California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements

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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#121 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:28 pm

xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206

:lol: of course not....
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#122 » by NBAFan93 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:29 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
'no one is allowed to make money off these kids except us!'

what pieces of **** these people are. throw them in prison.


Who do you think is “us” exactly? This is where NCAA money goes:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

It doesn’t actually go to a rich owner or group of owners of the NCAA. Who exactly are you throwing in prison?


It also goes directly into the pockets of people like:

62 head football coaches making at least $2 million per year
55 head basketball coaches making at least $2 million per year
Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott ($4.8 million per year)
Big 10 commissioner Bob Bowslby ($3.1 million per year)
NCAA commissioner Mark Emmert ($2.4 million per year)
Pac 12 Network president Lydia Murphy-Stephens ($1.2 million per year)

Hell, LSU's DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR makes $2.5 million per year.

For an enterprise that can't scrape enough money together to pay players, they sure don't seem to have much problem paying themselves.


So if coaches and athletic administrators made less money, it would be less of a problem? I mean they do have high responsibility jobs that aren’t what I’d call easy. There are a lot of high school athletic directors and head coaches who make really, really good money too. Maybe not millions, but a lot - and those kids don’t get paid.

So the coaches and commissioners are who you’d put in jail in this case?
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#123 » by TheHartBreakKid » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:29 pm

I love it. California being awesome as usual.


Forcing players to attend college (or to play overseas), but not allowing them to make money of it is just pure wrong. I know it's a complex situation and I'm simplifying it like crazy, but to me, that's what it boils down to do;

College needs a CBA. I'm not saying players should get salaries or guaranteed, but they absolutely deserve to make money off their endorsements and a share of TV revenues and ticket sales. More importantly, they option to jump straight into the NBA.

I think a good compromise would be:

Highschool players can jump straight to the pros if they prefer. However, if they choose to go to college, they should be forced to commit to the full 4 years. (or a minimum 2, 4 years might be unrealistic). If they choose to go to college, players receive a full scholarship and a percentage of revenues from ticket sales and endorsements. This percentage shouldn't be anything substantial, but it should be enough to give an incentive for players to choose this option. Obviously figuring out the math that makes it fair here would be the biggest challenge in this scenario. The NCAA would still retain 100% of TV revenue.


What this does:

- Elite level highschool prospects can get paid. Those willing to take the risk but not being good enough for the NBA still have the option to play in the Dleague, which would inevitably improve the GLeague and create more revenue there as well.

- The NCAA still keep the majority of their revenue, and put out a better product which includes 4 years of players and team development. They would have to share some of the revenue, and they won't have the benefit of having the Zion's play for a year, but they atleast gain something to soften the inevitable blow.

-The NBA benefits from having star prospects there one season earlier, along with more talent in the Gleague.

- Prospects not good enough to jump straight to the pros sacrifice the freedom to leave college at any time, but will continue to get their free education (and actually be forced to complete it), and will receive some compensation during their 4 college years.


I'm sure there are a lot flaws in this plan, but off the top, I think if done correctly, it could leave all parties content considering the alternatives. The NCAA would probably hate it, but I think their downfall is inevitable, and they need to sacrifice something to stay afloat.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#124 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:30 pm

xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206


Probably the 3rd Amendment.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#125 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:38 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206


Probably the 3rd Amendment.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

uh no.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#126 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:41 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
Who do you think is “us” exactly? This is where NCAA money goes:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

It doesn’t actually go to a rich owner or group of owners of the NCAA. Who exactly are you throwing in prison?


It also goes directly into the pockets of people like:

62 head football coaches making at least $2 million per year
55 head basketball coaches making at least $2 million per year
Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott ($4.8 million per year)
Big 10 commissioner Bob Bowslby ($3.1 million per year)
NCAA commissioner Mark Emmert ($2.4 million per year)
Pac 12 Network president Lydia Murphy-Stephens ($1.2 million per year)

Hell, LSU's DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR makes $2.5 million per year.

For an enterprise that can't scrape enough money together to pay players, they sure don't seem to have much problem paying themselves.


So if coaches and athletic administrators made less money, it would be less of a problem? I mean they do have high responsibility jobs that aren’t what I’d call easy. There are a lot of high school athletic directors and head coaches who make really, really good money too. Maybe not millions, but a lot - and those kids don’t get paid.

So the coaches and commissioners are who you’d put in jail in this case?


It's pretty simple: The money is clearly there. Indeed, they're practically swimming in it. (Again, non-profit my ass.)

They just don't want to pay players, because that's less money for them, and nobody's forcing them to.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#127 » by MoneyTalks41890 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:42 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206


Probably the 3rd Amendment.

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

uh no.


Right. It's a joke.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#128 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:49 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
This is where it goes.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

Evil nefarious purposes indeed - we need it to buy Zion and his mom Ferrari’s ASAP cause the world is just a worse place without that - :roll:

I get so annoyed w/ this whole assumption that a non-profit institution making money off its tournament- so it can fund collegiate athletics for young adults in our colleges - is a bad thing. Heaven forbid some soon to be millionaire kid has to wait a year or two to get paid and ONLY has access to a free college education and room and board for that timeframe.

I guess this will play out however, but wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up in the Supreme Court who will decide whether the NCAA can still keep its non-profit classification w/ these athletes making money, and if they can’t, the tournament will probably end. Their policy is the way it is cause of tax status. You can’t have what are essentially professional athletes playing a sport, earn money on it, and not pay taxes on that income - and a college needs it’s non-profit status for more important things than a basketball tournament.


Conversely, if I'm a star quarterback at State U, playing in front of 80,000 every weekend and however many millions more on TV, why the hell should I care about subsidizing water polo and fencing teams?

The idea that the NCAA is non-profit is absolutely ludicrous. When you're pulling in more than a billion in revenue -- and that's just them, not counting individual schools who rake in their own small mountains of cash -- you are no longer non-profit. You are very much a for-profit business in every sense of the term.

Which is why it's so ridiculous that guys like Dabo Swinney will preach about the sanctity of student-athletes (lol) while having absolutely no problem pulling in $8 million-plus per year to coach college football. And why wouldn't he? Cut the players in, and that's money directly out of his -- and all the other coaches' and support staffers' and administrators' -- pockets.

The bottom line is, the model of college sports is grossly outdated given their current economics. The only reasons they don't pay players is because, A. They don't want to; and B. They don't have to.


It’s a very slippery slope giving college players money... and the tax thing is a huge deal. And it’s not even just about paying the taxes themselves - things like facility rentals, building permits/leases, food and beverage vending, equipment purchases, donations and sponsors - so much of that stuff is handled WAY differently cause something is a non-profit versus a for-profit.


Students agreeing to outside contracts to sell their likeness has nothing to do with any of that.

It would be completely outside the NCAA and not impact their non-profit status.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#129 » by mademan » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:57 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
Who do you think is “us” exactly? This is where NCAA money goes:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/where-does-money-go

It doesn’t actually go to a rich owner or group of owners of the NCAA. Who exactly are you throwing in prison?


It also goes directly into the pockets of people like:

62 head football coaches making at least $2 million per year
55 head basketball coaches making at least $2 million per year
Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott ($4.8 million per year)
Big 10 commissioner Bob Bowslby ($3.1 million per year)
NCAA commissioner Mark Emmert ($2.4 million per year)
Pac 12 Network president Lydia Murphy-Stephens ($1.2 million per year)

Hell, LSU's DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR makes $2.5 million per year.

For an enterprise that can't scrape enough money together to pay players, they sure don't seem to have much problem paying themselves.


So if coaches and athletic administrators made less money, it would be less of a problem? I mean they do have high responsibility jobs that aren’t what I’d call easy. There are a lot of high school athletic directors and head coaches who make really, really good money too. Maybe not millions, but a lot - and those kids don’t get paid.

So the coaches and commissioners are who you’d put in jail in this case?


The overall point is simple; money and value is being created. People that are integral to the creation of said money and value not only receive no real dollar tangible remuneration for it, they are forbidden to even negotiate for it. Theyre not even allowed to make money outside of the school. Thats absolutely ridiculous
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#130 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 pm

I don't understand the objections to this at all.

Look - there are actually are arguments that make sense wrt paying the players directly. It's pretty complicated (although no un-doable) and it would be tricky to come up with a system that works, preserves non-profit status, etc.

However, allowing players to sell their likeness and work however they would like off the field/court is an easy solution. Players can make money in ways that have nothing to do with the NCAA and will have no impact on them. Right now a basketball player can't even get paid to be an instructor at a camp - it's completely insane. These kids are not slaves - the NCAA has no business dictating what they do to earn money off the field/court as long as it doesn't impact their academics or play.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#131 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:12 pm

LKN wrote:I don't understand the objections to this at all.

Look - there are actually are arguments that make sense wrt paying the players directly. It's pretty complicated (although no un-doable) and it would be tricky to come up with a system that works, preserves non-profit status, etc.

However, allowing players to sell their likeness and work however they would like off the field/court is an easy solution. Players can make money in ways that have nothing to do with the NCAA and will have no impact on them. Right now a basketball player can't even get paid to be an instructor at a camp - it's completely insane. These kids are not slaves - the NCAA has no business dictating what they do to earn money off the field/court as long as it doesn't impact their academics or play.

Players would be taxed or face tax evasion. There not getting free money they will still pay for endorsements they get
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#132 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:18 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
LKN wrote:I don't understand the objections to this at all.

Look - there are actually are arguments that make sense wrt paying the players directly. It's pretty complicated (although no un-doable) and it would be tricky to come up with a system that works, preserves non-profit status, etc.

However, allowing players to sell their likeness and work however they would like off the field/court is an easy solution. Players can make money in ways that have nothing to do with the NCAA and will have no impact on them. Right now a basketball player can't even get paid to be an instructor at a camp - it's completely insane. These kids are not slaves - the NCAA has no business dictating what they do to earn money off the field/court as long as it doesn't impact their academics or play.

Players would be taxed or face tax evasion. There not getting free money they will still pay for endorsements they get


Um yeah... they also get taxed if they work in the dining hall. What's your point?
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#133 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:24 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
LKN wrote:I don't understand the objections to this at all.

Look - there are actually are arguments that make sense wrt paying the players directly. It's pretty complicated (although no un-doable) and it would be tricky to come up with a system that works, preserves non-profit status, etc.

However, allowing players to sell their likeness and work however they would like off the field/court is an easy solution. Players can make money in ways that have nothing to do with the NCAA and will have no impact on them. Right now a basketball player can't even get paid to be an instructor at a camp - it's completely insane. These kids are not slaves - the NCAA has no business dictating what they do to earn money off the field/court as long as it doesn't impact their academics or play.

Players would be taxed or face tax evasion. There not getting free money they will still pay for endorsements they get


that's it, players in the NBA can't make money off endorsements because taxes

better tell Steph to drop that Brita sponsorship
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#134 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:26 pm

mademan wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
It also goes directly into the pockets of people like:

62 head football coaches making at least $2 million per year
55 head basketball coaches making at least $2 million per year
Pac 12 commissioner Larry Scott ($4.8 million per year)
Big 10 commissioner Bob Bowslby ($3.1 million per year)
NCAA commissioner Mark Emmert ($2.4 million per year)
Pac 12 Network president Lydia Murphy-Stephens ($1.2 million per year)

Hell, LSU's DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR makes $2.5 million per year.

For an enterprise that can't scrape enough money together to pay players, they sure don't seem to have much problem paying themselves.


So if coaches and athletic administrators made less money, it would be less of a problem? I mean they do have high responsibility jobs that aren’t what I’d call easy. There are a lot of high school athletic directors and head coaches who make really, really good money too. Maybe not millions, but a lot - and those kids don’t get paid.

So the coaches and commissioners are who you’d put in jail in this case?


The overall point is simple; money and value is being created. People that are integral to the creation of said money and value not only receive no real dollar tangible remuneration for it, they are forbidden to even negotiate for it. Theyre not even allowed to make money outside of the school. Thats absolutely ridiculous


people like NBAFan93 are complicit in this fraudulent system that has been blackmailing these kids for decades...there isn't a single reasonable argument against this. none.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#135 » by NBAFan93 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:36 pm

LKN wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
Conversely, if I'm a star quarterback at State U, playing in front of 80,000 every weekend and however many millions more on TV, why the hell should I care about subsidizing water polo and fencing teams?

The idea that the NCAA is non-profit is absolutely ludicrous. When you're pulling in more than a billion in revenue -- and that's just them, not counting individual schools who rake in their own small mountains of cash -- you are no longer non-profit. You are very much a for-profit business in every sense of the term.

Which is why it's so ridiculous that guys like Dabo Swinney will preach about the sanctity of student-athletes (lol) while having absolutely no problem pulling in $8 million-plus per year to coach college football. And why wouldn't he? Cut the players in, and that's money directly out of his -- and all the other coaches' and support staffers' and administrators' -- pockets.

The bottom line is, the model of college sports is grossly outdated given their current economics. The only reasons they don't pay players is because, A. They don't want to; and B. They don't have to.


It’s a very slippery slope giving college players money... and the tax thing is a huge deal. And it’s not even just about paying the taxes themselves - things like facility rentals, building permits/leases, food and beverage vending, equipment purchases, donations and sponsors - so much of that stuff is handled WAY differently cause something is a non-profit versus a for-profit.


Students agreeing to outside contracts to sell their likeness has nothing to do with any of that.

It would be completely outside the NCAA and not impact their non-profit status.


But it would make the “professional athletes” if they can make and accept that money. Charging money to watch professional athletes competing against each other is what the NBA and NFL are...and those organizations pay taxes. It’s why it’s a big deal and it’s the crux of all this controversy.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#136 » by SK21209 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:36 pm

Ballerhogger wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206

:lol: of course not....


I think the NCAA could potentially have a case under the Contracts Clause. Generally, states aren't allowed to pass laws that interfere with the obligations of private contracts.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#137 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:44 pm

NBAFan93 wrote:
LKN wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
It’s a very slippery slope giving college players money... and the tax thing is a huge deal. And it’s not even just about paying the taxes themselves - things like facility rentals, building permits/leases, food and beverage vending, equipment purchases, donations and sponsors - so much of that stuff is handled WAY differently cause something is a non-profit versus a for-profit.


Students agreeing to outside contracts to sell their likeness has nothing to do with any of that.

It would be completely outside the NCAA and not impact their non-profit status.


But it would make the “professional athletes” if they can make and accept that money. Charging money to watch professional athletes competing against each other is what the NBA and NFL are...and those organizations pay taxes. It’s why it’s a big deal and it’s the crux of all this controversy.


Actually it wouldn't - you are completely misunderstanding this entire debate/discussion. Kids being allowed to earn money OFF the field/court by selling their likeness (or getting whatever job) would have nothing to do with the NCAA at all. There would be no impact on the non-profit status of the NCAA (and FWIW, somehow the NFL maintained non-profit status until a few years ago so it's not like it's that hard to keep).

https://time.com/3839164/nfl-tax-exempt-status/

You can donate your time to a non-profit organization - or even work at one and also have another job that is for-profit and it will have no impact on that non-profit organization.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#138 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:47 pm

SK21209 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206

:lol: of course not....


I think the NCAA could potentially have a case under the Contracts Clause. Generally, states aren't allowed to pass laws that interfere with the obligations of private contracts.


States are absolutely allowed to set rules for private contracts.

However, that certainly might be an angle they try.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#139 » by clyde21 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:52 pm

SK21209 wrote:
Ballerhogger wrote:
xdrta+ wrote:The NCAA sent a harsh letter to Governor Newsom Wednesday morning, detailing all the evils that would ensue if he signs this bill. Amazingly, it ended with this plea, "We urge the state of California to reconsider this harmful and, we believe, unconstitutional bill..."

The letter didn't specify which part of the Constitution the bill violates.

NCAA letter:
https://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-responds-california-senate-bill-206

:lol: of course not....


I think the NCAA could potentially have a case under the Contracts Clause. Generally, states aren't allowed to pass laws that interfere with the obligations of private contracts.


what are you talking about? ever heard of minimum wage? California isn't changing existing contracts. It's saying future contracts from 2023 on need to do X.
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Re: California passes law to allow student-athletes to make money off endorsements 

Post#140 » by NBAFan93 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:58 pm

clyde21 wrote:
mademan wrote:
NBAFan93 wrote:
So if coaches and athletic administrators made less money, it would be less of a problem? I mean they do have high responsibility jobs that aren’t what I’d call easy. There are a lot of high school athletic directors and head coaches who make really, really good money too. Maybe not millions, but a lot - and those kids don’t get paid.

So the coaches and commissioners are who you’d put in jail in this case?


The overall point is simple; money and value is being created. People that are integral to the creation of said money and value not only receive no real dollar tangible remuneration for it, they are forbidden to even negotiate for it. Theyre not even allowed to make money outside of the school. Thats absolutely ridiculous


people like NBAFan93 are complicit in this fraudulent system that has been blackmailing these kids for decades...there isn't a single reasonable argument against this. none.


its actually the IRS and the non-profit tax laws that are the most complicit if you really want to place blame. There are a lot of advantages given to non-profits like education institutions, religious organizations and charities that for profit businesses and individuals do not enjoy. The fact that college athletics had been historically intertwined w/ non profit institutions is the biggest reason all this drama exists - it’s something that started long before TV deals, shoe endorsements and even the NBA/NFL. It either needs divorced from these institutions, or the IRS\Gov’t needs to give some type of exception for it. Again I see it going to the Supreme Court if this law keeps going.

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