-3 years ago. And that's if you even believe peak Westbrook was a true #1 in the first place. Theres certainly some debate to be had there, although I gave him credit for being a weak #1, someone who could have done better with stronger leadership fo rein him in.

George now plays behind Kawhi, who has consistently been in the top 5 for the last 3 years. His superstar level offense is rather new to most of us but assuming he is still capable of what he just did a few months ago, George now has a true #1 to play behind and does not have to worry about taking the pressure shots.

I think the clippers look the best overall on paper but they dont have a clear gap over the rest of the league or even their conference. They have a front court weakness as many have noted and need a little more playmaking.


PG was the #1 option last season
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#54 » by Liminy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:39 pm

They are a clear favorite but not a heavy one. I would put their odds between 25 and 30 percent. The Warriors were 50+ the last few years. Also, the tier just beneath them is broad and more players can still move.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#55 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:02 pm

The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
You’re just helping prove my point. They went 8-6 without Gallo and 18-9 without Harris last season. Doesn’t that just prove how good their depth is? That’s the way it looks to me.

And yes, if you remove the Clipper 2 best players that is a lottery team. As are the Lakers without their 2 best players, and the Rockets and the Warriors, and the Blazers and the Nuggets and the Jazz. I’m not exactly sure what point you think this makes but the Clippers still have excellent depth regardless. They’re one of the 3-4 deepest teams in the league.


No, that doesn't prove anything. 18-9 without Harris? Didn't they still have Gallo, SGA, and Bradley playing a ton of minutes? Those guys aren't on this team anymore. You're proving my point.

This roster is totally different to last year's, so any comparisons are meaningless.

You haven't explained how their depth is quality. If I look at the statistics of the supporting cast it is mediocre at best.

It's 2 All NBA players and a bunch of average NBA players. Harrell is the only one who's actually above average.


Lou Williams own the 6man award last year for the 3rd time. Doesn’t count in your eyes huh?

Since you refuse to concede the most obvious of points, and it appears that you’re just being spiteful because it’s the Clippers, I’m going to leave you alone now so that you can be delusional about the Clippers terrible roster by yourself. Good luck.


6'1buck 170 guys who are 33 years old should be seen as a wait and see type. He was sold offensively last year, but he's at that age where he's eventually going to just drop off a cliff.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#56 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:04 pm

SeniorWalker wrote:I think Paul George has never been in a position where he's played with a clearly reliable true #1 option. Westbrook might have been briefly, but by the time George got there he was already post surgery and on a slight athletic decline. Still a top 15-20 player but not what he was 2-3 years ago. And that's if you even believe peak Westbrook was a true #1 in the first place. Theres certainly some debate to be had there, although I gave him credit for being a weak #1, someone who could have done better with stronger leadership fo rein him in.

George now plays behind Kawhi, who has consistently been in the top 5 for the last 3 years. His superstar level offense is rather new to most of us but assuming he is still capable of what he just did a few months ago, George now has a true #1 to play behind and does not have to worry about taking the pressure shots.

I think the clippers look the best overall on paper but they dont have a clear gap over the rest of the league or even their conference. They have a front court weakness as many have noted and need a little more playmaking.


PG before the shoulder injury was heads and shoulders better than Leonard last year. We'll see if he can both repeat his outlier season AND recover from shoulder surgery (both are highly questionable), but if he comes back like last year, he'll give Leonard more than a run for best player on the clippers.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#57 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:05 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
lakerz12 wrote:
No, that doesn't prove anything. 18-9 without Harris? Didn't they still have Gallo, SGA, and Bradley playing a ton of minutes? Those guys aren't on this team anymore. You're proving my point.

This roster is totally different to last year's, so any comparisons are meaningless.

You haven't explained how their depth is quality. If I look at the statistics of the supporting cast it is mediocre at best.

It's 2 All NBA players and a bunch of average NBA players. Harrell is the only one who's actually above average.


Lou Williams own the 6man award last year for the 3rd time. Doesn’t count in your eyes huh?

Since you refuse to concede the most obvious of points, and it appears that you’re just being spiteful because it’s the Clippers, I’m going to leave you alone now so that you can be delusional about the Clippers terrible roster by yourself. Good luck.


6'1buck 170 guys who are 33 years old should be seen as a wait and see type. He was sold offensively last year, but he's at that age where he's eventually going to just drop off a cliff.


Sure, but he’s coming off the best season of his career so perhaps some Laker fan assuming that he’s already hot garbage is a bit of an overkill.
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Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#58 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:08 pm

ShotCreator wrote:Kawhi is impossibly overrated. On both ends.

....

They are not better than Philly or MIL to me.


Wasn’t Kawhi the best player in both the Sixers series and the Bucks series last year?

This entire take just seems mistimed.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#59 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:10 pm

The_Hater wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Lou Williams own the 6man award last year for the 3rd time. Doesn’t count in your eyes huh?

Since you refuse to concede the most obvious of points, and it appears that you’re just being spiteful because it’s the Clippers, I’m going to leave you alone now so that you can be delusional about the Clippers terrible roster by yourself. Good luck.


6'1buck 170 guys who are 33 years old should be seen as a wait and see type. He was sold offensively last year, but he's at that age where he's eventually going to just drop off a cliff.


Sure, but he’s coming off the best season of his career so perhaps some Laker fan assuming that he’s already hot garbage is a bit of an overkill.


I mean his RPM was negative last year as he gave back pretty much everything he did on offense on defense. I'd hardly consider last year a career year due to his decline defensively. I know RPM is noisy but that seems to pass my all be it VERY limited eye test on him last year. Given his age I'd expect him to keep declining.

Worse for the clippers but while a good team can hide bad point guards, the clippers don't to my knowledge have anyone who can protect the rim when his man beats him. That just compounds the problem.

Hot garbage is over kill, but seeing him as a clear positive come playoff time is pretty questionable.
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Re: People who say the NBA is more wide open this year than previous years, I disagree... 

Post#60 » by The_Hater » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:26 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
6'1buck 170 guys who are 33 years old should be seen as a wait and see type. He was sold offensively last year, but he's at that age where he's eventually going to just drop off a cliff.


Sure, but he’s coming off the best season of his career so perhaps some Laker fan assuming that he’s already hot garbage is a bit of an overkill.


I mean his RPM was negative last year as he gave back pretty much everything he did on offense on defense. I'd hardly consider last year a career year due to his decline defensively. I know RPM is noisy but that seems to pass my all be it VERY limited eye test on him last year. Given his age I'd expect him to keep declining.

Worse for the clippers but while a good team can hide bad point guards, the clippers don't to my knowledge have anyone who can protect the rim when his man beats him. That just compounds the problem.

Hot garbage is over kill, but seeing him as a clear positive come playoff time is pretty questionable.


Most people would argue that you’re grossly underrating him. Apparently Sports Illustrated agrees, they just placed him 53rd in their list which was well ahead of Harrell and pretty much every other bench player in the league.
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Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.


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