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When I use the eye test to watch Kawhi defend Giannis, it becomes clear to me that the scheme was much more impactful than Kawhi's individual defensive performance. We've heard it a million times, but the Raptors truly clogged the paint every single time that Giannis tried to drive, and this defense was effective no matter which Raptors player was guarding him. You can watch this video by Ben Taylor here, if you want to see what I am talking about: https://youtu.be/L-EPx-v1XIY

The most impressive aspect about Kawhi's individual defense on Giannis was how well his quickness, length, and strength matched up with Giannis. However, with the gameplay being "let him shoot, don't let him blow by you", couldn't other strong, quick wings or fours do the same thing that Kawhi did with such excellent coaching and supporting player personnel? I am thinking along the lines of Draymond, Klay, Tucker, George, Gay, Butler, Simmons. You could even include a multitude of others like Lebron, Millsap, Dudley, Winslow, Aaron Gordon, Thaddeus Young, Horford, Richaun Holmes. I am not, by any means, saying that all of these players would be just as successful as the Klaw was, but I definitely think that some of these guys could hold their own if their job was so clear cut and simple.

The main reason why I am asking this is because I am starting to see the narrative of "Kawhi locked down Giannis" and I do not agree with it, and I believe that it is starting to become part of Kawhi Leonard's lore, thus overrating him a bit. However, I would love to see what some of you have to say about this, hopefully helping me see from a different perspective.

No. Kawhi's defense on Giannis was absolutely exceptional.

Despite making the defensive second-team this year, Leonard’s true defensive prowess was shown in the NBA playoffs. Giannis Antetokounmpo was virtually un-guardable during the 2019 season, averaging 27.7 PPG, on 57.8% shooting, with an astounding PER of 30.9. Yet somehow, Leonard guarded the MVP better than anyone all season. Throughout the Toronto series, Giannis averaged 22.6 PPG on 45% shooting. In addition, per 100 points, Giannis only averaged 15.9 points against Kawhi Leonard. The MVP was only shooting 34.6% on the season when guarded by Leonard.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/farbodesnaashari/2019/09/10/player-profile-kawhi-leonard/#32d2df776c29

Yogatti wrote:https://www.12up.com/posts/kawhi-leonard-has-defended-giannis-better-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba-01dbn67g4nxp

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Stats like these are a stain on the concept of team defense

Nope. Giannis was the biggest winner when Kawhi announced he was leaving the conference

I saw a lot of players with Kawhi type defense on Giannis in Fiba WC ...

Yes

Kawhi was excellent on Giannis, but the Raptors' scheme limited his points in transition and had good help defense to contain his drives. Marc Gasol in particular did an excellent job defensively when put in the Giannis P&R and helping on drives.

williamwehttam wrote:When I use the eye test to watch Kawhi defend Giannis, it becomes clear to me that the scheme was much more impactful than Kawhi's individual defensive performance. We've heard it a million times, but the Raptors truly clogged the paint every single time that Giannis tried to drive, and this defense was effective no matter which Raptors player was guarding him. You can watch this video by Ben Taylor here, if you want to see what I am talking about: https://youtu.be/L-EPx-v1XIY

The most impressive aspect about Kawhi's individual defense on Giannis was how well his quickness, length, and strength matched up with Giannis. However, with the gameplay being "let him shoot, don't let him blow by you", couldn't other strong, quick wings or fours do the same thing that Kawhi did with such excellent coaching and supporting player personnel? I am thinking along the lines of Draymond, Klay, Tucker, George, Gay, Butler, Simmons. You could even include a multitude of others like Lebron, Millsap, Dudley, Winslow, Aaron Gordon, Thaddeus Young, Horford, Richaun Holmes. I am not, by any means, saying that all of these players would be just as successful as the Klaw was, but I definitely think that some of these guys could hold their own if their job was so clear cut and simple.

The main reason why I am asking this is because I am starting to see the narrative of "Kawhi locked down Giannis" and I do not agree with it, and I believe that it is starting to become part of Kawhi Leonard's lore, thus overrating him a bit. However, I would love to see what some of you have to say about this, hopefully helping me see from a different perspective.

.

Give credit where is due. To the coach and his staff, to kawhi for meeting expectations and to the rest of team for stepping up. Changing the ingredients gives a different result as Masai has shown. Underrated overrated? I wouldn't underrate him nor do i think he is overrated ( replace him with one of the players you mentioned and they wouldn't be kawhi)

He was the main reason, but we had a lot of length and high IQ defenders on the team.

if he stayed - yes Kawhi locked him down! he's the Greek Freak Stopper

since he left - No it was mostly due to Marc Gasol quarterbacking the defence and clogging the lane giving him nowhere to go.

TDotJon wrote:if he stayed - yes Kawhi locked him down! he's the Greek Freak Stopper

since he left - No it was mostly due to Marc Gasol quarterbacking the defence and clogging the lane giving him nowhere to go.

Drygon wrote:No. Kawhi's defense on Giannis was absolutely exceptional.

Despite making the defensive second-team this year, Leonard’s true defensive prowess was shown in the NBA playoffs. Giannis Antetokounmpo was virtually un-guardable during the 2019 season, averaging 27.7 PPG, on 57.8% shooting, with an astounding PER of 30.9. Yet somehow, Leonard guarded the MVP better than anyone all season. Throughout the Toronto series, Giannis averaged 22.6 PPG on 45% shooting. In addition, per 100 points, Giannis only averaged 15.9 points against Kawhi Leonard. The MVP was only shooting 34.6% on the season when guarded by Leonard.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/farbodesnaashari/2019/09/10/player-profile-kawhi-leonard/#32d2df776c29

Giannis him self

Now, every day in my head, I’m seeing Gasol double-team me,” Antetokounmpo said. “You think I’m joking, but I’m not. I’m not seeing anybody else. I don’t care who’s guarding me. Give me a name. Thaddeus Young. All I’m seeing is Kawhi, Gasol coming because I know that. When I get to that situation, it might not be them. It might be (Joel) Embiid. Ben Simmons guarding me, Embiid double- teaming, but that’s what I’m seeing now. That’s what I feel like I have to do better.” “And, thank you. Thank you, because Gasol and Kawhi made me a better player. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. I’m being honest. They’re going to push me to be better. You gotta use this year as motivation. You cannot just come here and mope around

https://theathletic.com/1001604/2019/05/30/giannis-antetokounmpo-unplugged-bucks-star-sounds-off-about-his-playoff-performance-and-teams-tough-finish/

It gets over hyped.

It was a team scheme, it's not the first time we've beat the Bucks.

Great Defense
Overrated Player
Overrated Opponent

Yogatti wrote:https://www.12up.com/posts/kawhi-leonard-has-defended-giannis-better-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba-01dbn67g4nxp

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Yes, I definitely see where you are coming from, but these stats do not take in to account team schemes, or the amount of time you have in the playoffs to make adjustments and practice. During the regular season, teams like the Knicks are not going to take a ton of practice time teaching how to rush to the lane on a Giannis drive and wall up, they just aren't. When writing my question, I was trying to ask if his defense was really that impressive, considering how limited Giannis game is, and if other strong and quick players with size could perform to a similar degree given the genius coaching and excellent personnel Kawhi had at his disposal. Kawhi was always surrounded by very cerebral defensive players, especially Gasol. I just do not buy the take that "Kawhi locked down Giannis", given the circumstances, and I believe that if you actually look at the film, not just the stats, you can at least see what I am talking about.

williamwehttam wrote:

Yogatti wrote:https://www.12up.com/posts/kawhi-leonard-has-defended-giannis-better-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba-01dbn67g4nxp

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Yes, I definitely see where you are coming from, but these stats do not take in to account team schemes, or the amount of time you have in the playoffs to make adjustments and practice. During the regular season, teams like the Knicks are not going to take a ton of practice time teaching how to rush to the lane on a Giannis drive and wall up, they just aren't. When writing my question, I was trying to ask if his defense was really that impressive, considering how limited Giannis game is, and if other strong and quick players with size could perform to a similar degree given the genius coaching and excellent personnel Kawhi had at his disposal. Kawhi was always surrounded by very cerebral defensive players, especially Gasol. I just do not buy the take that "Kawhi locked down Giannis", given the circumstances, and I believe that if you actually look at the film, not just the stats, you can at least see what I am talking about.

Kawhi was the main defender but whenever he drove Gasol would be right there to body him. Or we have other guys run and double him. But of course, having Kawhi made are schemes more effective with his long arms and big hands. One thing is your gonna be disappointed if you think Kawhi is the same defensive beast he used to be. Having watched him all season his defense was the biggest disappointment. He will have those Kawhi moments once in a while but he just doesn't play defense like he used to. But on offense the man is crazy he will just dominate and get you buckets from nothing.

Now, every day in my head, I’m seeing Gasol double-team me,” Antetokounmpo said. “You think I’m joking, but I’m not. I’m not seeing anybody else.

It was mostly our team defence that stopped him. Kawhi was a huge part of it, of course.

Yogatti wrote:https://www.12up.com/posts/kawhi-leonard-has-defended-giannis-better-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba-01dbn67g4nxp

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this doesn't mean anything, they put Kawhi on Giannis but had Ibaka/Gasol cover the paint completely blocking Giannis off forcing him into shots he can't make

clyde21 wrote:
this doesn't mean anything, they put Kawhi on Giannis but had Ibaka/Gasol cover the paint completely blocking Giannis off forcing him into shots he can't make

They put Pascal on Giannis but had Ibaka/Gasol cover the paint. But Pascal was 33.2. Kawhi was 15.9.

So apparently Pascal had the same team defense that benefited Kawhi but wasn't effective in stopping him like the stats showed

williamwehttam wrote:When I use the eye test to watch Kawhi defend Giannis, it becomes clear to me that the scheme was much more impactful than Kawhi's individual defensive performance. We've heard it a million times, but the Raptors truly clogged the paint every single time that Giannis tried to drive, and this defense was effective no matter which Raptors player was guarding him. You can watch this video by Ben Taylor here, if you want to see what I am talking about: https://youtu.be/L-EPx-v1XIY

The most impressive aspect about Kawhi's individual defense on Giannis was how well his quickness, length, and strength matched up with Giannis. However, with the gameplay being "let him shoot, don't let him blow by you", couldn't other strong, quick wings or fours do the same thing that Kawhi did with such excellent coaching and supporting player personnel? I am thinking along the lines of Draymond, Klay, Tucker, George, Gay, Butler, Simmons. You could even include a multitude of others like Lebron, Millsap, Dudley, Winslow, Aaron Gordon, Thaddeus Young, Horford, Richaun Holmes. I am not, by any means, saying that all of these players would be just as successful as the Klaw was, but I definitely think that some of these guys could hold their own if their job was so clear cut and simple.

The main reason why I am asking this is because I am starting to see the narrative of "Kawhi locked down Giannis" and I do not agree with it, and I believe that it is starting to become part of Kawhi Leonard's lore, thus overrating him a bit. However, I would love to see what some of you have to say about this, hopefully helping me see from a different perspective.

This showed me more that Bledsoe should of never been paid by the Bucks lol