If Lebron is the GOAT then how did he allow younger star players to catch him in rings already in his era?

[TheFinishSniper]

Hating on Lebron never gets old. Big MJ fan here.

[Ainosterhaspie]

Because it goes both ways. You can't use the "team game" excuse for his losses but give him individual credit for the wins.

Seems self explanatory, no?

It's not that simple.

If a great player wins where few if any in history would win he should get credit for that. If a great player loses where few if any in history would win he should not be blamed for that loss.

[lakerz12]

Because it goes both ways. You can't use the "team game" excuse for his losses but give him individual credit for the wins.

Seems self explanatory, no?

It's not that simple.

If a great player wins where few if any in history would win he should get credit for that. If a great player loses where few if any in history would win he should not be blamed for that loss.

Yes, of course. Every championship should be looked at in context. My point was you can't totally ignore the team factor when it comes to victories and only invoke it when it comes to losses. Which is what many people seem to do.

Side note: why did you delete part of my post when quoting? Please don't do that.

[Lalouie]

I'm an MJ guy but come on....


when does the season start again?

I'm a Kobe and MJ guy and it gets tiresome...but not as tired as Lebron fans thinking he's in the GOAT conversation.....

don't concern yourself. they're all under 20years old. they don't even pay taxes

[Ainosterhaspie]

Because it goes both ways. You can't use the "team game" excuse for his losses but give him individual credit for the wins.

Seems self explanatory, no?

It's not that simple.

If a great player wins where few if any in history would win he should get credit for that. If a great player loses where few if any in history would win he should not be blamed for that loss.

Yes, of course. Every championship should be looked at in context. My point was you can't totally ignore the team factor when it comes to victories and only invoke it when it comes to losses. Which is what many people seem to do.

Side note: why did you delete part of my post when quoting? Please don't do that.

I was onky responding to the part I quoted. I don't think the rest gave necessary context that is lost by a partial quote.

[XxIronChainzxX]

People don’t understand this. They rather deflect and make the conversation about role players like Robert Horry and Steve Kerr

I understand it. You're going to have to explain to me how Kobe allowed Steve Nash to win more MVPs. Or LeBron. That's the ultimate humiliation! Clearly Kobe was overshadowed by younger players. Career over. He might as well just scratch out his own name from the Hall of Fame.

To answer your question, regular season awards mvps aren't as valuable as fmvps. So Kobe was probably more focused on those, and a point can be made that Kobe / Shaq could've won those the years Nash won his. Not to discredit Nash, that's my dude too

Well, then Kobe has fewer of those than Shaq or LeBron, and in fact LeBron has the most fmvps of his generation.

If that's the more important MVP - and it's not - then there's no real argument about LeBron's dominance.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Seriously get the **** over the Lebron hate it's not healthy.

[LipSkinMatter]

Is this seriously the GOAT?

Last minute of a 1 possession game in the Finals. Has Steph on an island. Clear path to the rim.

Instead of driving it on Curry, shooting over Curry, or posting Curry up...he decides to pass it to Tristan Thompson who is being guarded by DPOY Draymond Green.

Even worse, on the next possession, wants no part of guarding KD. Will let Rodney Hood who is in his first playoffs, guard the greatest scorer in the game.

But hey Lebron had a high PER so it’s all good

Watch on YouTube

Is ThIs SeRiOuSlY tHe GoAt

[Run DLC]

If you're the best player in the league by far then your peers shouldn't have the same or nearly the same accomplishments or even better accomplishments than you.

When Jordan learned to win, he didn't lose untill his organization didn't wanna pay him nemore. No1 ate when Jordan ate.

Kobe 3peat, then 2

Shaq 3peat, cut, won one with flash

LeBron well we know how that story played out, everyone ate during the LeBron era.

You gotta give LeBron that, he shared the wealth. Shared the money, shared the trophies

People don’t understand this. They rather deflect and make the conversation about role players like Robert Horry and Steve Kerr

because it's faulse. Who has nearly the same accomplishments or better than lebron in the NBA right now?


lebron vs durant




lebron vs curry



lebron vs kwahi



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let's not forget curry and durant had unite to contend with lebron





curry still has no finals mvp's

This post needs more And1’s.

[Run DLC]

Kobe’s extremists won’t ever let it go. They’ll hang on to Kobe’s five rings in comparison to LeBron’s three as the main reason why Kobe is greater. Sadly, that’s the only thing they’ll have going for them other than shouting out “81 points, killer instinct, clutch”.

[JN61]

Notable thing about so called LeBron era is everyone won during it.

Yeah, because teams have nothing to do with winning chips.

Keep it up.

LeBron has always stacked the deck ever since Miami, apart of the first year with the Lakers. So indeed.

[NeutralObserver]

Not only did people eat during the LeBron era, but he's been on the opposite end of both LARGEST BEATDOWNS in NBA finals history.

Once by the Spurs who were taken to 7 games by the Mavericks

Once by the Warriors who were taken to 7 games by the Rockets.

He comes out West his FIRST YEAR and doesn't come close to making the playoffs. You'd be crazy to NOT question what his career would look like if he played in a competitive conference.

[Gooner]

Notable thing about so called LeBron era is everyone won during it.

Yeah, because teams have nothing to do with winning chips.

Keep it up.

LeBron has always stacked the deck ever since Miami, apart of the first year with the Lakers. So indeed.

He is the initiator of the super team era, he inspired KD to go to Golden State. It's funny how LeBron stans complain about other teams being "too strong" now. How can someone be the GOAT when he has those types of excuses made for him.

[NeutralObserver]

Not only do we create new accomplishments out of thin air for Lebron (8-straight finals-lol), but we also credit him with built-in excuses for losing.

It's weird. His fans KNOW that he stacked the deck in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history and always had the best TEAM, but will still insist that Lebron (himself) made 8 straight finals...and actually winning is negligible because its a team accomplishment. Lol. I think a lot of his fans suffer from loser-fatigue, honestly. They KNOW he's gonna lose in the finals so they'll point to his FG% or something.

For example, on RealGM, you often see excuses for the SUCCESS of Curry, KD, and Kobe.
Meanwhile, there's a weird glorification of Lebron's losses and a neverending list of excuses for his shortcomings.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more a toxic fanbase in sports at the moment.

[liamliam1234]

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more a toxic fanbase in sports at the moment.

I actually could not have found one faster.

The funny thing is, Lebron was in the greatest danger of missing the Finals back when Bosh and Wade were still playing near peak levels in 2012. And he made it as they declined, and he won the 2015 conference without Love and basically without Kyrie against Atlanta, and he cruised through 2016 and ran through 2017 and won 2018 even as the team fell apart around him. And then he goes on a lottery team which had the dumbest possible roster construction, misses a quarter of the season with injury, and "Woah, crazy, Lebron missed the playoffs!"

60 of the games are literally the same regardless of east or west; no rational person believes those twenty-two games of difference were the reason Lebron was a perpetual top two seed (until 2018) in the East rather than a borderline playoff team in the West.

I am not sure why I am even responding to this; it is like every year Kobe stans double down harder in their delusions. Really sad to see.

[Side beard]

Not only do we create new accomplishments out of thin air for Lebron (8-straight finals-lol), but we also credit him with built-in excuses for losing.

It's weird. His fans KNOW that he stacked the deck in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history and always had the best TEAM, but will still insist that Lebron (himself) made 8 straight finals...and actually winning is negligible because its a team accomplishment. Lol. I think a lot of his fans suffer from loser-fatigue, honestly. They KNOW he's gonna lose in the finals so they'll point to his FG% or something.

For example, on RealGM, you often see excuses for the SUCCESS of Curry, KD, and Kobe.
Meanwhile, there's a weird glorification of Lebron's losses and a neverending list of excuses for his shortcomings.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more a toxic fanbase in sports at the moment.

Is East really that much weaker than it was in the 90s? If I roughly went over NBA standings for 90s, there are plenty of **** records for Eastern Conference teams.

But maybe you're just ignoring the fact that Lebron swept all these teams that supposedly had to bring him down.

[LKN]

Not only do we create new accomplishments out of thin air for Lebron (8-straight finals-lol), but we also credit him with built-in excuses for losing.

It's weird. His fans KNOW that he stacked the deck in one of the weakest conferences in NBA history and always had the best TEAM, but will still insist that Lebron (himself) made 8 straight finals...and actually winning is negligible because its a team accomplishment. Lol. I think a lot of his fans suffer from loser-fatigue, honestly. They KNOW he's gonna lose in the finals so they'll point to his FG% or something.

For example, on RealGM, you often see excuses for the SUCCESS of Curry, KD, and Kobe.
Meanwhile, there's a weird glorification of Lebron's losses and a neverending list of excuses for his shortcomings.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a more a toxic fanbase in sports at the moment.

Is East really that much weaker than it was in the 90s? If I roughly go over NBA standings for 90s, there are plenty of **** records for Eastern Conference teams.

But maybe you're just ignoring the fact that Lebron swept all these teams that supposedly had to bring him down.

The East has definitely been weaker than the 90s. There have been several threads comparing the SRS of LBJ/MJs playoff opponents.

Lebron's finals opponents definitely have a higher average SRS.

MJ's opponents in every other round have a higher average SRS.

If you search around a bit you can probably find the info.

[Jabroni Lames]

Draymond Green is 29, as is Klay. Does it bother you that KD allowed younger players like them to pass him in rings? I mean, KD will retire with at least one ring less than them, making him (by your logic) inferior to them both. Pretty sad, huh?

None of these guys can hold a candle to Robert Horry (7 rings). Even MJ bows down to Big Shot Rob.

Personally, I don't even glance up from my morning paper if the ring count isn't in double figures....

lol. Bill Russell has 12 rings. That's more rings than fingers (+ thumbs). Think about that....

[jason bourne]

LeBron isn't GOAT. That belongs to MJ. However, LeBron is probably second. Despite not winning rings, he's been to many finals and consecutive finals. His ring total is just part of the discussion for GOAT. I think he needs other All-Stars more than other greatest players in order to win a championship and that's why he's lacking in rings. Or maybe the hate of NBA fans for his tampering just wore him down.

[Warriorfan]

LeBron has had ad much or more imput into team make up so should take more responsibility than other greats.

LeBron played with talented teams with at least 2 other all star level players.



As the main distributer on all his teams he should take more responsiability.