OT: 18 year anniversary of 9/11. Where were you?

[The Rodzilla]

I was up on sep 11th 10.30pm or so watching the late night news and they interrupted for the shot of the first attack, then came back after the 2nd and I watched it all overnight

[rzzzzz]

i was right on Columbia Pike, just down the road from where the Pentagon was struck. we drove vans to a homeless shelter that was about a block away, to transport residents to another facility a couple miles further away. there were all kinds of emergency vehicles just flying up and down the road. i can still picture all that activity like it was yesterday.

[JellosJigglin]

I was at my parents house still on summer break from college. My dad just came to my doorway while I was still sort of waking up and just said,"The world trade centers are GONE". Still in a daze I tried going back to sleep. But I heard the tv on loud and my parents and sister talking. Usually they used to leave for work pretty early, so I couldn't fall back asleep because I wasn't used to hearing all that noise in the morning. So I stumbled into the room where the tv was on and they were just showing the 1st crash with the smoke coming out. I said something like "oh that just looks like a small plane crashed by accident". Then without turning to me, with eyes glued to the tv, someone said something like "No, just watch". Then they showed the 2nd plane and the pile of rubble after the collapse. I sat down without really thinking about it and woke up from my daze pretty quick. We started recording on VHS tapes because we knew the world was about to change forever. I stayed home all day watching tv and seriously contemplated dropping out of college to join the military.

[C-Melo Man]

I was 12 years old in 7th grade. I came home from junior high & saw my mom had on the old-fashioned brown TV in the first living room of two. She was praying immensely for the people who were killed in the buildings & seeing all the smoke fill the air really caught my attention considering that I wasn't paying attention to the news at that age.

[LightTheBeam]

I was in 5th grade, I remember driving to school with my mom cursing and crying. At the time I couldn't really grasp what had happened. Got to school, they turned on the TV and I was shook even as a 5th grader.

[nedleeds]

I like how you are blaming the US for supporting Saddam , Saudi and Pakistan but if the US would invade these countries to topple the dictator you would be the first to complain. There is no winning for the US , they can be friendly or not friendly with dictators you'll find a way to turn it against them. Or when they decide to cut ties and not invade a dictatorship they are blamed as well ( Iran) But hey at least you're defending Bin Laden's point of view right ? Bin Laden motives makes sense but drones are bad

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

<tired trope about how these 3,000 people deserved it and it wasn't because the hijackers were true believers but quit being engineers and sons of lawyers to punish the US for Iraq #1>.

We just see the world differently. If the US had perfect weapons they'd never harm a non-combatant in any of these situations. If Bin Laden, ISIS, Saddam had perfect weapons they'd incinerate every Jew, homosexual and infidel (Shia or Sunni depending on who had the switch) on Earth. That's the difference, you don't care about motive like Chomsky you're infatuated with the esoteric math on body counts.

As far as convincing people about propaganda ... when did I call the ISIS magazine anything other than that? It's literally their newsletter and you don't want people to read what these savages are thinking? How else will people, rational Muslims included, ever understand just how serious these people are if they don't truly understand, believe or care about WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO.

If people like you constantly keep lying about the reason Mohammad Atta incinerated himself and a thousand innocent people how the hell can we fix the problem? The problem is Muslim fanaticism, Muslim irrationality and a total inability to reconcile a dogmatic Muslim way of life with basic Western freedom. Either Islam has it's own modernization or the blood will continue to pour everywhere Muslims and those who live free interact.

[nedleeds]

I had moved away from NY, my home. Was watching from Atlanta. Wondering if any of my neighbors were burning alive. Ended up being 2 people I knew out of the 3,000+.

9/11 came from humans, well educated, well off humans convinced of a belief that America's way of life and in general western freedom is wrong. And convinced unquestionable that their worldview and belief in the afterlife was correct. They believe that freedom is wrong. That women being able to drive is wrong. That the freedom to burn a bible is wrong. That the freedom to smoke some ribs and enjoy a beer with somebody you don't agree with is wrong. That the freedom to feel the sun on you skin and enjoy the beach is wrong. That the freedom to live your sex life however you want is wrong. That the freedom to not believe a religious text is wrong.

Bringing up past provocation is a losing argument because it never ends. Tallying a body count is a waste of time as well, because the further back you go the higher the pile goes.

An ideology allowed college educated employed men to murder 3,000 people and themselves that day. We need to fight that ideology everyday, everywhere. People are equal. Women are equal. Homosexuals are equal. Non-believers are equal. Nobody should be subjegated, killed or forcibly converted because they don't believe a 1,300 year old book written by a warlord and his cronies is the word of an omnipotent being.

I don't wanna be that guy on a topic so senstive to Americans, but this sounds like Neo-Con theory at it's best.

Yes this savage 2 time Obama voting, pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, burning bibles in a Turkey frier neo-con. Love me some Fox news.

[NPZ]

Piece of airplane wreckage found 12 years later. Forgot about this.

Watch on YouTube

[scrabbarista]

Not meant to disrespect the victims from 2001 at all(quite the opposite actually), but we should also take some time to think about 9/11/1973 when Richard Nixon and the CIA prepared and helped carry out the Chilean coup, that basically killed and replaced an elected socialist government with the junta of Augusto Pinochet. The estimated casualties of this coup are estimated to be up to 5000 for just the first few month and suffering and death continued under his reign for the next 17 years.

If we would actually pay tribute to all the casualties that are direct results from western, lets call it by its name, terrorism, we would have a day like this in every month and plenty more.

I'm saying this, because those deaths on 9/11 those are maybe the ones we saw, were we couldn't look away, but they weren't uncalled for. Conspiracy theories aside those deaths were direct result of our aggression and if we take our mourning serious we better are aware and stand against the terrorists among us, those in suits and shiny uniforms, with the drones and carriers.

I know this is pretty rich coming from a German, but you can be sure I'll do what is in my power to stop what happened 3 generations ago, from happening tomorrow.

Everything happens for a reason and those people that were victimized yesterday killed without being guilty, they payed a high price to make us act today.

RIP

Not meant to disrespect the victims from 1973 at all, but terrorism comes from humans. It's not confined to people of any single geographical region, race, faith, or philosophy. Some terrorize for power, some for pleasure, some for money, some from desperation, some to make a point, some from insanity, and some because they believe God will reward them for it. I'm sure there are other reasons I've left out, and I'm sure many act from a mixture of these motives.

Conspiracy theories aside, those deaths were not the direct result of "our" aggression. "We" did not bring the attack upon ourselves, especially those of us who weren't even alive in 1973.

One thing we can agree on is that we should do what we can to keep anything like this from ever happening again.

I had moved away from NY, my home. Was watching from Atlanta. Wondering if any of my neighbors were burning alive. Ended up being 2 people I knew out of the 3,000+.

9/11 came from humans, well educated, well off humans convinced of a belief that America's way of life and in general western freedom is wrong. And convinced unquestionable that their worldview and belief in the afterlife was correct. They believe that freedom is wrong. That women being able to drive is wrong. That the freedom to burn a bible is wrong. That the freedom to smoke some ribs and enjoy a beer with somebody you don't agree with is wrong. That the freedom to feel the sun on you skin and enjoy the beach is wrong. That the freedom to live your sex life however you want is wrong. That the freedom to not believe a religious text is wrong.

Bringing up past provocation is a losing argument because it never ends. Tallying a body count is a waste of time as well, because the further back you go the higher the pile goes.

An ideology allowed college educated employed men to murder 3,000 people and themselves that day. We need to fight that ideology everyday, everywhere. People are equal. Women are equal. Homosexuals are equal. Non-believers are equal. Nobody should be subjegated, killed or forcibly converted because they don't believe a 1,300 year old book written by a warlord and his cronies is the word of an omnipotent being.

I agree. Just you forgot to start off with, "Conspiracy theories aside." That's all.

[clyde21]

Afghanistan is where al-Qaeda was. Our goal after 9-11 was essentially to rock their world and mess with them so that the war they so desperately wanted was fought in their backyard, not ours. The idea that we shouldn't have responded is absurd.

I do agree with you on invading foreign countries. It just doesn't work and it isn't worth it. JFK with Vietnam and Bush with Iraq--just a mess. Targeted attacks with drones based on good intelligence is the way to go, but we have to find and hunt terrorists wherever they are because if we let them go they will attack us. That is something I am sure you and I can agree on.

lol, it's always amazing to me that people are still peddling this Fox News propaganda nonsense 20 years after the fact...absolutely remarkable.

1. Al-Qaeda was never based in Afghanistan. they were funded by Saudia Arabia and were leveraged by Pakistan against the Taliban. The Taliban would've NEVER allowed al-Qaida to set up shop in Afghanistan. Al-Qaida didn't really set foot in Afghanistan until AFTER the US invaded (and ISIS later followed)...because that's what the US does...**** countries up and leave.

2. 9/11 hijackers were primarily Saudi and al-Qaeda themselves were funded by Saudi Wahabi/Salafists...again, absolutely nothing to do with the Afghanistan. So instead of actually attacking the SOURCE, we instead invade a country that has been HISTORICALLY an enemy of al-Qaida.

3. There was a point in time where the US was buddy-buddy with both al-Qaida and the Taliban...funny how perspectives change, right? to America they were considered 'Freedom Fighters' while they were fighting against the Russians...and then became 'terrorists' later on...9/11 was essentially a fallout from that relationship.

4. piggybacking on the last two points, the US didn't go to Afghanistan to find al-Qaida, they went to Afghanistan to control the resources, namely opium which the Taliban had started to remove and burn the fields of at the time

so yea, let's at least get the logistics, history and motivations correct before trying to pass blame around...NONE of these wars had 9/11...they were neo and ziocon wars that leveraged the tragic events of 9/11 to catalyze support for invasions...all based on lies just like the Iraq and Syria and Libyan wars.

I watch MSNBC much more than I ever would Fox News. I think it’s safe to say that we agree to disagree regarding the events after 9-11.

I would like to know what you think America should have done after 9-11. It almost sounds like you want us to apologize to the Islamic terrorists, but I don’t want to put words into your mouth.

Lol...MSNBC is even more warhawking than Fox News...those neoliberal clown cars were legit attacking Trump from the right on Afghanistan and Syria when he said he wanted to leave...they wanted him to stay...the corporatists, warhawks and ziocons have taken deep roots in the establishment of the US regardless of what mainstream channel you're watching.

and I just told you what I wanted the US to do...reading comprehension wanted: go after the people that were actually behind 9/11. you do know who that is right?

[clyde21]

Afghanistan is where al-Qaeda was. Our goal after 9-11 was essentially to rock their world and mess with them so that the war they so desperately wanted was fought in their backyard, not ours. The idea that we shouldn't have responded is absurd.

I do agree with you on invading foreign countries. It just doesn't work and it isn't worth it. JFK with Vietnam and Bush with Iraq--just a mess. Targeted attacks with drones based on good intelligence is the way to go, but we have to find and hunt terrorists wherever they are because if we let them go they will attack us. That is something I am sure you and I can agree on.

Correction it WAS NOT JFK, it was LBJ after JFK was assasinated. JFK was against the Vietnam war. Additionally, the 2nd Gulf of Tonkin incident, which was the fire to ignite the US into the Vietnam War was proven via recently released files to be a FULL out FALSE FLAG incident, so please get your History straight.

This is not true. JFK stated that he knew the war was impossible to win, but he couldn’t end it because of the political ramifications. That was brought to light in the amazing documentary by Ken Burns. JFK’s legacy was forever changed in my eyes when that was revealed.

vietnam was based on more lies, Gulf of Tonkin was a complete false flag operation used to get us into war with Vietnam...same BS with did in Iraq and the WMDs, same **** we did using 9/11 to catapult us into several wars in the ME with people who had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

[smallgains]

I was at home not believing the story the media was telling us...

[clyde21]

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

<tired trope about how these 3,000 people deserved it and it wasn't because the hijackers were true believers but quit being engineers and sons of lawyers to punish the US for Iraq #1>.

We just see the world differently. If the US had perfect weapons they'd never harm a non-combatant in any of these situations. If Bin Laden, ISIS, Saddam had perfect weapons they'd incinerate every Jew, homosexual and infidel (Shia or Sunni depending on who had the switch) on Earth. That's the difference, you don't care about motive like Chomsky you're infatuated with the esoteric math on body counts.

As far as convincing people about propaganda ... when did I call the ISIS magazine anything other than that? It's literally their newsletter and you don't want people to read what these savages are thinking? How else will people, rational Muslims included, ever understand just how serious these people are if they don't truly understand, believe or care about WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO.

If people like you constantly keep lying about the reason Mohammad Atta incinerated himself and a thousand innocent people how the hell can we fix the problem? The problem is Muslim fanaticism, Muslim irrationality and a total inability to reconcile a dogmatic Muslim way of life with basic Western freedom. Either Islam has it's own modernization or the blood will continue to pour everywhere Muslims and those who live free interact.

how does it feel to be completely and utterly indocterinated, delusional and devoid of any real reality? you're literally just parroting neocon talking points that have been proven to be complete fabrications. get a **** clue guy.

[DowJones]

lol, it's always amazing to me that people are still peddling this Fox News propaganda nonsense 20 years after the fact...absolutely remarkable.

1. Al-Qaeda was never based in Afghanistan. they were funded by Saudia Arabia and were leveraged by Pakistan against the Taliban. The Taliban would've NEVER allowed al-Qaida to set up shop in Afghanistan. Al-Qaida didn't really set foot in Afghanistan until AFTER the US invaded (and ISIS later followed)...because that's what the US does...**** countries up and leave.

2. 9/11 hijackers were primarily Saudi and al-Qaeda themselves were funded by Saudi Wahabi/Salafists...again, absolutely nothing to do with the Afghanistan. So instead of actually attacking the SOURCE, we instead invade a country that has been HISTORICALLY an enemy of al-Qaida.

3. There was a point in time where the US was buddy-buddy with both al-Qaida and the Taliban...funny how perspectives change, right? to America they were considered 'Freedom Fighters' while they were fighting against the Russians...and then became 'terrorists' later on...9/11 was essentially a fallout from that relationship.

4. piggybacking on the last two points, the US didn't go to Afghanistan to find al-Qaida, they went to Afghanistan to control the resources, namely opium which the Taliban had started to remove and burn the fields of at the time

so yea, let's at least get the logistics, history and motivations correct before trying to pass blame around...NONE of these wars had 9/11...they were neo and ziocon wars that leveraged the tragic events of 9/11 to catalyze support for invasions...all based on lies just like the Iraq and Syria and Libyan wars.

I watch MSNBC much more than I ever would Fox News. I think it’s safe to say that we agree to disagree regarding the events after 9-11.

I would like to know what you think America should have done after 9-11. It almost sounds like you want us to apologize to the Islamic terrorists, but I don’t want to put words into your mouth.

Lol...MSNBC is even more warhawking than Fox News...those neoliberal clown cars were legit attacking Trump from the right on Afghanistan and Syria when he said he wanted to leave...they wanted him to stay...the corporatists, warhawks and ziocons have taken deep roots in the establishment of the US regardless of what mainstream channel you're watching.

and I just told you what I wanted the US to do...reading comprehension wanted: go after the people that were actually behind 9/11. you do know who that is right?

You are way too vague when you say "attack those that attacked us". I am asking you to be more specific. Are we invading Saudi Arabia as well? We had to go into Afghanistan because that was where Osama was. So now you have us invading 2 countries? Again--I don't want to put words in your mouth.

[clyde21]

I watch MSNBC much more than I ever would Fox News. I think it’s safe to say that we agree to disagree regarding the events after 9-11.

I would like to know what you think America should have done after 9-11. It almost sounds like you want us to apologize to the Islamic terrorists, but I don’t want to put words into your mouth.

Lol...MSNBC is even more warhawking than Fox News...those neoliberal clown cars were legit attacking Trump from the right on Afghanistan and Syria when he said he wanted to leave...they wanted him to stay...the corporatists, warhawks and ziocons have taken deep roots in the establishment of the US regardless of what mainstream channel you're watching.

and I just told you what I wanted the US to do...reading comprehension wanted: go after the people that were actually behind 9/11. you do know who that is right?

You are way too vague when you say "attack those that attacked us". I am asking you to be more specific. Are we invading Saudi Arabia as well? We had to go into Afghanistan because that was where Osama was. So now you have us invading 2 countries? Again--I don't want to put words in your mouth.

comical.

1. if this was ever about 'finding OBL', why the **** are we still in Afghanistan 2 decades after?

2. why did we follow that up with invading Iraq, Syria, and Libya?

3. i already told you who the source is, al Qaeda was and is being funded by Saudia Wahabists, you want to fight OBL/Al-Qaida you go to the source. The hijackers were Saudi and Saudis are propping up them up (and ISIS)...but instead not only do we not invade Saudia Arabia, but currently in the process of helping them commit genocide in Yemen, while bombing 6 different countries that had NOTHING to do with with 9/11...funny how that works right?

i think it's about time you wake the **** up and admit that the US govt used/leverage 911 to invade, bomb and destabilize the entire ME because that is what they've been itching to do even before 911 happened.

[Clay Davis]

It's a delusion shared by many. Isis literally publishes a MAGAZINE that details in fantastic perfect English "Why they hate us, and why they fight us". Apologists for Islamic irrationality use the body count, geo-political but Isis themselves are shouting from every rooftop that this isn't they reason college educated engineers incinerated themselves and 3,000 strangers. Seriously, take 15 minutes and read their actual newsletter if you don't have time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith.

https://clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf

<tired trope about how these 3,000 people deserved it and it wasn't because the hijackers were true believers but quit being engineers and sons of lawyers to punish the US for Iraq #1>.

We just see the world differently. If the US had perfect weapons they'd never harm a non-combatant in any of these situations. If Bin Laden, ISIS, Saddam had perfect weapons they'd incinerate every Jew, homosexual and infidel (Shia or Sunni depending on who had the switch) on Earth. That's the difference, you don't care about motive like Chomsky you're infatuated with the esoteric math on body counts.

As far as convincing people about propaganda ... when did I call the ISIS magazine anything other than that? It's literally their newsletter and you don't want people to read what these savages are thinking? How else will people, rational Muslims included, ever understand just how serious these people are if they don't truly understand, believe or care about WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO.

If people like you constantly keep lying about the reason Mohammad Atta incinerated himself and a thousand innocent people how the hell can we fix the problem? The problem is Muslim fanaticism, Muslim irrationality and a total inability to reconcile a dogmatic Muslim way of life with basic Western freedom. Either Islam has it's own modernization or the blood will continue to pour everywhere Muslims and those who live free interact.

ISIS holds that their conclusions regarding Islamic jurisprudence are correct despite the vast, vast, vast majority of people who spend their entire life studying Islam from a legal standpoint actually disagreeing. The fact that this goes over your head belies the fact that you have a literal need to view Muslims the way that you do. Guess what, you're surrounded by tens of thousands of rational Muslims who don't agree with the conception of jihad that ISIS has.

And here's an excerpt from Mohamed Atta's wikipedia page:
"He harbored anger and resentment toward the U.S. for its policy in Islamic nations of the middle east, with nothing enflaming his ire more than the Oslo Accords and the Gulf War in particular"

Bin Laden send the following regarding his motives for attacking the U.S.:
"(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
[...]

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

If the U.S. wasn't so hawkish and keen on establishing its military presence at the expense of innocents, Muslim terrorism would not be as big of a problem as it is today (and, really, its size as a problem is exaggerated for political gain at the level of elections and at the level of policy, being contributors to the election of Trump and the wasteful, unnecessary War on Terror.)

[clyde21]

<tired trope about how these 3,000 people deserved it and it wasn't because the hijackers were true believers but quit being engineers and sons of lawyers to punish the US for Iraq #1>.

We just see the world differently. If the US had perfect weapons they'd never harm a non-combatant in any of these situations. If Bin Laden, ISIS, Saddam had perfect weapons they'd incinerate every Jew, homosexual and infidel (Shia or Sunni depending on who had the switch) on Earth. That's the difference, you don't care about motive like Chomsky you're infatuated with the esoteric math on body counts.

As far as convincing people about propaganda ... when did I call the ISIS magazine anything other than that? It's literally their newsletter and you don't want people to read what these savages are thinking? How else will people, rational Muslims included, ever understand just how serious these people are if they don't truly understand, believe or care about WHY THEY DO WHAT THEY DO.

If people like you constantly keep lying about the reason Mohammad Atta incinerated himself and a thousand innocent people how the hell can we fix the problem? The problem is Muslim fanaticism, Muslim irrationality and a total inability to reconcile a dogmatic Muslim way of life with basic Western freedom. Either Islam has it's own modernization or the blood will continue to pour everywhere Muslims and those who live free interact.

ISIS holds that their conclusions regarding Islamic jurisprudence are correct despite the vast, vast, vast majority of people who spend their entire life studying Islam from a legal standpoint actually disagreeing. The fact that this goes over your head belies the fact that you have a literal need to view Muslims the way that you do. Guess what, you're surrounded by tens of thousands of rational Muslims who don't agree with the conception of jihad that ISIS has.

And here's an excerpt from Mohamed Atta's wikipedia page:
"He harbored anger and resentment toward the U.S. for its policy in Islamic nations of the middle east, with nothing enflaming his ire more than the Oslo Accords and the Gulf War in particular"

Bin Laden send the following regarding his motives for attacking the U.S.:
"(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you?
[...]

As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

If the U.S. wasn't so hawkish and keen on establishing its military presence at the expense of innocents, Muslim terrorism would not be as big of a problem as it is today (and, really, its size as a problem is exaggerated for political gain at the level of elections and at the level of policy, being contributors to the election of Trump and the wasteful, unnecessary War on Terror.)

it's pretty comical

when America helped create Al Qaeda and Taliban and was funding them to fight the Russians, they were hailed as heroes and freedom fighters...fast forward 20 years and when the shoe no longer fits they're terrorists and 'IsLAM is INcOmPaTiBlE WiTh tHe WeSt'

what a ridiculous simpleton and uneducated viewpoint

furthermore, Islamic terrorism isn't even a problem for Americans lol...99% of all ISIS/Al-Qaeda victims are OTHER Muslims...Americans are more likely to be struck by lightening than die by a Muslim terrorist.

i think nedleeds should be more worried about his own domestic terrorists first

[Vibranium]

Still in the womb

[daswunderboy]

University book store buying my course books. Radio playing in the store, interrupted by news. Line to pay for the books was long enough that I got the "breaking news" and then "more breaking news, the other tower was hit".