Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop?

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Are 90's Fans Killing Hip Hop?

Yes
6
10%
No, Shaq is
53
90%
 
Total votes: 59

freethedevil
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#261 » by freethedevil » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:27 pm

Clay Davis wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
E-Balla wrote:Image

What would you call an album where nearly every verse and every beat is iconic? Can you say that about any album other than Illmatic?

Song 1: NY State Of Mind has a classic beat, opens the song with iconic bars, ends the first verse with "sleep is the cousin of death", second verse has "I ain't the type of brother made for you to start testing, gimme a Smith and Wesson I'll have **** undressing."

Song 2: Life's a Bitch has a classic beat, AZ opens with what is arguably the best guest verse ever, and Nas follows with another iconic verse from the start (I woke up early on my born day...) to the end (that buck that brought the bottle could've struck the lotto).

Song 3: The World Is Yours has a classic beat, the first verse is one of the most iconic ever with damn near every bar being iconic, 2 of them being so iconic they were turned into hit songs, verse 2 opens with the iconic "God bless your life", verse 3 inspired the name for Will Smith's first solo album.

Song 4: Halftime has an iconic beat, even the intro is iconic (Nasty Nas in ya area, bout to cause mass hysteria), verse 2 and 3 of this song is the first verses on the album that aren't undeniably iconic as great as they are (I mean this was the first single).


No basketball player since george mikan has influenced the game like mikan has. Therefore he is the undisputed goat. :roll: No, see you've **** the analogy. Jordan was nowhere close to the most influential basketball player. He is/was
the most popular. That's where your analogy falls to shreds. TPAB is vastly more popular than illmatic is. Illmatic is mikan to TPAB's Jordan. TPAB, better or worse, has received far more acclaim and attention from general music audiences than any hip hop track proceeding it. Illmatic is seen as one of the greatest hip hop albums ever, TPAB is seen as one of the greatest music albums ever.



Lets see, even if we just ignore analysis of the album itself, like you do, TPAB is:

-> One of the most popular music albums ever
-> One of the most highly rated music albums ever
-> Widely argued for as the GOAT hip hop album
-> Is widely considered the peak of a rapper who is widely anticipated to take jay's z mantle as the greatest

I suppose i should expect this from e "lebron has no logical case for goat" baller, 90's fanboyism at it's finest.
To Pimp A Butterfly was good but too experimental to be widely considered as the GOAT. Saying this as a huge fan of jazz and Thundercat in particular

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using RealGM mobile app

Exclusively to hip hop fans? I guess. But if we're talking in general, it probably has an edge compared to other tracks based on how mainstream hip hop has become and the rep of who made it. Damn basically road TPAB's coattails to a pulitzer
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#262 » by E-Balla » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:54 pm

freethedevil wrote:No basketball player since george mikan has influenced the game like mikan has. Therefore he is the undisputed goat. :roll:

He influenced the gmaes more than anyone else, but not the culture. Sneakers, the NBA as a global phenomenon, baggy shorts, etc. were all MJ.

No, see you've **** the analogy. Jordan was nowhere close to the most influential basketball player. He is/was
the most popular. That's where your analogy falls to shreds. TPAB is vastly more popular than illmatic is.

:lol: There's no way you honestly believe this, right?

TPAB isn't more popular than Dirty Sprite 2 which came out a few months later and is double platinum now (TPAB is 1x platinum). If You're Reading This It's Too Late was probably the most popular project of that year. Let's be 100% real here, no one but rap snobs bump TPAB like that. Like I said it's K. Dot's 4th best album and in terms of sales it's his 3rd best. GKMC and DAMN are both 3x platinum.

Illmatic is 2x platinum.

TPAB, better or worse, has received far more acclaim and attention from general music audiences than any hip hop track proceeding it. Illmatic is seen as one of the greatest hip hop albums ever, TPAB is seen as one of the greatest music albums ever.

:lol:
Lets see, even if we just ignore analysis of the album itself, like you do

Actually in the other thread I analyzed the first 4 tracks of Illmatic. Like I said each beat, each verse, iconic. Play the beat to Wesley's Theory for 20 rap fans and see if they can rap along. Play NY State Of Mind. I bet NY State Of Mind is more well known among older crowds and among kids DS2 is by far the most influential project released that year.

They asked all the draftees who had to go out of K. Dot, Drake, and Cole and each one answered K. Dot. TPAB clearly ain't what you think it is.

-> One of the most popular music albums ever

Citation needed.

-> One of the most highly rated music albums ever
-> Widely argued for as the GOAT hip hop album

By you?

-> Is widely considered the peak of a rapper who is widely anticipated to take jay's z mantle as the greatest

By who? If Jay has the crown in your eyes Drake is the closest thing to dethroning him by whatever criteria put him on top. If not Nas is at the top right with Jay. By my personal criteria Biggie is the GOAT.

I love Kendrick though and he was already in my top 10 after GKMC. Dude is undeniably great, it's just funny you're hyping his 4th best album and 3rd most successful album as the GOAT.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#263 » by Ballerhogger » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:55 pm

Hip hop hasn’t been good since 2007? So no?
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#264 » by E-Balla » Wed Oct 9, 2019 1:57 pm

freethedevil wrote:
Clay Davis wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Lets see, even if we just ignore analysis of the album itself, like you do, TPAB is:

-> One of the most popular music albums ever
-> One of the most highly rated music albums ever
-> Widely argued for as the GOAT hip hop album
-> Is widely considered the peak of a rapper who is widely anticipated to take jay's z mantle as the greatest

I suppose i should expect this from e "lebron has no logical case for goat" baller, 90's fanboyism at it's finest.
To Pimp A Butterfly was good but too experimental to be widely considered as the GOAT. Saying this as a huge fan of jazz and Thundercat in particular

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using RealGM mobile app

Exclusively to hip hop fans? I guess. But if we're talking in general, it probably has an edge compared to other tracks based on how mainstream hip hop has become and the rep of who made it. Damn basically road TPAB's coattails to a pulitzer

FEAR is better than any song on TPAB. As is PRIDE.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#265 » by MJ7 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 2:29 pm

I like modern rap. Sure some of it is more based on the mood and less so the lyrics, but it's still an interesting genre. Never thought emo rap or nu-metal inspired rap metal would be a thing, and they are. I do listen to classic hip hop, though it's usually Memphis rap or a No Limit label release, or some DJ Screw tapes. Guess I'm more of an atmosphere guy over just straight up bars.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#266 » by BloodyQ » Wed Oct 9, 2019 5:04 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:
clyde21 wrote:


if this the 90s Lil Yachty we're okay over here. :lol: :lol: :lol:


I'd take Puffy over anything listed here:
https://www.xxlmag.com/news/2019/07/best-hip-hop-songs-2019-so-far

I will admit to not giving new hip hop since the late 2000s much of a chance though.



I grew up on 90s rap, you're honestly doing yourself a disservice if you're not giving some of these people listed a chance

Anderson Paak, Dreamville (J. Cole's artists), Tyler, Benny the Butcher, Freddie Gibbs, YBN Cordae (talented despite his looks), Denzel Curry and Nipsey Hussel. Overrating the artists of the past is when you place someone like Puff over people like the above, someone like Anderson Paak has more talent in his pinky than Puff ever had



Exactly what you said. I don't know even know what these 90s people are even complaining about. There are so many modern rappers who do the 90s sound. Freddie Gibbs, Skyzoo, Your Old Droog, Rhapsody, Benny the Butcher, Dave, L'Orange, Jonwayne, Conway, Westside Gunn, NoCanDo, Crimeapple, Al Divino etc....the list goes on and on. These guys have albums coming out all the damn time, what are you all even complaining about?? Oh I know...it's because their argument completely collapses once they realize there is so much modern hip-hop that emulates the 90s sound if they just stop being lazy and actually tried to dig for music.

And if you are so in love with 90s rappers, well guess what, they still put out music today. Kool G Rap just released an album last year, Ghostface had a new album this year, Nas had an album this year, Black Thought released an EP last year, De La Soul released an album a few years ago, Havoc had an album a few years ago, A Tribe Called Quest released an album last year, Souls of Mischief released an album a few years ago, Pete Rock is still releasing albums, Cypress Hill dropped an album last year, Snoop released an album this year, Evidence released possibly the best album of 2018 etc......so what are you all complaining about?? Let me guess, a lot of you didn't even know Kool G Rap dropped an album last year right? lol
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#267 » by liamliam1234 » Wed Oct 9, 2019 6:10 pm

How did your quoting become even worse. I literally cannot quote the entirety of your post; it just gives up and cuts out the entire middle chunk, so now I need to do it by hand edit.

You know what, though, maybe that is for the best, considering how much time you wasted arguing as if your individual experience of catharsis for a song you liked could be objectively quantified as more “earned” than one of the greatest and most acclaimed champions of musical catharsis, focusing on random bits and complaints of complexity (I posted “too many notes” as a joke, but here you are playing straight into it...), while still conveniently waltzing right past the opera element (wait, I forget, you probably associate Space Lion with the episode of the show and think that qualifies as a narrative :roll:).

freethedevil wrote:Uh yes, compared to other hip hop artists
:roll:

Never did I assert it was the height of storytelling in music. strawman is made of straw.
If you're looking for that, I direct you to:
Spoiler:
;list=PLKaO0QIZsLUNlJElZfktTuyjMJUO31qOP

;list=PL3PhWT10BW3Urh8ZXXpuU9h526ChwgWKy


Or you know, any number of fantastic stories we've seen delivered musically.


Oh, is the most lyrically-driven musical form not a good enough “story-telling” vehicle for you? I am sorry, I guess I should have given you less credit as a rational actor.

But please, cite Hadestown to me after I name drop it.

Please, cite some mediocre sci-fi adjacent gibberish (are you confusing music videos for musical storytelling again?), or an album which does not really tell a unified story at all and mostly just obliquely discussed general themes (and even then, really only in two — inarguably brilliant — songs). Okay, I will give you some benefit of the doubt and look at Pink Floyd broadly, because The Wall certainly qualifies... and of course falls into my prog rock concept album mention. But even then, for someone who is supposedly such a proponent of musical consistency, the first half of that album is all over the place (and I still suspect you will conflate its storytelling with that of the film).

And since you are so good at losing track of the thread, I would be remiss to point out that I am still not seeing anything approaching Don Giovanni or Rigoletto.

One of your most embarrassing posts...


As usual, you focus on the poster instead of the post.

You have my sympathies.
:violin:


As usual, you drop points when convenient and sidetrack the original as it suits you. The post is embarrassing on its own, but the poster gives it individual comedic context.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#268 » by RiseOfTheEmpire » Wed Oct 9, 2019 8:38 pm

freethedevil wrote:
GeorgeMarcus wrote:
freethedevil wrote:Time for an education fam:
;list=PLu4sMtaJ7fGvgwHgpM7Gafe0eebrjimoU


Kendrick is better than most modern rappers- I'll give you that. But in my lifetime, nobody matches the combined lyricism, swagger and silky smooth delivery of Nas. There's way too many to choose from so I'll go with the last 3 rap songs that came on shuffle today:







Nas makes an appearances in the 3rd verse of the 1st song. It Was Written and Stillmatic are probably just as good as Illmatic in my book.

The 2nd is a quotable classic from GangStarr.

The 3rd isn't 90s- it came out in 2008. Killer beat though and never gets old for me.

No one has combined lyrics, delivery, instrumentals, cinematography, structure, and motifs like Kendrick has. If you're not going to offer actual comparison then don't compare them. Kendrick's tracks do far more than nas's do.


Yeah, but if your voice sounds corny all that jazz is useless. Kendrick sounds like a kid yelling from the back of the class.

If you sound like I can **** you up, it kills it for me.

Nas is syrup man, wtf are you talking about :lol: :lol: He flows like butter, and he doesn't get nasally and annoying to keep his breath going to finish his bars. Pac had that, but he would yell too, but he didn't sound like a child.

Can't take Kendrick and his waa waa delivery. Same thing for Eminem, wish he ghostwrote for somebody with flow, one of the greatest lyricists ever ruined by his whiny, bratty prepubescent voice and blithering idiot flow.

Rap only suits grown men voices. Don't wanna hear the message from some guy who sounds like a bitch ass....go do pop for that, sing your heart out.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#269 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:32 pm

BloodyQ wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Rich Rane wrote:
I'd take Puffy over anything listed here:
https://www.xxlmag.com/news/2019/07/best-hip-hop-songs-2019-so-far

I will admit to not giving new hip hop since the late 2000s much of a chance though.



I grew up on 90s rap, you're honestly doing yourself a disservice if you're not giving some of these people listed a chance

Anderson Paak, Dreamville (J. Cole's artists), Tyler, Benny the Butcher, Freddie Gibbs, YBN Cordae (talented despite his looks), Denzel Curry and Nipsey Hussel. Overrating the artists of the past is when you place someone like Puff over people like the above, someone like Anderson Paak has more talent in his pinky than Puff ever had



Exactly what you said. I don't know even know what these 90s people are even complaining about. There are so many modern rappers who do the 90s sound. Freddie Gibbs, Skyzoo, Your Old Droog, Rhapsody, Benny the Butcher, Dave, L'Orange, Jonwayne, Conway, Westside Gunn, NoCanDo, Crimeapple, Al Divino etc....the list goes on and on. These guys have albums coming out all the damn time, what are you all even complaining about?? Oh I know...it's because their argument completely collapses once they realize there is so much modern hip-hop that emulates the 90s sound if they just stop being lazy and actually tried to dig for music.

And if you are so in love with 90s rappers, well guess what, they still put out music today. Kool G Rap just released an album last year, Ghostface had a new album this year, Nas had an album this year, Black Thought released an EP last year, De La Soul released an album a few years ago, Havoc had an album a few years ago, A Tribe Called Quest released an album last year, Souls of Mischief released an album a few years ago, Pete Rock is still releasing albums, Cypress Hill dropped an album last year, Snoop released an album this year, Evidence released possibly the best album of 2018 etc......so what are you all complaining about?? Let me guess, a lot of you didn't even know Kool G Rap dropped an album last year right? lol



Yeah, it's just people who don't want to give any new music a chance while maintaining that newer music is horrible. I'm NY and I can't stress it enough, that people need to give some Uk rappers a chance, they have some of the best rappers in the world right now.






If people liked Slick Rick and complain about the quality of mainstream rap they should be able to give someone like Wretch 32, Stormzy or Santan Dave a chance.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#270 » by Ben-N1ce » Wed Oct 9, 2019 10:39 pm

Early 90's is GOAT. In a small window Reasonable doubt, Illmatic, Low End Theory, Hard to Earn, 93 Til Infinity, 36 Chambers, The Whut, Doggy Style, Southernplaylistic, 2Pac , The Chronic, Ready to Die and way way more. It was freaking absurd..
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#271 » by freethedevil » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:49 am

liamliam1234 wrote:How did your quoting become even worse. I literally cannot quote the entirety of your post; it just gives up and cuts out the entire middle chunk, so now I need to do it by hand edit.
focusing on random bits and complaints of complexity (I posted “too many notes” as a joke, but here you are playing straight into it...), while still conveniently waltzing right past the opera element (wait, I forget, you probably associate Space Lion with the episode of the show and think that qualifies as a narrative :roll:).

I never made any sort od assertion regarding space lion as a narrative. I asserted that it's an example of how complexity isn't constrained to the density of a composition which, given your sad attempts to appeal to the authority of music teachers, is the only sort of "complexity" a music teacher would talk about it

freethedevil wrote:Uh yes, compared to other hip hop artists
:roll:

Never did I assert it was the height of storytelling in music. strawman is made of straw.
If you're looking for that, I direct you to:
Spoiler:
;list=PLKaO0QIZsLUNlJElZfktTuyjMJUO31qOP

;list=PL3PhWT10BW3Urh8ZXXpuU9h526ChwgWKy


Or you know, any number of fantastic stories we've seen delivered musically.


Oh, is the most lyrically-driven musical form not a good enough “story-telling” vehicle for you? I am sorry, I guess I should have given you less credit as a rational actor.

But please, cite Hadestown to me after I name drop it.

Please, cite some mediocre sci-fi adjacent gibberish (are you confusing music videos for musical storytelling again?),


Both Hurry Up We're Dreaming and Hades Town offer a clear "unified story". If you want to argue that mozart has made better stories, then you're going to have to actually, explain how. Is his story more internally consistent? Is it better paced? It's arcs and elements developed in a more complex manner? You're so preoccupied with asserting your intelligence you forgot to explain your opinions It's rather telling your only critque of m83's narrative is genre realted "scifi-adjacent gibberish", do you actually have anything to say regarding it's story? Calling something mediocre does not make it mediocre. It;s genre is irrelevant and frankly it's hilarious that you think that's a legitmate knock on it as a story.

If Mozart is somehow beyond all these stories to you, then you should be able to explain what specific aspects of Mozart's narrative craft are superior. For all your incredulity, I've yet to see you cite a single element of narrative craft. All you've done is take shots at other music, shots that don't actually offer specific critique and don't offer any sort of point for a comparison. Mozart is the hieght of musical storytelling, and yet you can't give a single semi-coherent argument for his stories.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#272 » by dorkestra » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:59 am

My favorites:
Big L
Nas
Biggie
2pac
Big Pun
Tribe Called Quest
Wu Tang
The Lox
The Roots
Black Star
Jay Z
Eminem
Lil Kim
KRS-One
Craig Mack
Missy Elliott
Pharcyde
NWA
folks who quote what I wrote get choked
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#273 » by Hoopstar23 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:01 am

90s hip hop was great but dont sleep on some of the Early 2000s... that was a great era as well... Hip Hop died after 09 tho
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#274 » by freethedevil » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:23 am

E-Balla wrote:
freethedevil wrote:No basketball player since george mikan has influenced the game like mikan has. Therefore he is the undisputed goat. :roll:

He influenced the gmaes more than anyone else, but not the culture. Sneakers, the NBA as a global phenomenon, baggy shorts, etc. were all MJ.

No, see you've **** the analogy. Jordan was nowhere close to the most influential basketball player. He is/was
the most popular. That's where your analogy falls to shreds. TPAB is vastly more popular than illmatic is.

:lol: There's no way you honestly believe this, right?
TPAB isn't more popular than Dirty Sprite 2 which came out a few months later and is double platinum now (TPAB is 1x platinum). If You're Reading This It's Too Late was probably the most popular project of that year. Let's be 100% real here, no one but rap snobs bump TPAB like that. Like I said it's K. Dot's 4th best album and in terms of sales it's his 3rd best. GKMC and DAMN are both 3x platinum.

Illmatic is 2x platinum.
[.quote]
How long has illimatic been around? How long has tpab? :roll:


Damn's popularity came off the coattails of TPAB. TPAB was what established Kendrick as a trancedent figure in hip hop and damn, despite being universally regarded as a weaker work than gkmc or TPAB by critics is well on pace to become Kendrick's most popular album. DAMN became the first hip hop album to win a Pulitzer off the back of TPAB's artistic recognition. No one bumps TPAB, but the music community as a whole, from swift fans to jazz snobs recognize it as a work of art. Illmatic has never ever been viewed in a similar light outside of the hip hop community.

TPAB, better or worse, has received far more acclaim and attention from general music audiences than any hip hop track proceeding it. Illmatic is seen as one of the greatest hip hop albums ever, TPAB is seen as one of the greatest music albums ever.

:lol:

Actually in the other thread I analyzed the first 4 tracks of Illmatic. Like I said each beat, each verse, iconic. Play the beat to Wesley's Theory for 20 rap fans and see if they can rap along. Play NY State Of Mind. I bet NY State Of Mind is more well known among older crowds and among kids DS2 is by far the most influential project released that year.

You quoted a bunch of lines and then talking about their "influence", so again, no, you're not actually assessing the lyrics.


They asked all the draftees who had to go out of K. Dot, Drake, and Cole and each one answered K. Dot. TPAB clearly ain't what you think it is.

-> One of the most popular music albums ever

Citation needed.

-> One of the most highly rated music albums ever
-> Widely argued for as the GOAT hip hop album

by you?

RYM has it as
-> the 16th highest ranked Album period
-> THe highest ranked hip hop album

Amazing how an album with no goat case is rated as the goat by the idmb of music, and literally got Kendrick a pulitzer, but yeah man it's just me. :roll:
-> Is widely considered the peak of a rapper who is widely anticipated to take jay's z mantle as the greatest

By who? If Jay has the crown in your eyes Drake is the closest thing to dethroning him by whatever criteria put him on top. If not Nas is at the top right with Jay. By my personal criteria Biggie is the GOAT.

I love Kendrick though and he was already in my top 10 after GKMC. Dude is undeniably great, it's just funny you're hyping his 4th best album and 3rd most successful album as the GOAT.

By who?
Here are the google results if you look up is kendrick goat:
https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&sxsrf=ACYBGNRchi2w6myca7W1EaeXUy-_TL3OZg%3A1570688208372&source=hp&ei=0MyeXZa9FLKIggfq96OQAw&q=kendrick+goat&oq=kendrick+goat&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39j0j0i22i30l8.17.1585..1646...0.0..0.183.1215.6j6......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i67j0i131j0i20i263j0i3.w8ZnJQj8AfM&ved=0ahUKEwiW5dfFhZHlAhUyhOAKHer7CDIQ4dUDCAg&uact=5


Here are the google results if you look up is drake goat
https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&sxsrf=ACYBGNSklzW5VmPIm64-NGGZflM4EI7scQ%3A1570688264486&ei=CM2eXbmmHeqc_QbUo4a4CQ&q=is+drake+goat&oq=is+drake+goat&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4865.6666..6740...0.0..0.105.1003.11j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......35i39j0i67j0i131j0j0i20i263.xuUktZ__lxs&ved=0ahUKEwi5yrrghZHlAhVqTt8KHdSRAZcQ4dUDCAs&uact=5

Kendrick has a wide arroy of videos and websites including genius and billbaord. Those two sites, fyi, basically have the unanimous opinion kendrick is on pace for goathood. Drake has like two websites before we get to reddit, and the notable one, genius has everyone agree drake lacks the quality for goathood.

Since you want to use criteria outside of the actual music, we look at perception, and perception wise, drake as goat isn't even a thing. Ditto for nas vs Jay z
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#275 » by Firespo » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 am

Hip hop sucks and always has.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#276 » by liamliam1234 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:41 am

Because it is a waste of time talking to someone who thinks a three-hour full operatic narrative is even comparable to what M83 does. :roll:

    • Intro: Three verses, exceedingly vague, no real plot.
    • Midnight City: “Waiting in the car / Waiting for a ride in the dark” repeated fifteen times with some neat whoops. Far and away the most successful and popular song on the album.
    • Reunion: Three short, also exceedingly vague verses, without any coherent plot. Again, stop treating music videos as “plot”.
    • Where the Boats Go: Instrumental.
    • Wait: Twelve-word verse / “No time” x2 / Eleven-word verse / “No time” x5
    • Tell Me a Story: Cute little dream monologue, but still looking for an actual album narrative.
    • Train to Pluton: Instrumental
    • Claudia Lewis: Actually maybe get some weak semblance of a narrative... in two verses.
    Alone, twenty millions years from my place / A slide, on the starlight / Watch out, a new planet right on my trail! / The space, oh oh it’s mine! / I'm lost, in an infinite night trip / The sun, could make me blind / I wish (I wish), I could bring a girl to my ship / And fly, (Oh oh!) her hand in mine!

    Wow, what incredible story-telling. :-?
    • This Bright Flash: “I killed all the rainbows amd the species.”
    • When Will You Come Home? : Instrumental.
    • Soon My Friend: “I will be yours Sunday.” Titles doing a lot of heavy lifting, and even then, still not seeing a coherent narrative. And this is the end of the first half!
    • My Tears Are Becoming a Sea: “I'm slowly drifting to you (you) / The stars and the planets / Are calling me / A billion years away from you / I'm on my way / I'm on... I'm on...” Again, only the basest sense of plot.
    • New Map: More vague gibberish in the actual song, with the title yet again doing a ton of heavy-lifting.
    • OK Pal: “What do you think I feel when I, when I [take it with / am kissing] you? Somewhere else, somewhere, somewhere else.” Then a vague dream monologue. And then, “We will live, we will dream on the shadow of our world.”
    • Another Wave from You: “I think I saw you there.” We are two-thirds through. :-?
    • Splendour: “What have we to show? / Barren feelings and dust for crow / We can't ever know
    When it's time to go / That's the way to see the end / Glowing out along the river bend / It's not goodbye my only friend / Yesterday started over again.” Really feeling that narrative.
    • Year One, One UFO: Instrumental.
    • Fountains: Instrumental.
    • Steve McQueen: Eighteen lines, and no clear narrative.
    • Echoes of Mine: Another dream monologue, in French! I can read French well enough, but this is automatically inaccessible to most of the people who were just following along in English. But it does not really matter, because, again, only oblique at best “plot”.
    • Klaus I Love You: Instrumental.
    • Outro: “I'm the king of my own land / Facing tempests of dust, I'll fight until the end / Creatures of my dreams raise up and dance with me! / Now and forever, I'm your king!” :lol: Wow, what a pay-off. Really wraps that story up nicely.

I did not call it sci-fi-adjacent gibberish because I hate sci-fi. I called it that because that is what it is. And you present this as some pinnacle of story-telling in music?

Great hill on which to die. Undercut yourself better than I could have possibly hoped.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#277 » by Mighty Quinn » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:48 am

For all the talk about narratives there sure seems to be a lot of confusion between sonic and lyrical narratives. Suppose you're right, operatic narrative is somehow the Umwelt of musical composition (really...it's not). Does that make narratives from other genres pitiable copies? Less complex, even? I can say Prince Paul's "Prince Among Thieves" and The Mars Volta's "DeLoused in the Comatorium" make for compelling storytelling in entirely different ways. Its easy because the idea of musical styles evolving along a linear trajectory is at best nonsensical, at worst, snobbery.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#278 » by liamliam1234 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:07 am

Umwelt
:roll:

Anyway, I am not concerned about the ability of Mozart et al to achieve a sense of “sonic” narrative. And the rest is a strawman based on not properly understanding the contention here. If To Pimp a Butterfly is the clear and unassailable pinnacle of rap because of its “unprecedented” combination of storytelling and composition, then naturally the pinnacle of music must be when the storytelling was even more of a focus and the composition was transcendent. Prince Among Thieves musically is hardly on Mozart’s (or any other names I mentioned) level. Deloused fits into that prog rock mould I mentioned earlier, but even if you want to give it comparable musical credit (I emphatically would not), I would not say what storytelling or narrative elements it does feature remotely approach the substance and enduring textual richness of the best operas.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#279 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:28 pm

freethedevil wrote:How long has illimatic been around? How long has tpab? :roll:

I mean I won't argue against the idea that Illmatic has the benefit of being THE essential East Coast rap album for 25 years. The argument you decided to throw out was that TPAB was more popular though. It isn't by any criteria. Sales, reputation, notoriety...

We have multiple posters HERE named Illmatic. Not one named To Pimp a Butterfly. Illmatic is so influential Kendrick's most culturally impactful album's most prominent influence is probably Illmatic, complete with the picture of K. Dot as a child on the cover.

Damn's popularity came off the coattails of TPAB.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: If anything TPAB rode the coattails of GKMC which was undeniably the biggest album when it came out. How is the LEAST successful of his albums the one propping up the others to you? It's platinum while his other 2 major studio releases are 3x platinum. The Black Panther album is even 1x platinum.

TPAB was the album being propped up by his stardom. It's biggest single was 1x platinum. Here's his multiplatinum songs by album.

GKMC:
Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe
Swimming Pools
Poetic Justice

TPAB:
*crickets*

DAMN:
HUMBLE (his most successful song by far going 8x platinum while BDKMV, LOVE, and Swimming Pools are 4x)
LOVE
LOYALTY

Black Panther:
All The Stars
King's Dead
Pray For Me

You tell me which album is being propped up by his overall stardom looking at that. Come on now, just because you like TPAB a lot doesn't mean everyone does. You should be able to be objective and realize TPAB isn't as major or influential as you thought. Plenty of posters are in here telling you that.

TPAB was what established Kendrick as a trancedent figure in hip hop

GKMC did that. IDK how you missed the buzz for that album it was tremendous. The album dropped as #2 on the charts and quickly rose due to it's staying power and exactly how amazing it was. Section.80 is still my favorite Kendrick Album but GKMC is what put him in the best rapper conversation with Drake.

and damn, despite being universally regarded as a weaker work than gkmc or TPAB by critics is well on pace to become Kendrick's most popular album. DAMN became the first hip hop album to win a Pulitzer off the back of TPAB's artistic recognition. No one bumps TPAB, but the music community as a whole, from swift fans to jazz snobs recognize it as a work of art. Illmatic has never ever been viewed in a similar light outside of the hip hop community.

We're discussing hip hop who gives 2 **** about snobs of other genres that turn their nose down at rap? Right here you're basically admitting in your eyes the GOAT rap album should be determined by what people who don't like rap love. For that matter MBDTF is the clear GOAT. Music elitists loved that album.

Personally I don't care about the opinions of people outside the culture when it comes to determining anything in the culture. DAMN was criticially acclaimed just like the other 2 albums by RAP publications.

You quoted a bunch of lines and then talking about their "influence", so again, no, you're not actually assessing the lyrics.

Totally... By quoting lines I wasn't assessing the lyrics. :crazy:


RYM has it as
-> the 16th highest ranked Album period
-> THe highest ranked hip hop album

Amazing how an album with no goat case is rated as the goat by the idmb of music,

Bro I never heard of RYM in my life. Also I just checked RYM (I'm guessing it stands for rank your music?) and TPAB doesn't have a higher score than Illmatic so thanks for helping my point.

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/kendrick-lamar/to-pimp-a-butterfly-1/

https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/nas/illmatic/

Looks to me like Illmatic is rated higher by the voters unless 4.18 became more than 4.19 overnight.

and literally got Kendrick a pulitzer, but yeah man it's just me. :roll:

DAMN. got him a pultizer are you serious? Basically according to you TPAB is the best album ever because everything Kendrick's better albums achieved were only achieved because TPAB exists. It's the Jesus of his albums, it died for the sins of the other ones which is why individually it pales in terms of success and accolades. :rofl:

Kendrick has a wide arroy of videos and websites including genius and billbaord. Those two sites, fyi, basically have the unanimous opinion kendrick is on pace for goathood. Drake has like two websites before we get to reddit, and the notable one, genius has everyone agree drake lacks the quality for goathood.

Since you want to use criteria outside of the actual music, we look at perception, and perception wise, drake as goat isn't even a thing. Ditto for nas vs Jay z

Perception wise I'm struggling to think you know anyone. Ask anyone ages 30 and under who's their GOAT. I'm guaranteeing you'll hear Lil Wayne and Drake over Kendrick. Kendrick is the Nas of this generation, while Drake is the HOV. One has more artistic integrity, one had more hits while still having 10/10 songs when they decided to be artistic. Of course Drake pales in comparison to Jay and Kendrick doesn't pale in comparison to Nas but he's not Nas.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#280 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:38 pm

Also the reason Kendrick will never be GOAT? He's not versatile enough. Jay-Z has a legit argument for GOAT but it's mostly due to his flexibility and quality. Blueprint, Reasonable Doubt, Black Album, and American Gangster are all completely different. Section.80 is very similar to GKMC and DAMN. TPAB is a departure from that but like I said before it has a declined quality compared to the others if you ask most RAP fans.

To top someone as lyrically amazing as Biggie on the GOAT chart you need to come correct.
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