Adopt the FIBA rules (Poll Added)

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Should the NBA adopt FIBA's rules to improve D and showcase athletic shotblockers and shooting bigs?

Yes
69
75%
No
23
25%
 
Total votes: 92

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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#41 » by crkone » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:46 pm

CoachD wrote:
crkone wrote:So instead of having to be big and athletic enough to recover to guard the paint you just need to be a big stiff? Get out of here with that. In fact I'd rather see the 3 point line moved back with a larger restricted area to open it up even more.



False.

If a guy sits in the paint to just guard the rim, the NBA now has a HUGE array of centers that shoot mids and 3s...

Every NBA team puts plodding centers / shotblockers into pick and roll actions - this doesn't change that. If the center decides to sit back on it, and ICE the ball handler, they are leaving shooters WIDE open


And smart teams will let shooters shoot those open midrangers if the guard chases the ball handler off the screen. A shot at the rim is the best shot in the league analytically. Long and tall plodders can just sit there and discourage any attempt at the rim. If a team wants a deep PnR or PnP behind the 3 point, they can again go ahead and try that, that's still not as valuable as a shot at the rim.

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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#42 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:47 pm

CoachD wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
CoachD wrote:

The Raps will be #1 or very close to it in passes per game this year. They were last year when Kawhi wasn't on the floor - and now they have a full year of Gasol. Their roster this season is very good. Going forward, who the hell knows - but I watched Nurse run BEAUTIFUL actions with a bunch of schlubs on Team Canada last month, so I have a LOT of faith in him



Eh, I think they'll make the playoffs but the roster isn't that great and it's completely dependent on Siakam taking the next step as a scorer. You lost your two best wing defenders, top scorer and top 3 point shooter, that's not something you recover from easily, especially not if you think they will be able to compete with the Sixers.


Kawhi is an excellent defender (obviously) but during the regular season he was barely a net positive. He coasted. Toronto will have a top 5 defense.

All of the advanced metrics suggest they will be very, very good



This discussion wasn't about regular season to be honest, it was a hypothetical about how dominant the Sixers would be with Fiba rules and how they'd win 3 titles. You seem to think the Raptors without Kawhi/Green can compete with the Sixers, with or without Fiba rules.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#43 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:49 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
CoachD wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Eh, I think they'll make the playoffs but the roster isn't that great and it's completely dependent on Siakam taking the next step as a scorer. You lost your two best wing defenders, top scorer and top 3 point shooter, that's not something you recover from easily, especially not if you think they will be able to compete with the Sixers.


Kawhi is an excellent defender (obviously) but during the regular season he was barely a net positive. He coasted. Toronto will have a top 5 defense.

All of the advanced metrics suggest they will be very, very good



This discussion wasn't about regular season to be honest, it was a hypothetical about how dominant the Sixers would be with Fiba rules and how they'd win 3 titles. You seem to think the Raptors without Kawhi/Green can compete with the Sixers, with or without Fiba rules.


Damn right. 8-)
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#44 » by MrSparkle » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:50 pm

I’m all for it but stubborn NBA-centrics will never admit to the NBA’s format dragging.

What the **** excitement is there in 1h45 of commercials, timeouts and referee whistles (48min of actual “game”)? You get to the last 2 minutes of a close game and it becomes a parody marathon of itself.

Hell yes the FIBA rules are better:

1. Kill the live timeouts where you get to advance the ball for a better shot in a half-court set (ridiculous if you step back and think about it).

2. Be able to touch the ball if it hits rim outside the cylinder.

3. Don’t stop the clock on inbound play.

4. Three sec zone rules are more complex. They might have to move the 3P line closer to offset the advantage big men defenders regain. Gobert, Deandre Jordan and Drummond types with broke offensive games would become MVP candidates. But I’d certainly consider it, along with possibly moving the 3P line up. That would kill the advantage of Curry’s insane 3P range, but... he should theoretically shoot better with less distance.

There’s nothing boring about a 65-80 game. It’s 40 minutes and a much faster and fun pace. Those extra 20-40 points you get in NBA are due to touch foul free throw charities and 8 more minutes on the clock.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#45 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:51 pm

CoachD wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
CoachD wrote:
Kawhi is an excellent defender (obviously) but during the regular season he was barely a net positive. He coasted. Toronto will have a top 5 defense.

All of the advanced metrics suggest they will be very, very good



This discussion wasn't about regular season to be honest, it was a hypothetical about how dominant the Sixers would be with Fiba rules and how they'd win 3 titles. You seem to think the Raptors without Kawhi/Green can compete with the Sixers, with or without Fiba rules.


Damn right. 8-)

:lol:

I think you'll be good, I just view the Sixers as the team to beat overall.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#46 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:51 pm

crkone wrote:
CoachD wrote:
crkone wrote:So instead of having to be big and athletic enough to recover to guard the paint you just need to be a big stiff? Get out of here with that. In fact I'd rather see the 3 point line moved back with a larger restricted area to open it up even more.



False.

If a guy sits in the paint to just guard the rim, the NBA now has a HUGE array of centers that shoot mids and 3s...

Every NBA team puts plodding centers / shotblockers into pick and roll actions - this doesn't change that. If the center decides to sit back on it, and ICE the ball handler, they are leaving shooters WIDE open


And smart teams will let shooters shoot those open midrangers if the guard chases the ball handler off the screen. A shot at the rim is the best shot in the league analytically. Long and tall plodders can just sit there and discourage any attempt at the rim. If a team wants a deep PnR or PnP behind the 3 point, they can again go ahead and try that, that's still not as valuable as a shot at the rim.



Old school logic.


In 2019 / 2020, that P&R could be a P&P with a center draining 3s. That cannot be tolerated by the guy sitting in the RA
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#47 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:54 pm

At a minimum I'd like to see defensive 3 seconds eliminated. It's a dumb rule and it's yet another thing refs have to track and they already have too much to watch. Heck, it would probably be fine to eliminate offensive 3 seconds altogether at this point.

I think NBA players are awesome and would adapt just fine to basically allowing any defense to be played.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#48 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

MrSparkle wrote:I’m all for it but stubborn NBA-centrics will never admit to the NBA’s format dragging.

What the **** excitement is there in 1h45 of commercials, timeouts and referee whistles (48min of actual “game”)? You get to the last 2 minutes of a close game and it becomes a parody marathon of itself.

Hell yes the FIBA rules are better:

1. Kill the live timeouts where you get to advance the ball for a better shot in a half-court set (ridiculous if you step back and think about it).

2. Be able to touch the ball if it hits rim outside the cylinder.

3. Don’t stop the clock on inbound play.

4. Three sec zone rules are more complex. They might have to move the 3P line closer to offset the advantage big men defenders regain. Gobert, Deandre Jordan and Drummond types with broke offensive games would become MVP candidates. But I’d certainly consider it, along with possibly moving the 3P line up. That would kill the advantage of Curry’s insane 3P range, but... he should theoretically shoot better with less distance.

There’s nothing boring about a 65-80 game. It’s 40 minutes and a much faster and fun pace. Those extra 20-40 points you get in NBA are due to touch foul free throw charities and 8 more minutes on the clock.



Great post

I don't think the advantage would be that much bigger for the defense that they would need to go to a college 3 pt line. NBA centers are hitting 3s at a respectable clip now.

The last time the NBA did not have the 2.9 defense rule, those types of players simply didn't exist.

So now, a coach gets to pick his poison. Sit in the key and detour wide open strolls to the basket, or stop the 7 footer who's killing you from deep

Literally the ONLY change in terms of scoring distribution would be that going to the rim would be reserved for the TRULY talented athletes like it used to be, or for the teams that run great sets to get open looks.

Right now, anybody can go to the rim, totally unafraid
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#49 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

There are definitely some things the NBA should adapt. Number one on the list would be replay reviews where the refs don't speak the same language. Even with the language barrier, the process was 10x faster.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#50 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:59 pm

LKN wrote:At a minimum I'd like to see defensive 3 seconds eliminated. It's a dumb rule and it's yet another thing refs have to track and they already have too much to watch. Heck, it would probably be fine to eliminate offensive 3 seconds altogether at this point.

I think NBA players are awesome and would adapt just fine to basically allowing any defense to be played.


Agreed.

And we saw last year in the playoffs, a LOT of teams (Raptors, Celtics, Bucks, Sixers, Warriors) would routinely break the defensive 3 rule and DARE the ref to keep blowing the whistle - which they know the ref won't do every time. So, to me, this is a NATURAL progression of the rules for the regular season
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#51 » by rugbyrugger23 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:04 pm

CoachD wrote:
rugbyrugger23 wrote:The NBA doesn’t care what ‘collective us’ posting here think — not because we are degenerate message board trolls — but because we are die hard NBA fans. We are the smallest percentage of what makes up their viewing population (viewing being mostly TV but, ok, in arenas too).

Any league has to appeal to their number one fan population — the passive sports fan. The largest population of fan. These are the people who sit to the right of the die hard fan and to the left of person who doesn’t care about sports and won’t watch anyway.

This is why the NFL is king. Their games are a all welcoming social event and sports entertainment spectacle with a 1 week buildup to the main event (the Super Bowl being the Super Bowl of this entertainment product). Passive fans can get involved in a weekly event. They can and will watch on any forum — more so if a social setting involved (bar, party, tailgate).

The passive NFL fan can follow an organization a lot easier than a star (like NBA). NBA showcases their stars, and although NFL does too, the franchise blood runs deeper — even for passive fan. And more than likely passed down from one generation to the next (how many passive NFL fans do you know cheer for a specific team because “my dad or mom did?”)

Example: The passive NFL fan may be a Cowboys fan (puke) because they are “America’s Team” or because they like the uniform or because Jerry Jones (laugh) or because they reside in Dallas — but nothing specifically due to Dak, Tony, Troy, Roger — as those stars have come and gone over the years. (Not that those names are not important part of Cowboys history and legend, just not the end all be all of fandom for passive NFL fan).

A good NBA example is Bulls fans. How many less Bulls and NBA fans are there today vs. when Jordan played? Millions less. Why? The passive Bulls/NBA fan was able to attach themselves to Jordan. When the star left the building, so did that passive NBA fan.

Note: I know NFL fantasy football and NFL betting are a huge part (maybe bigger part) of NFL being king of sports entertainment, but that is a thread (or two) in itself!


Do you know what CASUAL NBA fans say?

They make fun of how "easy" it is to score and say the whole game is meaningless except the last 2 minutes. THIS rule change brings back some of the smashmouth nature that is so popular in Football

If the passive NBA fan truly believes what you quoted above and it is affecting NBA TV ratings, of course NBA will consider any and all rule changes to appeal to them. But any and all rule changes MUST appeal to the passive NBA fan not the die hard. If it appeals to both, great. But passive fan appeal is a must not a luxury like die hard’s agreeing.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#52 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:05 pm

CoachD wrote:
LKN wrote:At a minimum I'd like to see defensive 3 seconds eliminated. It's a dumb rule and it's yet another thing refs have to track and they already have too much to watch. Heck, it would probably be fine to eliminate offensive 3 seconds altogether at this point.

I think NBA players are awesome and would adapt just fine to basically allowing any defense to be played.


Agreed.

And we saw last year in the playoffs, a LOT of teams (Raptors, Celtics, Bucks, Sixers, Warriors) would routinely break the defensive 3 rule and DARE the ref to keep blowing the whistle - which they know the ref won't do every time. So, to me, this is a NATURAL progression of the rules for the regular season


There are quite a few big guys who are good at sticking a foot on the lane line every 2.5 seconds too :-)
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#53 » by BodieB » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:09 pm

The NBA is supposed to consist of the greatest athletes in the world. Adopting rules that allow 40 year old unathletic players like Scola decide a game would undermine that.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#54 » by crkone » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:10 pm

CoachD wrote:
crkone wrote:
CoachD wrote:

False.

If a guy sits in the paint to just guard the rim, the NBA now has a HUGE array of centers that shoot mids and 3s...

Every NBA team puts plodding centers / shotblockers into pick and roll actions - this doesn't change that. If the center decides to sit back on it, and ICE the ball handler, they are leaving shooters WIDE open


And smart teams will let shooters shoot those open midrangers if the guard chases the ball handler off the screen. A shot at the rim is the best shot in the league analytically. Long and tall plodders can just sit there and discourage any attempt at the rim. If a team wants a deep PnR or PnP behind the 3 point, they can again go ahead and try that, that's still not as valuable as a shot at the rim.



Old school logic.


In 2019 / 2020, that P&R could be a P&P with a center draining 3s. That cannot be tolerated by the guy sitting in the RA


And if that center doesn't shoot over 50% from behind the arc on 3 pointers on wide open shots, it's still a worse shot than an open shot at the rim. This is the exact defense the Bucks played last season and why they lead the league in percentage at the rim defended, and lead the league on defense. The only reason they occasionally changed it was in the tiny chance a big man got hot for a game. It's why the Raptors were smart to take away the paint by doubling and tripling the paint while letting Bucks role players die by the open 3s.

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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#55 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:11 pm

BodieB wrote:The NBA is supposed to consist of the greatest athletes in the world. Adopting rules that allow 40 year old unathletic players like Scola decide a game would undermine that.


You're clearly not getting it.

This does NOTHING to diminish the need for a center to be athletic... it would put EMPHASIS on that fact. Stepping out to protect against shooting bigs and recovering to block weakside layups is GREAT basketball
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#56 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:12 pm

crkone wrote:
CoachD wrote:
crkone wrote:
And smart teams will let shooters shoot those open midrangers if the guard chases the ball handler off the screen. A shot at the rim is the best shot in the league analytically. Long and tall plodders can just sit there and discourage any attempt at the rim. If a team wants a deep PnR or PnP behind the 3 point, they can again go ahead and try that, that's still not as valuable as a shot at the rim.



Old school logic.


In 2019 / 2020, that P&R could be a P&P with a center draining 3s. That cannot be tolerated by the guy sitting in the RA


And if that center doesn't shoot over 50% from behind the arc on 3 pointers on wide open shots, it's still a worse shot than an open shot at the rim. This is the exact defense the Bucks played last season and why they lead the league in percentage at the rim defended, and lead the league on defense. The only reason they occasionally changed it was in the tiny chance a big man got hot for a game. It's why the Raptors were smart to take away the paint by doubling and tripling the paint while letting Bucks role players die by the open 3s.



Re-read your comments.

You are literally making my point as to why the FIBA rules would make a better game
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#57 » by JonFromVA » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:14 pm

CoachD wrote:I saw someone post this on Facebook, and I full co-sign on this idea.

The NBA needs to adopt the FIBA defensive rules.

No defensive 3 or (2.9 as NBA coaches and players refer to it) should be a must. Stop punishing shot blockers for eating up space and being big. If you want them out of the key, move them the old fashioned way... by putting them in P&R actions or running sets or having big bodies throw screens at them.

The goaltend rule and the physicality in the key should also be adopted. I'd much rather see tough physical play rather than this "don't touch me" crap that we currently have. I'm not just talking about the jockeying for position under the rim. That is STILL a physical war in the NBA that is virtually never called. A streaking ball handler coming through the lane however will almost always draw a foul when the opposing big even waves at them.

The bigs are so nerfed in the NBA it's ridiculous. They don't even have their own All Star position, yet the skillset of a center is so different.


The 3 second rule doesn't prevent bigs from protecting the paint, but they do need to be able to move their feet fast enough. Do we need to change the rules to make the game easier for slow-lumbering bigs who's primary talent are that they're really tall or heavy?

I love the idea of eliminating rules and simplifying the game whenever possible, but after legalizing zone defenses this does not seem like a good idea for the NBA.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#58 » by BodieB » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:14 pm

CoachD wrote:
BodieB wrote:The NBA is supposed to consist of the greatest athletes in the world. Adopting rules that allow 40 year old unathletic players like Scola decide a game would undermine that.


You're clearly not getting it.

This does NOTHING to diminish the need for a center to be athletic... it would put EMPHASIS on that fact. Stepping out to protect against shooting bigs and recovering to block weakside layups is GREAT basketball

Adopting FIBA rules while maintaining NBA court and quarter length completely mitigates any advantages the FIBA games have. Too many of you are not being realistic about it.
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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#59 » by DoItALL9 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:16 pm

So you'd rather have some player grab the Kawhi shot (vs Philly for the series) off the rim than the multiple-bounce, dramatic finish?

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Re: Adopt the FIBA rules 

Post#60 » by zimpy27 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:21 pm

NBA made their rules because fans like driving dunks. You get more driving dunks in the NBA.
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