Jaylen Brown to be moved during the season? Extension talks with Celtics not great

[MotownMadness]

I think a Caris levert type of contract and thats just because his age and two way potential.

[TunaFish]

I don’t even like Jaylen Brown that much but he’s clearly a starter in the NBA. And using his FT% as the prime reason why he’s a bench player seems ridiculous.

He’s got good size, he’s good out on the break, he defends and shoots 3’s at an above average rate. That makes him a starter on about 28 NBA teams even before factoring in that he’s only 22 and likely to improve.

He is not a starter in Boston and I seriously doubt he would start on 28 NBA teams. He is what he is. Free throw shooting is excellent gauge of shooting ability and he has consistently shot 65% over two years. Sure he can improve and so can everybody else but he is the last player I would want on a team that needs shooting from the small forward position and most do. He is better from the bench just like they play him in Boston.

He is the starter in Boston this season and he started 95/144 games the past 2 seasons. So while Stevens has moved him around due to the Celtics depth he’s primarily been a starter.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that he’s better off the bench? His career per minute splits as starter and reserve are pretty much the exact same and he played the best ball of his career in the 2018 playoffs while starting.

And I stick by the statement that he’d start for 28 teams. Other than the Sixers, I could see him starting for any of the other 29 teams. Every team needs a big wing who can guard the Kawhi, Lebron, KD types and Brown is that type of guy.

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

[kanahda ballz]

Pistons may as well go after him simce they have the cap with no one to spend it on. At the very least it causes Boston to match and be really capped out

I think this would be very risky for the Pistons.

They will probably only have a chance at prying Brown away if they offer him the max-which I think is 4 yrs/120mil (same deal Dlo Russell got from the warriors).

If Brown signs this offer sheet and the Celts don't match I believe the Pistons could potentially be in another Josh Smith situation-where they are clogging their cap with an underachieving player.

Pistons can do better than Brown in 2020 free agency. IMO a great target for the Pistons would be Bogdan Bogdanovic of the Kings. He is a very good 3 point shooter and playmaking wing with great size and was outstanding in the recent FIBA tournament.

Something like 4yrs/80mil could get it done for the Pistons.

While I think Brown has a slightly higher ceiling than Bogdan, Bogdan has a much higher floor.

Pistons need 3 point shooting and playmaking wings, not a guy with an iffy 3 pt. shot, below average handles and limited playmaking skills.

[The_Hater]

He is not a starter in Boston and I seriously doubt he would start on 28 NBA teams. He is what he is. Free throw shooting is excellent gauge of shooting ability and he has consistently shot 65% over two years. Sure he can improve and so can everybody else but he is the last player I would want on a team that needs shooting from the small forward position and most do. He is better from the bench just like they play him in Boston.

He is the starter in Boston this season and he started 95/144 games the past 2 seasons. So while Stevens has moved him around due to the Celtics depth he’s primarily been a starter.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that he’s better off the bench? His career per minute splits as starter and reserve are pretty much the exact same and he played the best ball of his career in the 2018 playoffs while starting.

And I stick by the statement that he’d start for 28 teams. Other than the Sixers, I could see him starting for any of the other 29 teams. Every team needs a big wing who can guard the Kawhi, Lebron, KD types and Brown is that type of guy.

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

[TunaFish]

He is the starter in Boston this season and he started 95/144 games the past 2 seasons. So while Stevens has moved him around due to the Celtics depth he’s primarily been a starter.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that he’s better off the bench? His career per minute splits as starter and reserve are pretty much the exact same and he played the best ball of his career in the 2018 playoffs while starting.

And I stick by the statement that he’d start for 28 teams. Other than the Sixers, I could see him starting for any of the other 29 teams. Every team needs a big wing who can guard the Kawhi, Lebron, KD types and Brown is that type of guy.

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

So now you think that Hayward, Tatum and Brown will all start together. Ok, have it your way but the idea that of one of them will start at power forward will be a mismatch made in heaven for most teams.

[DarkAzcura]

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

So now you think that Hayward, Tatum and Brown will all start together. Ok, have it your way but the idea that of one of them will start at power forward will be a mismatch made in heaven for most teams.

Your point was about the 2, though. Now it's about the 4.

Brown plays the 2 fine, so you don't have to move goal posts around to try to push this point that Brown is a bench player. The Celtics' unique situation of having a lot of wings says little to nothing about Brown's ability as a starter elsewhere in the league. Brown, physically, is the prototype for the typical 2/3 wing.

I'm also sure it has been brought up previously, but we are also talking about a guy who was a top 3 player on a team a quarter away from the Finals at the age of 21. This is the player you are saying is definitely a bench player in this league? Really?

[Tiny ball]

Jaylen might end up overpaid too, but he’s younger and better than Evan was plus the cap number has gone up the past 3 years. One team thought Turner was worth $17 million in 2016 while right now all 30 NBA teams would take Brown at $17 without thinking twice.

The starting number is probably about $22-23 million. I personally wouldn’t pay him more than that but he’s almost certainly going to get offered a lot more.

Evan Turner was garbage dunno why Blazers massively overpaid him. Probably, they couldnt attract Tier 1 FAs so they had to settle.
Jaylen has massive potential he can better than Tatum if everything goes right. The combination of his age, athleticism, multi-position defender makes him worth 20 along with the untapped potential. 20 is chump change considering post-ACL Lavine got 4/80.

I completely disagree that he has massive potential or more potential than Tatum.

I don’t think Brown will ever be a reliable shot creator and scorer. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player and you’re right about his defensive versatility, but I think he’s extremely limited in the half court other than being a spot up shooter. His handle is weak and he can’t pass at all.

Brad stated the Celtics practiced 52 hours last year. Boston's player development is lacking. I truly believe he is just learning the game. I see improvement in passing and ball handling this summer. This is a man that because of his athletic ability, size and strength can improve every year till like 30 plus. imho

[The_Hater]

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

So now you think that Hayward, Tatum and Brown will all start together. Ok, have it your way but the idea that of one of them will start at power forward will be a mismatch made in heaven for most teams.

You didn’t click on those links did you? Tatum has been playing tons of PF for the last 2 seasons. And it’s not just me, most people are expecting Tatum, Hayward and Brown to start together just like the past 2 seasons openers. You’re the one in the minority here.

Also, I’m not exactly sure what mismatch you think exists? Boston has been a very good defensive team the past 2 seasons. Their issues have always been on offense.

[TunaFish]

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

So now you think that Hayward, Tatum and Brown will all start together. Ok, have it your way but the idea that of one of them will start at power forward will be a mismatch made in heaven for most teams.

You didn’t click on those links did you? Tatum has been playing tons of PF for the last 2 seasons. And it’s not just me, most people are expecting Tatum, Hayward and Brown to start together just like the past 2 seasons openers. You’re the one in the minority here.

Also, I’m not exactly sure what mismatch you think exists? Boston has been a very good defensive team the past 2 seasons. Their issues have always been on offense.

I am sure Philadelphia (and anyone else with a true pf) would be excited at going against Tatum at the power forward position. I guess Morris wasn't the starting power forward last season for Boston ?

[TunaFish]

Evan Turner was garbage dunno why Blazers massively overpaid him. Probably, they couldnt attract Tier 1 FAs so they had to settle.
Jaylen has massive potential he can better than Tatum if everything goes right. The combination of his age, athleticism, multi-position defender makes him worth 20 along with the untapped potential. 20 is chump change considering post-ACL Lavine got 4/80.

I completely disagree that he has massive potential or more potential than Tatum.

I don’t think Brown will ever be a reliable shot creator and scorer. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player and you’re right about his defensive versatility, but I think he’s extremely limited in the half court other than being a spot up shooter. His handle is weak and he can’t pass at all.

Brad stated the Celtics practiced 52 hours last year. Boston's player development is lacking. I truly believe he is just learning the game. I see improvement in passing and ball handling this summer. This is a man that because of his athletic ability, size and strength can improve every year till like 30 plus. imho

I take it you think Ainge is going to pay Brown starter money? If he could shoot, he would.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Man..he's not worth more than 21-23M/year, and that is being generous. Can't believe how much the CBA has changed salaries, $20M/year used to be like top 5 in the NBA money

[MemphisX]

Man..he's not worth more than 21-23M/year, and that is being generous. Can't believe how much the CBA has changed salaries, $20M/year used to be like top 5 in the NBA money

The problem isn't the CBA. The problem is you want to project 2019 salaries to 2003. Starting wings who have performed well in the playoffs while on their rookie deals have always garnered MAX or near max deals. This is not new. Is he flawed? Yes. But that does not change his value.

[Metallikid]

While he may be worth the max to some teams, I'm not sure Boston is in a cap situation to give him that. You can't have Kemba, Hayward, and Brown all on max deals when Tatum is going to be getting a similar deal the next year. That team isn't good enough to cap yourself out over. Jaylen is a good player and I like having him on the team, he's a good defender and his shooting has improved but if he has to be traded to avoid locking in a team that's probably the 4 seed in the East then that's what has to happen.

If you could get creative and trade Hayward then maybe you figure out a way to keep Jaylen and Jayson and build around them as the future. Not sure what Ainge is thinking but I wouldn't be shocked if Jaylen was moved.

Vucevic + Aminu for Jaylen + Hayward

Might fix both our teams

Hey, shut up with great ideas like that. Nobody in the Eastern Conference actually wants Boston to be good.

[drosereturn]

Jaylen might end up overpaid too, but he’s younger and better than Evan was plus the cap number has gone up the past 3 years. One team thought Turner was worth $17 million in 2016 while right now all 30 NBA teams would take Brown at $17 without thinking twice.

The starting number is probably about $22-23 million. I personally wouldn’t pay him more than that but he’s almost certainly going to get offered a lot more.

Evan Turner was garbage dunno why Blazers massively overpaid him. Probably, they couldnt attract Tier 1 FAs so they had to settle.
Jaylen has massive potential he can better than Tatum if everything goes right. The combination of his age, athleticism, multi-position defender makes him worth 20 along with the untapped potential. 20 is chump change considering post-ACL Lavine got 4/80.

I completely disagree that he has massive potential or more potential than Tatum.

I don’t think Brown will ever be a reliable shot creator and scorer. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player and you’re right about his defensive versatility, but I think he’s extremely limited in the half court other than being a spot up shooter. His handle is weak and he can’t pass at all.

Rightfully disagree to agree. Im not seeing great creator or scorer either but he has literally everything else.
The shooting is already there and he is a handle away from being an all-star (think Jimmy Butler).
The best comp are Jason Richardson/Butler and he has more natural talent than both of them it's a matter of time breaking out.
A player than can average 18/5/3 while being a top 5 defender in his position is an all-star. His godlike athleticism and frame is cherry on the top.

[drosereturn]

Man..he's not worth more than 21-23M/year, and that is being generous. Can't believe how much the CBA has changed salaries, $20M/year used to be like top 5 in the NBA money

Ever heard of Time value of money? 20mil which is the rate he is going to be paid will be nothing in 5 yrs as opposed 5-10 yrs ago.
You add that with exploding cap 30 teams can offer 20 like its chump change. I can imagine the avg starter will earn close to 25 when Jaylen is earning his contract.

[The_Hater]

Evan Turner was garbage dunno why Blazers massively overpaid him. Probably, they couldnt attract Tier 1 FAs so they had to settle.
Jaylen has massive potential he can better than Tatum if everything goes right. The combination of his age, athleticism, multi-position defender makes him worth 20 along with the untapped potential. 20 is chump change considering post-ACL Lavine got 4/80.

I completely disagree that he has massive potential or more potential than Tatum.

I don’t think Brown will ever be a reliable shot creator and scorer. That doesn’t mean he isn’t a good player and you’re right about his defensive versatility, but I think he’s extremely limited in the half court other than being a spot up shooter. His handle is weak and he can’t pass at all.

Rightfully disagree to agree. Im not seeing great creator or scorer either but he has literally everything else.
The shooting is already there and he is a handle away from being an all-star (think Jimmy Butler).
The best comp are Jason Richardson/Butler and he has more natural talent than both of them it's a matter of time breaking out.
A player than can average 18/5/3 while being a top 5 defender in his position is an all-star. His godlike athleticism and frame is cherry on the top.

Is the shooting already there? He’s been around league average on 3FG through 3 seasons and he’s been quite bad (35%) on shots between 16-23 feet. Plus his shooting numbers were actually worse season 3 than season 2.

I don’t think he’s a terrible shooter as one poster in this thread was trying to claim but he’s a far from a dead eye shooter at this point. And coupled with his poor handle and passing that’s why he struggles as a focal point in the half court.

As it is, not very many 18/5 guys end up being all-stars, he’ll need to be better than that. I just think we’re looking at more of a Trevor Ariza/Harrison Barnes/Rudy Gay level of player here.

[CoachD]

This kid and his representation are delusional to think a max contract is deserved,
Giving a max to just 1 guy that isn't a max player will cripple your team for years

[Prokorov]

He is the starter in Boston this season and he started 95/144 games the past 2 seasons. So while Stevens has moved him around due to the Celtics depth he’s primarily been a starter.

I’m not sure how you’ve concluded that he’s better off the bench? His career per minute splits as starter and reserve are pretty much the exact same and he played the best ball of his career in the 2018 playoffs while starting.

And I stick by the statement that he’d start for 28 teams. Other than the Sixers, I could see him starting for any of the other 29 teams. Every team needs a big wing who can guard the Kawhi, Lebron, KD types and Brown is that type of guy.

If he is a starter its only because Boston needs someone to fill the shooting guard position which he is not. He is not beating out Hayward or Tatum. There is also a few other small forwards he would have trouble beating out like: Leonard, George, Doncic, Joe Ingals, Ingram, James, MVP ANTETOKOUNMPO, Gallinari and Bogdanovic because they can shoot.

They’re almost certainly going to start Tatum, Brown and Hayward at the 4-3-2 spots in some variation, which is exactly what they did to start last season and the season before that.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201810160BOS.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710170CLE.html

So I wouldn’t bet against this if I were you.

Plus based on your list you seem to think that teams just start players at whatever position you personally think is their primary position but that’s not how it works. 2’s 3’s and 4’s have become interchangeable hence the reason Boston will start what looks like 3 SF’s together for the 3rd straight season.

they had horford those seasons.

they have the worst defensive center in the NBA now. cant have kanter and also not have a real 4 on the floor especially when stevens is defensive minded.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

Man..he's not worth more than 21-23M/year, and that is being generous. Can't believe how much the CBA has changed salaries, $20M/year used to be like top 5 in the NBA money

Ever heard of Time value of money? 20mil which is the rate he is going to be paid will be nothing in 5 yrs as opposed 5-10 yrs ago.
You add that with exploding cap 30 teams can offer 20 like its chump change. I can imagine the avg starter will earn close to 25 when Jaylen is earning his contract.

Hey bud -- the rate of inflation inst that drastic in a 5 year window. $20 million in 5 years will not depreciate at the rate you are suggesting

I understand the cap, but that wasn't the point being made.

[DreamTeam09]

Dallas would/should max him next summer