Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda

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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#21 » by leolozon » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

HotelVitale wrote:I'm a strong 'superstar call' skeptic--always seems to me that superstars know how to draw fouls (a big reason why they're superstars) and that at most the officials maybe keep a closer eye on them since they're so often fouled. I also think we pay way more attention when a bad call is made that favors Harden, Wade, etc because we're looking to confirm the 'star call' narrative, while we brush aside bad calls that benefit Thomas Bryant or Aron Baynes or Darren Collison or whoever because we don't have anything we're looking for with them.

Beyond that the main reason I'm skeptical is that the league actually telling refs 'you must call more fouls to pad star stats' would require a big conspiracy that would 100% inevitably come out, and the backlash from it would be more damaging than the benefit of stars getting an extra ppg or 2. Seems like a losing strategy and I strongly doubt an image conscious league would make that calculation.


While there may be some superstar calls, it's certainly not a conspiracy. It would just be about refs having a bias.

But those superstars calls are overrated in my opinion. Calls have more to do with style of play or even shot attempts and usage rate, than being a superstar. Is Curry not a superstar compared to Trae Young? Well, yeah, but he doesn't create a lot of contact so :

Curry: 19.4 FGA, 30.4 USG%, 4.2 FTA
Trae : 15.5 FGA, 28.4 USG%, 5.1 FTA

Lebron plays a similar position as Ingram and Gallinari and he's the biggest star in the NBA. But he's shooting less FTs than he should compared to them if you're looking at their FGA and USG%.

Lebron : 19.9 FGA, 31.6 USG%, 7.6 FGA (6.5 FTA last year with similar FGA)
Gallo : 13.0 FGA, 23.8 USG%, 6.0 FTA
Ingram : 14.0 FGA, 23.2 USG%, 5.6 FTA

It's more complicated than that, but I think it would be hard to prove superstar treatment when it comes to fouls.

Stars also generally don't guard the best offensive player from the other team, so it's normal that they average less fouls.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#22 » by JayMKE » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

Not a charge, too many of you weirdos hate Giannis or really any good player not on your team.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#23 » by JN61 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 pm

Play he's speaking about was clear foul under both rules, but it's clear that NBA has very biased way of reffing games to favor stars and it has been gone for long time. Most people who have done some ref work see it.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#24 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:00 pm

raptor jesus wrote:NBA officiating does have some annoying quirks - superstar calls, swallowing whistles down the stretch, etc. But when you watch other basketball - NCAA, FIBA - you realize how good they are, relatively speaking.


NCAA refs are abysmal to the point where I barely watch games outside of the tournament (and even there it's painful).

NCAA refs basically allow any top/elite team to foul non-stop in the 2nd half anytime they are in danger of being upset.

Someone did a study on the home/away impact on refs in the Big 10 and it was insane.... teams got called for like twice as many fouls on the road.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#25 » by LKN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:02 pm

leolozon wrote:
HotelVitale wrote:I'm a strong 'superstar call' skeptic--always seems to me that superstars know how to draw fouls (a big reason why they're superstars) and that at most the officials maybe keep a closer eye on them since they're so often fouled. I also think we pay way more attention when a bad call is made that favors Harden, Wade, etc because we're looking to confirm the 'star call' narrative, while we brush aside bad calls that benefit Thomas Bryant or Aron Baynes or Darren Collison or whoever because we don't have anything we're looking for with them.

Beyond that the main reason I'm skeptical is that the league actually telling refs 'you must call more fouls to pad star stats' would require a big conspiracy that would 100% inevitably come out, and the backlash from it would be more damaging than the benefit of stars getting an extra ppg or 2. Seems like a losing strategy and I strongly doubt an image conscious league would make that calculation.


While there may be some superstar calls, it's certainly not a conspiracy. It would just be about refs having a bias.

But those superstars calls are overrated in my opinion. Calls have more to do with style of play or even shot attempts and usage rate, than being a superstar. Is Curry not a superstar compared to Trae Young? Well, yeah, but he doesn't create a lot of contact so :

Curry: 19.4 FGA, 30.4 USG%, 4.2 FTA
Trae : 15.5 FGA, 28.4 USG%, 5.1 FTA

Lebron plays a similar position as Ingram and Gallinari and he's the biggest star in the NBA. But he's shooting less FTs than he should compared to them if you're looking at their FGA and USG%.

Lebron : 19.9 FGA, 31.6 USG%, 7.6 FGA (6.5 FTA last year with similar FGA)
Gallo : 13.0 FGA, 23.8 USG%, 6.0 FTA
Ingram : 14.0 FGA, 23.2 USG%, 5.6 FTA

It's more complicated than that, but I think it would be hard to prove superstar treatment when it comes to fouls.

Stars also generally don't guard the best offensive player from the other team, so it's normal that they average less fouls.


My theory on Lebron is that the refs at some point years ago basically decided to allow him to stiff arm and bowl guys over and in exchange don't reward him with that many FTs. Honestly it's probably worked out in his favor since he's a mediocre FT shooter and a phenomenal finisher.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#26 » by Dominater » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:05 pm

AbeVigodaLive wrote:- 1st I saw that play... yeah. It's a bad call. Some of the worst calls in sports have happened in international competitions, and on grander stages than the qualification round of FIBA.

- As for NBA officiating, "superstar treatment" has been a hot-button issue for literally decades. At least the league no longer employs a guy fixing games for the mob (that we know of)... so progress!

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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#27 » by RCM88x » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:08 pm

Good, calling ticky tack fouls ruins the game. The NBA can make their own rules to fit whatever they want as long as their consistent. Are they always consistent... Probably not but they are more often than not.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#28 » by AbeVigodaLive » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:11 pm

Dominater wrote:
AbeVigodaLive wrote:- 1st I saw that play... yeah. It's a bad call. Some of the worst calls in sports have happened in international competitions, and on grander stages than the qualification round of FIBA.

- As for NBA officiating, "superstar treatment" has been a hot-button issue for literally decades. At least the league no longer employs a guy fixing games for the mob (that we know of)... so progress!

Was Scott foster fired?




Pssst... David Stern declared that we should forever assume that it was an isolated act from a rogue official!!!
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#29 » by CoachD » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:19 pm

By FIBA rules... that's an offensive foul. The left shoulder drops, and because it's the inside shoulder, isn't considered part of a natural gather, but is an attempt to dislodge.

The defensive player has established their position and by rule isn't required to be motionless to be established. He can still be moving.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#30 » by Johnny Bball » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:32 pm

That's not just a no call, that's a blocking foul, even in FIBA. He's dancing the entire time right?
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#31 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:34 pm

The Real Dalic wrote:Lol at the use of the " for stars. You're going to have to get over the fact that Giannis is one of the best players in the WORLD, maybe the best. With or without superstar calls.


He sure wasn't anything remotely approaching the best player at the 2019 FIBA World Cup, without those superstar calls.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#32 » by The Real Dalic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:38 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
The Real Dalic wrote:Lol at the use of the " for stars. You're going to have to get over the fact that Giannis is one of the best players in the WORLD, maybe the best. With or without superstar calls.


He sure wasn't anything remotely approaching the best player at the 2019 FIBA World Cup, without those superstar calls.

Cool, give him the Bucks roster in the tournament and lets see how he does. Not the bums he had to play with.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#33 » by NjtoBk201 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:42 pm

so_bored wrote:People need to realize NBA is no longer a genuine sport. It's an entertainment show now. There are simply too much money involved now from both league and players perspective to change that. It's really unfortunate, but it is what it is.


No one needs to "realize" that because you cant prove that. Its just your opinion nothing more than that.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#34 » by nedleeds » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:43 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:He probably only said this because it isn't during the NBA season. If he said it during the NBA season, he probably would get an enormous fine.

https://clutchpoints.com/fiba-world-cup-news-tomas-satoransky-reacts-to-giannis-antetokounmpo-fouling-out/

Tomas Satoransky reacts to Giannis Antetokounmpo fouling out

“In Europe, they’d probably call it,” Satoransky told Tim Reynolds of the Associated Press. “In the NBA, they wouldn’t call it, obviously, because they protect stars.”



So...are you saying Giannis without specifically “NBA rules” would be an average player? Good player? Same player? Which One? What about Curry or Durant or Brown or Davis or Kawhi or Embiid or Harden?


If they called travelling or palming Giannis couldn't get past half-court.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#35 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:58 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:That's not just a no call, that's a blocking foul, even in FIBA. He's dancing the entire time right?


It's an offensive foul under FIBA rules, because Giannis lowered his shoulder into the defender and it wasn't a basketball move, but rather an attempt to gain space into the defender's position. The defensive player does not need to be stopped moving if the offensive player initiates the contact with a lowered shoulder like that.

This is how you see the glaring difference. How the NBA makes that a defensive foul, because in that way, it rewards players for wildly throwing their bodies into defenders. In the NBA judging the calls like that, it promotes, creates, and gives incentives for players to do that over and over, rather than to attempt real basketball moves.

That then leads to these same players getting that call over and over and over, what the NBA calls "superstar calls".

Giannis gets that call in the NBA - OK. But he's spent years and years (more than in the NBA) playing under FIBA rules, and he knows you can't do that.

In EuroLeague for example, that might be a no call 2 out of 10 times, and it's a charge 8 out of 10 times. It's certainly not a foul on the defense. That's what Satoransky is talking about.

The Real Dalic wrote:Cool, give him the Bucks roster in the tournament and lets see how he does. Not the bums he had to play with.


The Bucks players on Team USA didn't fare that well in the tournament either. Looks like the Bucks best players just aren't that great without NBA rules and reffing.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#36 » by The Real Dalic » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:11 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:That's not just a no call, that's a blocking foul, even in FIBA. He's dancing the entire time right?


It's an offensive foul under FIBA rules, because Giannis lowered his shoulder into the defender and it wasn't a basketball move, but rather an attempt to gain space into the defender's position. The defensive player does not need to be stopped moving if the offensive player initiates the contract with a lowered shoulder like that.

This is how you see the glaring difference. How the NBA makes that a defensive foul, because in that way, it rewards players for wildly throwing their bodies into defenders. In the NBA judging the calls like that, it promotes, creates, and gives incentives players to do that over and over, rather than to attempt real basketball moves.

That then leads to these same players getting that call over and over and over, what the NBA calls "superstar calls".

Giannis gets that call in the NBA - OK. But he's spent years and years (more than in the NBA) playing under FIBA rules, and he knows you can't do that.

In EuroLeague for example, that might be a no call 2 out of 10 times, and it's a charge 8 out of 10 times. It's certainly not a foul on the defense. That's what Satoransky is talking about.

The Real Dalic wrote:Cool, give him the Bucks roster in the tournament and lets see how he does. Not the bums he had to play with.


The Bucks players on Team USA didn't fare that well in the tournament either. Looks like the Bucks best players just aren't that great without NBA rules and reffing.

Giannis works best with his teammates on the Bucks and they really work well with him. You're downplaying chemistry to keep pushing your agenda. Basketball is a team sport, one man can only do so much. Unfortunately, Giannis only had bums around him on his team, meaning the defense could do whatever they wanted to him.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#37 » by contestedlayups » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:29 pm

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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#38 » by Pumpkin17 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:32 pm

Strategy:
-Step 1,downplay NBA and Antetokounmpo
-Step 2, Vassilis Spanoulis is the real Michael Jordan

Rinse and repeat.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#39 » by floppymoose » Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:48 pm

HotelVitale wrote:I'm a strong 'superstar call' skeptic

Been watching NBA since 2001. The superstar call is real but overrated. Fans exaggerate how many there are.

Having said that, Kobe was the King of superstar calls.
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Re: Tomas Satoransky States The Truth About The NBA And Its Reffing Agenda 

Post#40 » by LuDux1 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:51 pm

Let's not forget that referees in WC are replacement referees

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