OT: 18 year anniversary of 9/11. Where were you?

[batmana]

I was a freshman in college. I had just got home from lectures (it was afternoon in Europe) and I was chilling in my room. My great-aunt came in and told me she heard about a plane hitting a tower in the USA on the radio. Initially I didn't think too much of it (I was still a naive kid) but I still turned on CNN. Watched the second plane hit the second tower live. Watched hours of the horror that followed. I will never forget that day and I don't think I can recall any other event where I could immediately tell you what I was doing at the time.

I just want to pay my respect to all the victims and to everyone who was inflicted by this horrendous act of terrorism. It was a shocking moment that we need to remember and we need to learn to accept and live with each other's differences.

[CaptainFanchini]

Here was early afternoon and I was doing panoramic photos with my new brand new digicam from a castle above my homevalley.

About 3:30pm, a friend phoned me, telling to run to house because someone hit the Twin towers with 2 airplanes.

Of course at the moment I told him "fxxx off" and laughin "nice try" ... then I realized the horrific reality ...

[Froob]

4th grade, teacher got us together and told us about it. Didn't really understand it at the time.

[HanzGruber]

6th grade music class 30 min away from downtown dc.

Side note that teacher was later convicted of being a ped0

[MoneyTalks41890]

6th grade math class. They turned the TV on in class. I don't remember much about the immediate aftermath, but I remember when the teacher broke the news.

[SOdisciple]

My mom woke me up before school (I was in 5th grade) and I remember staring at the TV in disbelief. At school we had a classroom meeting about the events that were happening. I remember a girl raised her hand and asked the teacher, "Does this mean war?" "Maybe" my teacher replied.

Chilling.

[TerryTate]

I had moved away from NY, my home. Was watching from Atlanta. Wondering if any of my neighbors were burning alive. Ended up being 2 people I knew out of the 3,000+.

9/11 came from humans, well educated, well off humans convinced of a belief that America's way of life and in general western freedom is wrong. And convinced unquestionable that their worldview and belief in the afterlife was correct. They believe that freedom is wrong. That women being able to drive is wrong. That the freedom to burn a bible is wrong. That the freedom to smoke some ribs and enjoy a beer with somebody you don't agree with is wrong. That the freedom to feel the sun on you skin and enjoy the beach is wrong. That the freedom to live your sex life however you want is wrong. That the freedom to not believe a religious text is wrong.

Bringing up past provocation is a losing argument because it never ends. Tallying a body count is a waste of time as well, because the further back you go the higher the pile goes.

An ideology allowed college educated employed men to murder 3,000 people and themselves that day. We need to fight that ideology everyday, everywhere. People are equal. Women are equal. Homosexuals are equal. Non-believers are equal. Nobody should be subjegated, killed or forcibly converted because they don't believe a 1,300 year old book written by a warlord and his cronies is the word of an omnipotent being.

I don't wanna be that guy on a topic so senstive to Americans, but this sounds like Neo-Con theory at it's best.

[clyde21]

I had moved away from NY, my home. Was watching from Atlanta. Wondering if any of my neighbors were burning alive. Ended up being 2 people I knew out of the 3,000+.

9/11 came from humans, well educated, well off humans convinced of a belief that America's way of life and in general western freedom is wrong. And convinced unquestionable that their worldview and belief in the afterlife was correct. They believe that freedom is wrong. That women being able to drive is wrong. That the freedom to burn a bible is wrong. That the freedom to smoke some ribs and enjoy a beer with somebody you don't agree with is wrong. That the freedom to feel the sun on you skin and enjoy the beach is wrong. That the freedom to live your sex life however you want is wrong. That the freedom to not believe a religious text is wrong.

Bringing up past provocation is a losing argument because it never ends. Tallying a body count is a waste of time as well, because the further back you go the higher the pile goes.

An ideology allowed college educated employed men to murder 3,000 people and themselves that day. We need to fight that ideology everyday, everywhere. People are equal. Women are equal. Homosexuals are equal. Non-believers are equal. Nobody should be subjegated, killed or forcibly converted because they don't believe a 1,300 year old book written by a warlord and his cronies is the word of an omnipotent being.

I don't wanna be that guy on a topic so senstive to Americans, but this sounds like Neo-Con theory at it's best.

**** cringeworthy post...absolutely embarrassing how someone can be so delusioned and devoid of reality.

[TerryTate]

I had moved away from NY, my home. Was watching from Atlanta. Wondering if any of my neighbors were burning alive. Ended up being 2 people I knew out of the 3,000+.

9/11 came from humans, well educated, well off humans convinced of a belief that America's way of life and in general western freedom is wrong. And convinced unquestionable that their worldview and belief in the afterlife was correct. They believe that freedom is wrong. That women being able to drive is wrong. That the freedom to burn a bible is wrong. That the freedom to smoke some ribs and enjoy a beer with somebody you don't agree with is wrong. That the freedom to feel the sun on you skin and enjoy the beach is wrong. That the freedom to live your sex life however you want is wrong. That the freedom to not believe a religious text is wrong.

Bringing up past provocation is a losing argument because it never ends. Tallying a body count is a waste of time as well, because the further back you go the higher the pile goes.

An ideology allowed college educated employed men to murder 3,000 people and themselves that day. We need to fight that ideology everyday, everywhere. People are equal. Women are equal. Homosexuals are equal. Non-believers are equal. Nobody should be subjegated, killed or forcibly converted because they don't believe a 1,300 year old book written by a warlord and his cronies is the word of an omnipotent being.

I don't wanna be that guy on a topic so senstive to Americans, but this sounds like Neo-Con theory at it's best.

**** cringeworthy post...absolutely embarrassing how someone can be so delusioned and devoid of reality.

Cringeworthy, please every post you have cringe worthy. I don't even think know you know what Neo-Con theory is....
Read his the first major paragraph, there is already an "allusion" of a political "enemy" is already set in his mind. His justication is "freedom". I want this "freedom" kool-aid

Whilst I feel sorry for the people who died in 9/11, much of that is a direct result of decades of the US's geopolitcal interference.They spend billions of dollars trying to "save" / "liberate" people or "war or terror aka enemies", when the real people who needs saving is in their own backyard. It's just an excuse for the miltary complex to spend "your taxpayers" money on overpriced weapon that do F all and leave countries in shambles and geopolitcally unstable.

[letsgorockets]

A ninth grade freshman in Houston, woke up to the 2nd building being hit and my mom freaking out. Went to school, only to be sent home a couple hours later after everyone just sat in the cafeteria chatting about the details add they were reported. The thing I'll really remember was being in attendance at WWE Smackdown, live from Houston just days afterwards, the 1st mass gathering since the attacks. There was a palpable sense of unease until the national anthem and a speech from Vince McMahon. After that the energy and buzz that washed over the crowd was electrifying, and not something I'll ever forget.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using RealGM mobile app

[clyde21]

I don't wanna be that guy on a topic so senstive to Americans, but this sounds like Neo-Con theory at it's best.

**** cringeworthy post...absolutely embarrassing how someone can be so delusioned and devoid of reality.

Cringeworthy, please every post you have cringe worthy. I don't even think know you know what Neo-Con theory is....
Read his the first major paragraph, there is already an "allusion" of a political "enemy" is already set in his mind. His justication is "freedom". I want this "freedom" kool-aid

Whilst I feel sorry for the people who died in 9/11, much of that is a direct result of decades of the US's geopolitcal interference.They spend billions of dollars trying to "save" / "liberate" people or "war or terror aka enemies", when the real people who needs saving is in their own backyard. It's just an excuse for the miltary complex to spend "your taxpayers" money on overpriced weapon that do F all and leave countries in shambles and geopolitcally unstable.

I was talking about his post, not yours..

[TerryTate]

**** cringeworthy post...absolutely embarrassing how someone can be so delusioned and devoid of reality.

Cringeworthy, please every post you have cringe worthy. I don't even think know you know what Neo-Con theory is....
Read his the first major paragraph, there is already an "allusion" of a political "enemy" is already set in his mind. His justication is "freedom". I want this "freedom" kool-aid

Whilst I feel sorry for the people who died in 9/11, much of that is a direct result of decades of the US's geopolitcal interference.They spend billions of dollars trying to "save" / "liberate" people or "war or terror aka enemies", when the real people who needs saving is in their own backyard. It's just an excuse for the miltary complex to spend "your taxpayers" money on overpriced weapon that do F all and leave countries in shambles and geopolitcally unstable.

I was talking about his post, not yours..

Well then I apologize

[TheNewEra]

my third grade classroom. unforgettable moment: they say over the intercom 'the school is on lockdown until further notice' then the boy next to me with a huge grin on his face says 'COOL! i bet some guy broke into the school with a gun!'

kid's face is just etched into my memory. wonder how he recalls it.

Similar situation but I believe I was in sixth or seventh grade. School went on lockdown which in the LAUSD usually meant a homeless dude was on campus being a ****. Odd day because I remember the school went on lockdown the day before and school shooters was a topic in class but most brushed it off as a suburban schools issue. Teacher brought in a tv and everyone was sent home

[Clay Davis]

Drones kill indiscriminately, often killing children and non-combatants. In fact, the criteria for being a 'suspected terrorist' is being a male, over 18 years old, and in particular provinces of Afghanistan.

Bin Laden held that his motives for the attacks were largely socio-political -- he was distressed by US military presence in Afghanistan and military support for Israel. The US has and continues to be the largest exporter of terrorism in the world, supporting despotic dictators (Pinochet, Saddam, Saudi regime, military junta of Pakistan) who make reigns of terror their MO when it's convenient.

The War on Terror is an even more ridiculous failure than the War on Drugs and yet people continue doubling down on it. Turns out treating people like targets and not caring about collateral damage isn't the best way to placate them.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using RealGM mobile app

I like how you are blaming the US for supporting Saddam , Saudi and Pakistan but if the US would invade these countries to topple the dictator you would be the first to complain. There is no winning for the US , they can be friendly or not friendly with dictators you'll find a way to turn it against them. Or when they decide to cut ties and not invade a dictatorship they are blamed as well ( Iran) But hey at least you're defending Bin Laden's point of view right ? Bin Laden motives makes sense but drones are bad

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

1. I was talking about bin Laden, not I.S.I.S.. I guarantee I've spent more time reading the Qu'ran and the hadith than you, who probably spent 2 hours reading whatever you found on JihadWatch.org. There's no shortage of scholars who disagree with the conception of jihad that I.S.I.S. has and whose followings dwarf I.S.I.S.'s actual doctrinal adherents (as opposed to those forced by circumstance, since if someone came to your house with an AK-47 and told you they'd kill your family if you didn't fight for them you just might do it too). Fact remains that I.S.I.S. would not have existed if not for the war in Iraq which resulted in not only a power vacuum but the dissemination of U.S.S.R. trained intelligence operatives into a Wild West situation. Anyone who studies I.S.I.S. seriously will tell you that it's managed by the same people that masterminded Saddam's regime. You're also forgetting that the majority of military effort being expended against I.S.I.S. is by Muslims. If Muslims, en masse, love I.S.I.S. why are they risking their lives to fight against them?

Oh, and good job disseminating propaganda as if it's actually factual; you're doing their job for them and are part of the problem.

2. I disagree with interventionism in principle, so yes I'd be the first to complain. The U.S. is under no obligation to extend the military supported by tax-payers to bolster the struggle of foreign populations (which is the motive given. It's actually to benefit small pockets of elites and those in bed with elected leaders). It's sickening that politicians can recite half-baked jingoisms and send the children in our neighbourhoods to fight wars for the benefit of those who are already sapping the lifeblood of the country through corporate welfare and lobbying.

Did you ever hear the story of Pat Tillman? In the days following 9/11 he gave up a 3.6 million dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals and enlisted in the army, thinking he was defending freedom, and was sent on a tour in Iraq and Afghanistan. Over time he became more and more disillusioned with the military presence, and started to wonder for whose benefit it was. It led him to think that maybe people like Noam Chomsky are right -- maybe the U.S. is controlled by corporations and is corrupt from the inside out? He came to believe that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and kept a journal, even planning to meet Noam Chomsky once his tour was over. Only, he never got to come home. He was killed by friendly fire. When his death was reported the military was very careful not to leak the details of his death to the public or to Pat's family, lest it undermine national sentiment. They also burned his journal. Then politicians came to his funeral and offered half-assed condolences and crocodile tears while not wavering in support for the wasteful war he disagreed with and literally denied him his personhood to continue. The American military industrial complex is a plague on humanity and has contributed to, supported, and engaged in more atrocities than Americans care to admit. That's not even to mention how much terrorism it has caused.

[clyde21]

'defending our freedom'

what a **** farce that has been...anyone that used and/or has been using 9/11 to justify war, invasion and genocide should be absolutely ashamed of themselves and you're only doing the victims of 9/11 a disservice by leveraging their deaths this way.

Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Syria had nothing to do with 9/11. Libya, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen...none of them had anything **** to do with 9/11. **** off.

in fact, we're currently funding and sponsoring the countries/groups that actually did orchestrate 9/11, while blaming it on someone else. what a tremendous propaganda campaign that has been. get your head out of the sand and educate yourself.

[Nazrmohamed]

I like how you are blaming the US for supporting Saddam , Saudi and Pakistan but if the US would invade these countries to topple the dictator you would be the first to complain. There is no winning for the US , they can be friendly or not friendly with dictators you'll find a way to turn it against them. Or when they decide to cut ties and not invade a dictatorship they are blamed as well ( Iran) But hey at least you're defending Bin Laden's point of view right ? Bin Laden motives makes sense but drones are bad

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

1. I was talking about bin Laden, not I.S.I.S.. I guarantee I've spent more time reading the Qu'ran and the hadith than you, who probably spent 2 hours reading whatever you found on JihadWatch.org. There's no shortage of scholars who disagree with the conception of jihad that I.S.I.S. has and whose followings dwarf I.S.I.S.'s actual doctrinal adherents (as opposed to those forced by circumstance, since if someone came to your house with an AK-47 and told you they'd kill your family if you didn't fight for them you just might do it too). Fact remains that I.S.I.S. would not have existed if not for the war in Iraq which resulted in not only a power vacuum but the dissemination of U.S.S.R. trained intelligence operatives into a Wild West situation. Anyone who studies I.S.I.S. seriously will tell you that it's managed by the same people that masterminded Saddam's regime. You're also forgetting that the majority of military effort being expended against I.S.I.S. is by Muslims. If Muslims, en masse, love I.S.I.S. why are they risking their lives to fight against them?

Oh, and good job disseminating propaganda as if it's actually factual; you're doing their job for them and are part of the problem.

2. I disagree with interventionism in principle, so yes I'd be the first to complain. The U.S. is under no obligation to extend the military supported by tax-payers to bolster the struggle of foreign populations (which is the motive given. It's actually to benefit small pockets of elites and those in bed with elected leaders). It's sickening that politicians can recite half-baked jingoisms and send the children in our neighbourhoods to fight wars for the benefit of those who are already sapping the lifeblood of the country through corporate welfare and lobbying.

Did you ever hear the story of Pat Tillman? In the days following 9/11 he gave up a 3.6 million dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals and enlisted in the army, thinking he was defending freedom, and was sent on a tour in Iraq and Afghanistan. Over time he became more and more disillusioned with the military presence, and started to wonder for whose benefit it was. It led him to think that maybe people like Noam Chomsky are right -- maybe the U.S. is controlled by corporations and is corrupt from the inside out? He came to believe that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and kept a journal, even planning to meet Noam Chomsky once his tour was over. Only, he never got to come home. He was killed by friendly fire. When his death was reported the military was very careful not to leak the details of his death to the public or to Pat's family, lest it undermine national sentiment. They also burned his journal. Then politicians came to his funeral and offered half-assed condolences and crocodile tears while not wavering in support for the wasteful war he disagreed with and literally denied him his personhood to continue. The American military industrial complex is a plague on humanity and has contributed to, supported, and engaged in more atrocities than Americans care to admit. That's not even to mention how much terrorism it has caused.

It's very possible that you are correct but at the end of the day congratulations. You've figured out that empires are ruthless. Who wouldve thought? There may be a time when we have been overtaken and you can have this opinion about the empire that takes our place.


But not today. Today you'll have to bitch about the empire you live in.

[Marcus]

at work in San Diego, on a Naval Warship. We all stopped in shock.

[Eric Millegan]

27 years old. In Manhattan. Terrified and in shocked.

[Clay Davis]

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

1. I was talking about bin Laden, not I.S.I.S.. I guarantee I've spent more time reading the Qu'ran and the hadith than you, who probably spent 2 hours reading whatever you found on JihadWatch.org. There's no shortage of scholars who disagree with the conception of jihad that I.S.I.S. has and whose followings dwarf I.S.I.S.'s actual doctrinal adherents (as opposed to those forced by circumstance, since if someone came to your house with an AK-47 and told you they'd kill your family if you didn't fight for them you just might do it too). Fact remains that I.S.I.S. would not have existed if not for the war in Iraq which resulted in not only a power vacuum but the dissemination of U.S.S.R. trained intelligence operatives into a Wild West situation. Anyone who studies I.S.I.S. seriously will tell you that it's managed by the same people that masterminded Saddam's regime. You're also forgetting that the majority of military effort being expended against I.S.I.S. is by Muslims. If Muslims, en masse, love I.S.I.S. why are they risking their lives to fight against them?

Oh, and good job disseminating propaganda as if it's actually factual; you're doing their job for them and are part of the problem.

2. I disagree with interventionism in principle, so yes I'd be the first to complain. The U.S. is under no obligation to extend the military supported by tax-payers to bolster the struggle of foreign populations (which is the motive given. It's actually to benefit small pockets of elites and those in bed with elected leaders). It's sickening that politicians can recite half-baked jingoisms and send the children in our neighbourhoods to fight wars for the benefit of those who are already sapping the lifeblood of the country through corporate welfare and lobbying.

Did you ever hear the story of Pat Tillman? In the days following 9/11 he gave up a 3.6 million dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals and enlisted in the army, thinking he was defending freedom, and was sent on a tour in Iraq and Afghanistan. Over time he became more and more disillusioned with the military presence, and started to wonder for whose benefit it was. It led him to think that maybe people like Noam Chomsky are right -- maybe the U.S. is controlled by corporations and is corrupt from the inside out? He came to believe that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and kept a journal, even planning to meet Noam Chomsky once his tour was over. Only, he never got to come home. He was killed by friendly fire. When his death was reported the military was very careful not to leak the details of his death to the public or to Pat's family, lest it undermine national sentiment. They also burned his journal. Then politicians came to his funeral and offered half-assed condolences and crocodile tears while not wavering in support for the wasteful war he disagreed with and literally denied him his personhood to continue. The American military industrial complex is a plague on humanity and has contributed to, supported, and engaged in more atrocities than Americans care to admit. That's not even to mention how much terrorism it has caused.

It's very possible that you are correct but at the end of the day congratulations. You've figured out that empires are ruthless. Who wouldve thought? There may be a time when we have been overtaken and you can have this opinion about the empire that takes our place.


But not today. Today you'll have to bitch about the empire you live in.

Truth be told, I think governments as a whole tend towards corruption but that democracy is a step in the right direction; at least the tyranny of a democratic government can be held responsible to the people who give it power and whose name it acts in (not that I believe in collective punishment, since it's often meted out without actually assessing to what extent the government controls the people and not the other way around). I presume that I won't be in a position to criticize the hypothetical empire that replaces the current one, since I imagine it to be even more repressive, but as a stakeholder in the current empire (whose leaders my neighbours and I elected and whose constitution guarantees my rights, freedoms, and responsibilities) I wouldn't be doing my duty as a citizen if I weren't critical -- even if it's futile.

I understand why people digest and internalize propaganda, and I feel bad for them for being the passive vessels that they are; I don't think that they deserve to suffer for it and, to me, it's tragic when they choose to.

Anyways, I'm Canadian, and while Canada, in particular has committed some extremely grievous crimes (the ones that come to mind are domestic) and, in general, has been an accomplice to many (like our funny-sock wearing P.M. who portrays himself as a bleeding heart but has no problem benefiting from our relationship with Saudi Arabia) it isn't close to being the nauseating entity that the U.S. is.

[clyde21]

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

1. I was talking about bin Laden, not I.S.I.S.. I guarantee I've spent more time reading the Qu'ran and the hadith than you, who probably spent 2 hours reading whatever you found on JihadWatch.org. There's no shortage of scholars who disagree with the conception of jihad that I.S.I.S. has and whose followings dwarf I.S.I.S.'s actual doctrinal adherents (as opposed to those forced by circumstance, since if someone came to your house with an AK-47 and told you they'd kill your family if you didn't fight for them you just might do it too). Fact remains that I.S.I.S. would not have existed if not for the war in Iraq which resulted in not only a power vacuum but the dissemination of U.S.S.R. trained intelligence operatives into a Wild West situation. Anyone who studies I.S.I.S. seriously will tell you that it's managed by the same people that masterminded Saddam's regime. You're also forgetting that the majority of military effort being expended against I.S.I.S. is by Muslims. If Muslims, en masse, love I.S.I.S. why are they risking their lives to fight against them?

Oh, and good job disseminating propaganda as if it's actually factual; you're doing their job for them and are part of the problem.

2. I disagree with interventionism in principle, so yes I'd be the first to complain. The U.S. is under no obligation to extend the military supported by tax-payers to bolster the struggle of foreign populations (which is the motive given. It's actually to benefit small pockets of elites and those in bed with elected leaders). It's sickening that politicians can recite half-baked jingoisms and send the children in our neighbourhoods to fight wars for the benefit of those who are already sapping the lifeblood of the country through corporate welfare and lobbying.

Did you ever hear the story of Pat Tillman? In the days following 9/11 he gave up a 3.6 million dollar contract with the Arizona Cardinals and enlisted in the army, thinking he was defending freedom, and was sent on a tour in Iraq and Afghanistan. Over time he became more and more disillusioned with the military presence, and started to wonder for whose benefit it was. It led him to think that maybe people like Noam Chomsky are right -- maybe the U.S. is controlled by corporations and is corrupt from the inside out? He came to believe that the invasion of Iraq was illegal and kept a journal, even planning to meet Noam Chomsky once his tour was over. Only, he never got to come home. He was killed by friendly fire. When his death was reported the military was very careful not to leak the details of his death to the public or to Pat's family, lest it undermine national sentiment. They also burned his journal. Then politicians came to his funeral and offered half-assed condolences and crocodile tears while not wavering in support for the wasteful war he disagreed with and literally denied him his personhood to continue. The American military industrial complex is a plague on humanity and has contributed to, supported, and engaged in more atrocities than Americans care to admit. That's not even to mention how much terrorism it has caused.

It's very possible that you are correct but at the end of the day congratulations. You've figured out that empires are ruthless. Who wouldve thought? There may be a time when we have been overtaken and you can have this opinion about the empire that takes our place.


But not today. Today you'll have to bitch about the empire you live in.

what the **** is your point here? we should just watch the US turn into the single biggest terrorist state on the planet (currently bombing 10 different countries as we speak, bullying about a dozen more with sanctions, while sponsoring 73% of the world's dictators) and not educate ourselves or even talk about it?

yea, **** outta here.