Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz?

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Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#1 » by kio80 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:22 pm

Seeing how well Gobert and Ingles played in Recent games, and the addition of Conley, is Mitchell as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Jazz roster.


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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#2 » by Gooner » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:24 pm

He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#3 » by TheNG » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:27 pm

Asking this question is missing the essence of the current Jazz team.
They have a bunch of players which play together as a team.They don't play like a bunch of individuals like many other teams.
That partly what made all three players you mentioned be great in this world cup.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#4 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:30 pm

Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#5 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:31 pm

For the Jazz to win they need Mitchell to be their best player, you're not winning a title with Gobert or Conley as your top guy, he is the blue chipper on that roster.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#6 » by kio80 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:35 pm

KqWIN wrote:Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.


We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#7 » by Bum Adebayo » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:37 pm

Seeing how well Embiid and Jimmy played in playoffs, and the addition of Horford combined with the increased role Harris will have, is Simmons as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Sixers roster.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#8 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:41 pm

kio80 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.


We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Mitchell is not really ball dominant guard, and the Jazz are notorious for their egalitarian offense. Mitchell shoots a ton because there have been zero other players who can create their own shot. Ingles has already been doing a ton of ball handling with the Jazz, too much. Mitchell's offensive load was too much, and the same was true for Ingles. Adding in Conley and Bogdanovic puts everyone in more natural roles. Everyone is good with and without the ball, which is how the system is supposed to work.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#9 » by kio80 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:43 pm

Bum Adebayo wrote:Seeing how well Embiid and Jimmy played in playoffs, and the addition of Horford combined with the increased role Harris will have, is Simmons as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Sixers roster.


Probably, plz stay on topic though thanks.


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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#10 » by SwatLakeCity527 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:43 pm

kio80 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.


We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Ingles initiated the offense quite a bit last year. He is really crafty. He does have limits, though. Let's not get carried away saying he is better than Mitchell. Mitchell has shown a lot of playmaking in this tournament as well, and he has proven he can carry a team on his back.

I would say Gobert, Conley, and Mitchell are all in the same tier, and then Ingles is right below.

It's also great to think of what Bojan will do this year. We will have 4 starters that an all initiate the offense if needed. Exciting year for the Jazz.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#11 » by sfernald » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:50 pm

He’s as important as JR Smith was to those Cavs teams... Every team needs a chucker!
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#12 » by SwatLakeCity527 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:56 pm

KqWIN wrote:
kio80 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.


We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Mitchell is not really ball dominant guard, and the Jazz are notorious for their egalitarian offense. Mitchell shoots a ton because there have been zero other players who can create their own shot. Ingles has already been doing a ton of ball handling with the Jazz, too much. Mitchell's offensive load was too much, and the same was true for Ingles. Adding in Conley and Bogdanovic puts everyone in more natural roles. Everyone is good with and without the ball, which is how the system is supposed to work.


This. I couldn't say it better.

Edit: people think that Donovan is a ball-dominant player because of his shot volume. What they don't get is that he takes the majority of his shots within the offense. He shoots when he is open, and he makes his own shot when no one else can get open.

It's usually pretty obvious who does and doesn't watch the games.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#13 » by stitches » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:57 pm

kio80 wrote:Seeing how well Gobert and Ingles played in Recent games, and the addition of Conley, is Mitchell as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Jazz roster.


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Mitchell is the most important player for this team. Notice I didn't say he's the best. Gobert is clearly the best player and Conley so far has been better than Mitchell too. But we do know what we have with them to a large degree. They raise the floor of this team tremendously as long as they are healthy. Mitchell has something else though... he has yet uncertain ceiling. He has room to grow and offensively he's been carrying horribly fitting offensively team for his first 2 years in the NBA. He's the player who will determine how far we will go going forward. If he gets in the all-NBA teams discussions the Jazz will be really REALLY REALLY good. If he gets in the top 5-10 range the Jazz will be legit title contenders. Donovan Mitchell will determine this team's ceiling. This is why I think he's the most important player on the team... and he has the potential to become the best player on the team too.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#14 » by Forte IV » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:00 pm

A fully healthy Conley is better than Donovan. We need to stop thinking scoring numbers make a player the best player on the team
If you want a good laugh, read this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1765067
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#15 » by DreamTeam09 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:01 pm

He's the 1dt best player on that team. Scoring is way more important in the NBA and scoring is easier in the NBA while being a defensive juggernaut is way harder to do in the NBA, although Gobert is
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#16 » by FlatearthZorro » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:03 pm

Gooner wrote:He is the best, someone needs to carry a scoring load.


A lots of guys in the league can score 20 on.400 from the field.
Good assessment:

PLO wrote:Tatum played OK - took advantage of a few mismatches - decent on the defensive end. He is what we thought he was going into the season - a technically very proficient player operating close to his career ceiling as a rookie.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#17 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:04 pm

stitches wrote:
kio80 wrote:Seeing how well Gobert and Ingles played in Recent games, and the addition of Conley, is Mitchell as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Jazz roster.


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Mitchell is the most important player for this team. Notice I didn't say he's the best. Gobert is clearly the best player and Conley so far has been better than Mitchell too. But we do know what we have with them to a large degree. They raise the floor of this team tremendously as long as they are healthy. Mitchell has something else though... he has yet uncertain ceiling. He has room to grow and offensively he's been carrying horribly fitting offensively team for his first 2 years in the NBA. He's the player who will determine how far we will go going forward. If he gets in the all-NBA teams discussions the Jazz will be really REALLY REALLY good. If he gets in the top 5-10 range the Jazz will be legit title contenders. Donovan Mitchell will determine this team's ceiling. This is why I think he's the most important player on the team... and he has the potential to become the best player on the team too.


I agree that Mitchell is the most important player in terms of ceiling. The only path to a finals run is a major breakout season from him. However...I think we've been blessed by Derrick Favors. Naturally, having another top 10 player at your position is going to make you less important because that guy can fill in and sometimes outplay you. Mitchell used to be the guy who was the only guy who could do could perform well in his role. But with Favors out and Conley/Bogey in, Gobert is the guy who can't be replaced.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#18 » by stitches » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:07 pm

KqWIN wrote:
kio80 wrote:
KqWIN wrote:Gobert is clearly the best player on the Jazz. It's not particularly close. Conley has been better than Mitchell, but it's close. With development and age related regression I think it's likely that Mitchell will be better than him this upcoming season. The Jazz are going to need Mitchell to breakout into a top 15 player like Gobert to make a finals run.


We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Mitchell is not really ball dominant guard, and the Jazz are notorious for their egalitarian offense. Mitchell shoots a ton because there have been zero other players who can create their own shot. Ingles has already been doing a ton of ball handling with the Jazz, too much. Mitchell's offensive load was too much, and the same was true for Ingles. Adding in Conley and Bogdanovic puts everyone in more natural roles. Everyone is good with and without the ball, which is how the system is supposed to work.


Yeah, this is a thing that people who don't watch the Jazz often get wrong pretty regularly. Mitchell is very far from a ball dominant guard. The offensive initiation is spread out between all the ballhandlers. Just an example, he's nowhere near as ball dominant as Westbrook or Harden. He moves without the ball a lot, runs through screens trying to get open, or get the ball on the move, etc. The Jazz are the team that runs the least isos in the entire league, but he ends up with pretty high usage simply because there was literally noone on the entire roster who was even average at creating his own shot last year and he had to take on huge majority of those broken possessions.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#19 » by KqWIN » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:14 pm

stitches wrote:
KqWIN wrote:
kio80 wrote:
We all hope Mitchell to take that extra leap next season.
Just realizing from this recent FIBA tournament, Ingles is a much better playmaker and leader than I thought he was, if he was given more of an opportunity to take the lead along with Conley.... Mitchell is probably the best scorer, but according to the current Jazz roster, is a score first, high usage ball dominate guard a good fit?


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Mitchell is not really ball dominant guard, and the Jazz are notorious for their egalitarian offense. Mitchell shoots a ton because there have been zero other players who can create their own shot. Ingles has already been doing a ton of ball handling with the Jazz, too much. Mitchell's offensive load was too much, and the same was true for Ingles. Adding in Conley and Bogdanovic puts everyone in more natural roles. Everyone is good with and without the ball, which is how the system is supposed to work.


Yeah, this is a thing that people who don't watch the Jazz often get wrong pretty regularly. Mitchell is very far from a ball dominant guard. The offensive initiation is spread out between all the ballhandlers. Just an example, he's nowhere near as ball dominant as Westbrook or Harden. He moves without the ball a lot, runs through screens trying to get open, or get the ball on the move, etc. The Jazz are the team that runs the least isos in the entire league, but he ends up with pretty high usage simply because there was literally noone on the entire roster who was even average at creating his own shot last year and he had to take on huge majority of those broken possessions.


I think you could see that with his team USA play. Mitchell was the number one usage guy on this team based on NBA play. Until his offensive explosion today, he was 8th on the team in usage. When there are other players who want to shoot, his usage is going to drop because he'll keep moving the ball. This was the only game he really got loose and was attacking aggressively...he had a good reason though.
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Re: Is Mitchell the 3rd or 4th best player in Jazz? 

Post#20 » by stitches » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:17 pm

KqWIN wrote:
stitches wrote:
kio80 wrote:Seeing how well Gobert and Ingles played in Recent games, and the addition of Conley, is Mitchell as important as we thought he was for the team?
I’d say he’s probably the 3rd or 4th most important player in the currently Jazz roster.


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Mitchell is the most important player for this team. Notice I didn't say he's the best. Gobert is clearly the best player and Conley so far has been better than Mitchell too. But we do know what we have with them to a large degree. They raise the floor of this team tremendously as long as they are healthy. Mitchell has something else though... he has yet uncertain ceiling. He has room to grow and offensively he's been carrying horribly fitting offensively team for his first 2 years in the NBA. He's the player who will determine how far we will go going forward. If he gets in the all-NBA teams discussions the Jazz will be really REALLY REALLY good. If he gets in the top 5-10 range the Jazz will be legit title contenders. Donovan Mitchell will determine this team's ceiling. This is why I think he's the most important player on the team... and he has the potential to become the best player on the team too.


I agree that Mitchell is the most important player in terms of ceiling. The only path to a finals run is a major breakout season from him. However...I think we've been blessed by Derrick Favors. Naturally, having another top 10 player at your position is going to make you less important because that guy can fill in and sometimes outplay you. Mitchell used to be the guy who was the only guy who could do could perform well in his role. But with Favors out and Conley/Bogey in, Gobert is the guy who can't be replaced.

Oh that's without a question. If Gobert gets injured we are ****. There's no two ways about it. I'm talking about this team at full strength without injuries. I don't think we are good enough to weather the storm of losing any of Gobert, Mitchell, Conley and still be any sort of contenders and I do think with this team we should be talking about the ceiling more than about the floor... that's exactly what we've been calling for, right? Like... both me and you and Inigo... this should be all about the ceiling in the ideal case.

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