The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson

Moderators: zimpy27, bwgood77, BombsquadSammy, Yuri Vaultin, PockyCandy, Prez, ken6199, Dirk, Domejandro

User avatar
Duffman100
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 20,728
And1: 21,987
Joined: Jun 27, 2002
   

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#41 » by Duffman100 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:48 pm

bran muffin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Let's actually talk about the fact that 26 year old has made her way behind the bench.

A pretty, 26-yr old young woman as a coach is a recipe for potential PR disaster. In an ideal world, every NBA player is a fine upstanding gentleman who doesn't have hangups with female authority figures. But unfortunately, not all players in the NBA are going to see past her gender, youth and looks.

This movement to integrate women into coaching staff is great PR when everything is going well. But if things go sour, it's going to explode big time and become a huge PR disaster. Especially when people start hurling sexual harassment and misoginy accusations around. There's a reason why most female coaches brought into the NBA tend to be older, experienced, or at least very accomplished. Teams are bringing in the kind of women who wouldn't be disrespected by the male players.

But a young, pretty and inexperienced coach like Brittni Donaldson is too risky, IMHO. She's the type who will be easily disrespected. Especially since she has never coached at any level before. At least have her coach a G-League team for a year or two before putting her on the bench of an NBA team. I'm pretty sure most female coaches in the NBA had experience coaching in college, in WNBA or at least in the G-League.


Why would a G-League team really be any different? Same type of people? I'd say put her with experienced season coaches who can help with the transition.
BNM
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,553
And1: 1,691
Joined: Jun 28, 2016

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#42 » by BNM » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:48 pm

Good move by TOR. Right person for the job regardless of gender or age. Competence, professionalism and work ethic should be the basis for any hiring/promotion decision. Congrats to Brittni Donaldson on her promotion. Well deserved and earned.
bran muffin
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,633
And1: 2,598
Joined: Dec 15, 2009
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#43 » by bran muffin » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:56 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:Masai would ship anyone out that messed with her.

Irrelevant. If it's an important star that messes with her, or if it's just any scrub with a long-term guaranteed contract... then it's a lose-lose situation. You've made your basketball team objectively worse to make a statement for social justice.

And consider yourself lucky if it's the boorish male player who is on the wrong side of a dispute with her. What if she's actually the one on the wrong side of the dispute? Once her lawyer starts using words like "sexual harassment" and "misogony" then good luck trying to get her off the team without creating a huge PR disaster. Whatever good will you earned from hiring a female coach would be dwarfed tenfold by the public fury you'll incur for firing an alleged victim of sexual harassment.

Like I said: Other teams are being more cautious by hiring experienced and/or accomplished female candidates that won't get disrespected by their male subordinates. Brittni Donaldson's youth and lack of coaching experience make her a riskier hire.
bran muffin
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,633
And1: 2,598
Joined: Dec 15, 2009
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#44 » by bran muffin » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:05 pm

Duffman100 wrote:Why would a G-League team really be any different? Same type of people? I'd say put her with experienced season coaches who can help with the transition.

My thinking is that the G-League is filled exclusively with fringe players on day-to-day contracts, desperately trying to make it into the NBA. They will be at their best behavior. In the NBA, stars have huge egos and almost everyone has their own fully guaranteed contracts.

Regardless of gender, I just feel like people with zero coaching experience at any level should probably get their feet wet at the G-League first. Then later transition to the NBA. An exception can be made for former NBA players going into coaching, since they've already spent an entire career in the NBA.
User avatar
Duffman100
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 20,728
And1: 21,987
Joined: Jun 27, 2002
   

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#45 » by Duffman100 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:11 pm

bran muffin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Why would a G-League team really be any different? Same type of people? I'd say put her with experienced season coaches who can help with the transition.

My thinking is that the G-League is filled exclusively with fringe players on day-to-day contracts, desperately trying to make it into the NBA. They will be at their best behavior. In the NBA, stars have huge egos and almost everyone has their own fully guaranteed contracts.

Regardless of gender, I just feel like people with zero coaching experience at any level should probably get their feet wet at the G-League first. Then later transition to the NBA. An exception can be made for former NBA players going into coaching, since they've already spent an entire career in the NBA.


Maybe. Maybe they've decided that their best chance of winning and succeeding is with her up with the pro club.

I mean, I trust the braintrust in Toronto. I highly doubt this is a PR move, but rather a warranted promotion.
User avatar
homecourtloss
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,035
And1: 6,522
Joined: Dec 29, 2012

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#46 » by homecourtloss » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:12 pm

fianchetto wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:Good looking gal too. Wouldn't be shocked if Raptor players shoot their shot at her


This is why it's so hard for women to get ahead. No respect for her accomplishments, just care about her appearance


No, it’s also because women themselves value looks more than anything else. Whether that’s by social conditioning or whatever is another debate. This is why certain female athletes have more followers (female followers) than other. It’s a reason why the WNBA gets zero traction with women.

The great majority of top women athletes reap the benefits from looks and market themselves this way (see any Instagram account). Women THEMSELVES judge other females by looks more harshly than anyone. For example WOMEN tip prettier females more than men: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/pretty-waitresses-earn-bigger-tips-from-women-2015-9

I have female acquaintances who are doing some important/amazing things but literally ALL of them on social media get more likes and positive attention FROM OTHER FEMALES for posts based on how they look. What they DID posts don’t. I have never seen an exception to this.
LBJ’s 2018 Playoff run vs. MJ’s best playoff runs
and also
Greatest Playoffs Carry Jobs ever

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1783139&p=71567195#p71567195

OdomFan wrote:I'd rather have Ray Allen on my team [over Curry].
User avatar
homecourtloss
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,035
And1: 6,522
Joined: Dec 29, 2012

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#47 » by homecourtloss » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:12 pm

Double post.
LBJ’s 2018 Playoff run vs. MJ’s best playoff runs
and also
Greatest Playoffs Carry Jobs ever

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1783139&p=71567195#p71567195

OdomFan wrote:I'd rather have Ray Allen on my team [over Curry].
User avatar
Texas Chuck
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Senior Mod - Mavericks and NBA TnT Forum
Posts: 47,201
And1: 30,765
Joined: May 19, 2012
         

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#48 » by Texas Chuck » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:31 pm

bran muffin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Let's actually talk about the fact that 26 year old has made her way behind the bench.

A pretty, 26-yr old young woman as a coach is a recipe for potential PR disaster. In an ideal world, every NBA player is a fine upstanding gentleman who doesn't have hangups with female authority figures. But unfortunately, not all players in the NBA are going to see past her gender, youth and looks.

This movement to integrate women into coaching staff is great PR when everything is going well. But if things go sour, it's going to explode big time and become a huge PR disaster. Especially when people start hurling sexual harassment and misoginy accusations around. There's a reason why most female coaches brought into the NBA tend to be older, experienced, or at least very accomplished. Teams are bringing in the kind of women who wouldn't be disrespected by the male players.

But a young, pretty and inexperienced coach like Brittni Donaldson is too risky, IMHO. She's the type who will be easily disrespected. Especially since she has never coached at any level before. At least have her coach a G-League team for a year or two before putting her on the bench of an NBA team. I'm pretty sure most female coaches in the NBA had experience coaching in college, in WNBA or at least in the G-League.


Not giving someone you have determined to be qualified a chance because you assume other people won't be able to handle it is really wrong and I hope you re-think your position here.

And yeah its thinking like this that continues to hold back women for no good reason.
FNQ wrote: Once JJ is healed, the Mavs Big 3 are gonna be something..
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 12,932
And1: 4,407
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#49 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:41 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
fianchetto wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:Good looking gal too. Wouldn't be shocked if Raptor players shoot their shot at her


This is why it's so hard for women to get ahead. No respect for her accomplishments, just care about her appearance


No, it’s also because women themselves value looks more than anything else. Whether that’s by social conditioning or whatever is another debate. This is why certain female athletes have more followers (female followers) than other. It’s a reason why the WNBA gets zero traction with women.

The great majority of top women athletes reap the benefits from looks and market themselves this way (see any Instagram account). Women THEMSELVES judge other females by looks more harshly than anyone. For example WOMEN tip prettier females more than men: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/pretty-waitresses-earn-bigger-tips-from-women-2015-9

I have female acquaintances who are doing some important/amazing things but literally ALL of them on social media get more likes and positive attention FROM OTHER FEMALES for posts based on how they look. What they DID posts don’t. I have never seen an exception to this.


You're just echoing the point here. The way women are reinforced is heavily skewed by their looks. Do we value women's looks because it's what they want...or do they value their looks because it's the only thing society cares about? Not a very difficult question in my opinion. It's not like we overlook their accomplishments because they'd rather be valued by there looks. Can't put the blame on women for this one. You're not doing Donaldson a favor by overlooking her accomplishment and complimenting her looks.
User avatar
lobosloboslobos
General Manager
Posts: 8,306
And1: 9,907
Joined: Jan 08, 2009
Location: space is the place
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#50 » by lobosloboslobos » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:52 pm

KqWIN wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
KqWIN wrote:"Range" has me thinking about all the truly unusual paths we'll see into the NBA. Diverse thinkers and perspectives will be the new edge in the NBA.


Getting ideas and opinions from qualified voices that generally go unheard or are prevented from having access to opportunity due to gender is like raiding a treasure chest. the more teams see others reaping the benefits of it the more it will become commonplace.

All it takes is for forward thinkers that are in a position of authority that can open up doors of opportunity, like Popovich and Ujiri, to get the ball rolling.


Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


very true. Raps are way ahead of the curve on this front. Masai is a brilliant and fearless outsider who has already done a lot stuff differently and seen it pay off.
Image
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 12,932
And1: 4,407
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#51 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:00 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Getting ideas and opinions from qualified voices that generally go unheard or are prevented from having access to opportunity due to gender is like raiding a treasure chest. the more teams see others reaping the benefits of it the more it will become commonplace.

All it takes is for forward thinkers that are in a position of authority that can open up doors of opportunity, like Popovich and Ujiri, to get the ball rolling.


Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


very true. Raps are way ahead of the curve on this front. Masai is a brilliant and fearless outsider who has already done a lot stuff differently and seen it pay off.


Something that's common among the best organizations is innovation. There's always going to be a new frontier that the quick adopters will benefit from. Pop and the Spurs found gold in overseas prospects. Everybody does it now. Not sure who you want to give credit to as the earliest adopters of the 3 ball and analytics, but everyone does it now. Hiring diverse coaches and FO members is going to be the new thing. There's going to be a huge influx of coaches of different backgrounds, gender etc.
User avatar
Jadoogar
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,977
And1: 4,086
Joined: May 06, 2010
   

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#52 » by Jadoogar » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:08 pm

Pharenheit wrote:
Jadoogar wrote:
Pharenheit wrote:
So now complimenting a woman's appearance counts as being sexist?


It's just a dumb unnecessary comment. No one comments on Daryl Morey or Frank Vogel's looks.


Whatever guy lol


hahaha lol women amirite
Sabas11
Junior
Posts: 433
And1: 180
Joined: Oct 21, 2009
Location: France-Ireland

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#53 » by Sabas11 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:11 pm

bran muffin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Let's actually talk about the fact that 26 year old has made her way behind the bench.

A pretty, 26-yr old young woman as a coach is a recipe for potential PR disaster. In an ideal world, every NBA player is a fine upstanding gentleman who doesn't have hangups with female authority figures. But unfortunately, not all players in the NBA are going to see past her gender, youth and looks.

This movement to integrate women into coaching staff is great PR when everything is going well. But if things go sour, it's going to explode big time and become a huge PR disaster. Especially when people start hurling sexual harassment and misoginy accusations around. There's a reason why most female coaches brought into the NBA tend to be older, experienced, or at least very accomplished. Teams are bringing in the kind of women who wouldn't be disrespected by the male players.

But a young, pretty and inexperienced coach like Brittni Donaldson is too risky, IMHO. She's the type who will be easily disrespected. Especially since she has never coached at any level before. At least have her coach a G-League team for a year or two before putting her on the bench of an NBA team. I'm pretty sure most female coaches in the NBA had experience coaching in college, in WNBA or at least in the G-League.


You're basically saying teams shouldn't hire young, good-looking women because of men's sexist tendencies.

That's like saying I dont want to hire gay people because homosexuals are stigmatized in the workplace, and hiring some of them will create even more homophobia. Isn't there something wrong with this reasoning? If we keep the status quo, at what point does the situation improve?
User avatar
Vampirate
Pro Prospect
Posts: 784
And1: 529
Joined: Dec 04, 2016
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#54 » by Vampirate » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:20 pm

If she's qualified she's qualified. She's also good looking to boot.

Imo she's got a dream life, a well paid respected dream job that she loves with youth and looks to boot.
Image
User avatar
realball
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,242
And1: 1,068
Joined: Sep 13, 2006
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#55 » by realball » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:49 pm

homecourtloss wrote:26 year old non-NBA player already an assistant coach? Seems unusual indeed.

Also, the language used seems more like a team fostering an ideas project rather than simply getting someone for the job.

Ujiri watched from his office and was impressed when Donaldson sat with Gasol after the workout, opened a laptop, and took him through some of Toronto's plays. "We were confident Brittni could do it," Ujiri says. "But when you see her do it, it's different." Nurse made it clear Donaldson will not be "the analytics person" on the coaching staff, though she will take the lead translating such data for players and coaches. She will do everything the other coaches do: scout opponents, debate rotations and X's and O's, and pitch strategic ideas.


Would anyone ever say, “We were confident Bob could do it, but when you see him do it, it’s different.”

Would anyone write “He will do everything other coaches do”?


Uggh, virtue signalling at its finest. The reason it was pointed out that she will do what any other coach does is because she's a 26 year old female. Women coaching in the NBA is only a recent phenomenon, and a 26-year old coaching has basically never happened. Nothing wrong with pointing out a rare occurrence.
User avatar
Johnny Bball
RealGM
Posts: 20,715
And1: 19,238
Joined: Feb 01, 2015
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#56 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:05 pm

KqWIN wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
KqWIN wrote:"Range" has me thinking about all the truly unusual paths we'll see into the NBA. Diverse thinkers and perspectives will be the new edge in the NBA.


Getting ideas and opinions from qualified voices that generally go unheard or are prevented from having access to opportunity due to gender is like raiding a treasure chest. the more teams see others reaping the benefits of it the more it will become commonplace.

All it takes is for forward thinkers that are in a position of authority that can open up doors of opportunity, like Popovich and Ujiri, to get the ball rolling.


Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


Yep. Its as simple as this... why in the world would anyone cut their talent pool in half and disqualify half with any type of predisposed opinion. I don't really consider this to be all that forward thinking by the Raptors. I just consider it normal not-stupid behavior.

Like someone else said, the age factor here is far more interesting and far more ...well, questionable when you don't know the person. Now age... age I have predisposed opinions about far more often with regards to leadership. But since we don't really know her, there's not much to be gained from it.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 29,972
And1: 11,136
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#57 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:17 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
bran muffin wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:Let's actually talk about the fact that 26 year old has made her way behind the bench.

A pretty, 26-yr old young woman as a coach is a recipe for potential PR disaster. In an ideal world, every NBA player is a fine upstanding gentleman who doesn't have hangups with female authority figures. But unfortunately, not all players in the NBA are going to see past her gender, youth and looks.

This movement to integrate women into coaching staff is great PR when everything is going well. But if things go sour, it's going to explode big time and become a huge PR disaster. Especially when people start hurling sexual harassment and misoginy accusations around. There's a reason why most female coaches brought into the NBA tend to be older, experienced, or at least very accomplished. Teams are bringing in the kind of women who wouldn't be disrespected by the male players.

But a young, pretty and inexperienced coach like Brittni Donaldson is too risky, IMHO. She's the type who will be easily disrespected. Especially since she has never coached at any level before. At least have her coach a G-League team for a year or two before putting her on the bench of an NBA team. I'm pretty sure most female coaches in the NBA had experience coaching in college, in WNBA or at least in the G-League.


Why would a G-League team really be any different? Same type of people? I'd say put her with experienced season coaches who can help with the transition.


Yeah, as if the issues he brings up would magically not happen because it's G League players instead of NBA players. Utterly ridiculous.

If you have a well run organization with a good cultural structure and an environment that isn't toxic and hostile towards women, none of this is a problem. Becky Hammon has been a coach for how long?
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 29,972
And1: 11,136
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#58 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:19 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Getting ideas and opinions from qualified voices that generally go unheard or are prevented from having access to opportunity due to gender is like raiding a treasure chest. the more teams see others reaping the benefits of it the more it will become commonplace.

All it takes is for forward thinkers that are in a position of authority that can open up doors of opportunity, like Popovich and Ujiri, to get the ball rolling.


Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


Yep. Its as simple as this... why in the world would anyone cut their talent pool in half and disqualify half with any type of predisposed opinion. I don't really consider this to be all that forward thinking by the Raptors. I just consider it normal not-stupid behavior.

Like someone else said, the age factor here is far more interesting and far more ...well, questionable when you don't know the person. Now age... age I have predisposed opinions about far more often with regards to leadership. But since we don't really know her, there's not much to be gained from it.


To you and I it's absolutely normal behavior. But read some of the comments in here... :lol: it's baffling how threatened dudes are by women earning opportunities that are routinely handed over to men.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like
KqWIN
RealGM
Posts: 12,932
And1: 4,407
Joined: May 15, 2014
 

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#59 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
Getting ideas and opinions from qualified voices that generally go unheard or are prevented from having access to opportunity due to gender is like raiding a treasure chest. the more teams see others reaping the benefits of it the more it will become commonplace.

All it takes is for forward thinkers that are in a position of authority that can open up doors of opportunity, like Popovich and Ujiri, to get the ball rolling.


Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


Yep. Its as simple as this... why in the world would anyone cut their talent pool in half and disqualify half with any type of predisposed opinion. I don't really consider this to be all that forward thinking by the Raptors. I just consider it normal not-stupid behavior.

Like someone else said, the age factor here is far more interesting and far more ...well, questionable when you don't know the person. Now age... age I have predisposed opinions about far more often with regards to leadership. But since we don't really know her, there's not much to be gained from it.


I don't think you're crazy to be skeptical about age and experience...but age diversity has value. I'm not saying organizations should be run by a bunch of kids, but having a mix is a good thing. The most qualified person in a traditional sense might not be the person who can add to the most to the team. Having fresh opinions and different perspectives is huge plus and often necessary to spark the best ideas.
User avatar
MrDollarBills
RealGM
Posts: 29,972
And1: 11,136
Joined: Feb 15, 2008
     

Re: The unusual path of new Raptors assistant coach Brittni Donaldson 

Post#60 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:21 am

KqWIN wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
Gender is almost low hanging fruit at this point. NBA teams will move quickly to tap into that talent and reap the benefits. It's like when teams figured out the three pointer is good. New, unique perspectives will become the new gold. Group think will be the common enemy teams are playing against.


Yep. Its as simple as this... why in the world would anyone cut their talent pool in half and disqualify half with any type of predisposed opinion. I don't really consider this to be all that forward thinking by the Raptors. I just consider it normal not-stupid behavior.

Like someone else said, the age factor here is far more interesting and far more ...well, questionable when you don't know the person. Now age... age I have predisposed opinions about far more often with regards to leadership. But since we don't really know her, there's not much to be gained from it.


I don't think you're crazy to be skeptical about age and experience...but age diversity has value. I'm not saying organizations should be run by a bunch of kids, but having a mix is a good thing. The most qualified person in a traditional sense might not be the person who can add to the most to the team. Having fresh opinions and different perspectives is huge plus and often necessary to spark the best ideas.


Totally agree with this. While age experience is invaluable, having the perspective of a younger person who sees things that you don't at a certain age within your room has tremendous value.
Wear your insides...on the outside,
Show your enemy...what you look like

Return to The General Board