Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop?

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Are 90's Fans Killing Hip Hop?

Yes
6
10%
No, Shaq is
53
90%
 
Total votes: 59

freethedevil
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#281 » by freethedevil » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:43 pm

liamliam1234 wrote:Because it is a waste of time talking to someone who thinks a three-hour full operatic narrative
[/quote]
And yet again, your argument for mozart's storytelling is its genre, not the craft. I wonder why that is? Also, lol at using length as an indication of quality. :roll:


    • Intro: Three verses, exceedingly vague, no real plot.

Ah yes, it's bad storytelling if you have to think about the lyrics. :roll: As I expected, the second you had to actually analyze specifics, your reasoning completely fell apart. Regardless, if you actually paid attention, you'd see intro clearly establishes the setting of the album, a setting reinforced by both the picture and the actual album title:
We didn't need a story, we didn't need a real world
We just had to keep walking
And we became the stories, we became the places
We were the lights, the deserts, the faraway worlds
We were you before you even existed


Say, what's the album called again? Oh right,
"Hurry up, We're dreaming"
Finally, the person speaking speaks like a girl in a whisper. Say what does image show? Oh right, a girl leaning over onto a boy right next to her, on a bed, at night. Gee, it's almost like she's, starting to sleep. Wow, would you look at that, we have, a character and a setting, and the character is about to do something(dream) in said setting. Say, does that sound like a plot to you? It sounds like one to me. :roll: Also, note how all this is effectively established within a few seconds? Again, "length" is not an indication of quality. You do not need three hours to make a well written story. We can debate whether this is well written, but it being three hours long would not suddenly make the writing better. This does, however, highlight an advantage HUWD has over Mozart's operas: show, no tell.

The Magic Flute, for example, breaks the flow of its own narrative repeatedly to exposit feelings, wants and motivations of "Papageno and Tamino". Hurry up we're dreaming does not, and it's an advantage that several more contemporary stories have over older classics. You are not taken out of the story to receive information. This is something we see several times with HUTD where you learn things by going deeper into what is happening.

Now, let's look at the rest of this song. Before though, let's establish the set up for the first stanza:
{quote]we just had to keep walking[/quote]

Carry on, carry on, carry on
And after us the flood
Carry on, carry on, carry on
Our silver horn it leads the way
Banners of gold shine
In the cold, in the cold, in the cold
Footprints of snow
Blind from the road
Hail!

So as our protagonist dreams, their walk becomes a march, the music hits a higher pitch and more sounds enter the fray. We are entering the world of the dreams, and everything ensuing is a journey through this child's sleeping thoughts. Again, there's a character whose clearly doing something in an established setting. This is a plot. Additionally this stanza sets up an aspect of her character:
In the cold, in the cold, in the cold

^^^This sets up the next stanza:

We carry on, carry on
Follow us, we are one
The battle's fought, the deed is done
Our silver hum runs dark and strong
Hand to the heart, lips to the horn
We can stand ?
Hand on my breast, I'll keep you warm

Hail!

The album will elaborate on this later, but dreaming gives our protagonist warmth. Look at the image, what do we see? Oh hey a girl seeking warmth. Now this character's escape to their dreams will come up later, but lets note that this stanza also sets up the ensuing trilogy:
the battle's fought the deed is done

We also get foreshadowing for the ending in the second song in the ensuing trilogy:
follow us we are one

Finally if we look at the first line of the songs, we are given the settings for the next three songs:
We were the lights, the deserts, the faraway worlds


Yes, see, those "music videos" aren't random "gibberish", no, they are set up with the first songs, and are very much parts of the album's story much like different scenes from a play or an opera. :o But back to your analysis of "intro".

It is amazing you can accuse me of undercutting myself when the very first thing you say of the wrong shows you have literally zero familiarity with the text you're critiquing. There is a character, there is a setting. The character is doing something in the said setting. There are also clear setups that will be paid off by a clearly connected trilogy of songs following this through the video, the lyrics, and the instruments. Finally, the song alludes to a character motivation regarding the child's dreams, one it will continue to explore as the album progresses.

Merely the presence, of a setting, an existing subject, and interactions between the subject and the setting that set up later interactions are sufficient to qualify what we've got so far as a plot. How you came to the conclusion of "no plot" for a song that offers a setting, a character, characterization, and the character acting is beyond me. But let's move on. Lets go to the cinematic trilogy we get after.

stop treating music videos as “plot”

Do these three movies have
-> a setting?
Check.
-> Subjects?
Several.
-> Do these subjects do things that set up later interactions with their settings?
Yes.

These videos clearly have a plot. And the plot is clearly tied to what we see before and after the trilogy. You trying to gatekeep what is worthy of analysis is pathetic. Especially since you are literally citing operas, things which also use visual accompaniment, But, for the sake of this exercise, I will ignore the videos since filmmaking apparently isn't a valid medium of narrative. :roll: Though, to tell the truth, given your struggles with "intro", it's probably for the best we dumb down the album's story for you. With that in mind, I'm going to keep the analysis purely lyrical, because if you aren't even grasping what's being said, looking at the music is probably going to be a hill too steep.

Regardless, even if we just boil this down to lyrics, we have a clear set up for the next three songs:
And we became the stories, we became the places
We were the lights, the deserts, the faraway worlds

As has already been established by intro, our protagonist is using their mind to travel between different settings/worlds and experience life through the eyes of different people. Midnight city establishes the setting of the first world she's in. Note the focus on light. Here's our set up:
We were the lights, the deserts, the faraway worlds


Waiting in a car
Waiting for a ride in the dark
The night city grows
Look and see her eyes, they glow
Waiting in a car
Waiting for a ride in the dark
Drinking in the lounge
Following the neon signs
Waiting for a roar
Looking at the mutating skyline
The city is my church
It wraps me in the sparkling twilight

You might notice other elements of craft such as personification, description, and sensory details. Since all this is being described in first person, it all gives us insight into how our protagonist is viewing their current setting. Even though these don't all directly affect the plot, it immerses ourselves into both the world and the character. This isn't something exclusive to this album, but it's something this album does extremely well. This is the other advantage I'd give it over say "the Magic Flute":
-> World Building
Going on tangents that explore the world your story progresses in makes it feel more real immersing ourselves in the text. This is another thing some contemporary pieces have over classics.

That aside, lets tackle the rest of the song:
• Midnight City: “Waiting in the car / Waiting for a ride in the dark” repeated fifteen times with some neat whoops.

Yes, because repetition is inherently bad and not at all useful for storytelling. :roll: See, to analyze the usage of craft, you have to look at the context it's used in. You've observed something, now let's apply context:
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for a ride in the dark

Note that the repetition is not evenly divided. The majority of it comes at the end. Now, let's look at the ending of "wait":
Disappear with night
No time
No time
No time
No time
No time


What's the song called again? "midnight city". As established previously, our protagonist is asleep and has become a new person in a new setting. By the last song, this new person is running out of time. Our protagonist realizes they will wake up, and as a result, the world and people they've become is about to end. The person they've become is panicking and so they repeat "no time" frantically, realizing the dream will end. With this context, we can now look at the repetition used in midnight city. This person is waiting, they don't realize it's going to end. These two lines are repeated because they are the throughline for this trilogy of songs, and they establish the starting and the ending point for our character. We can also use this context for midnight city where our character, no realizing their mortality spends time observing and personifying the city. And we can get all this without ever taking ourselves out of the song. Off course, a good story doesn't just have a starting and an ending point. There's also a journey. Cue, reunion. This song not only explores the character the girl has become, it also looks at the girl herself. Here's the first stanza:
You came out of nowhere
Stealing my heart and brain
Flaming my every cell
You make me feel myself

The person she's become "came out of nowhere", because she was literally made up in her mind. As she has become her, she's given this new person her brain(thoughts) and heart(emotions). And the key bit is "you make me feel myself." Becoming this new person, she understands herself. Hence what this new person feels and experiences will tell us what the real person feels and experiences. Cue characterization:
Across the time and space
A never-ending dance
A blooming and a trance
You make me feel my soul
There's no more loneliness
Only sparkles and sweat

There's no more single fate
You make me feel myself

This is pretty obvious. They become this person to escape from their loneliness. With this context, lets look at intro again:
Hand on my breast, I'll keep you warm

through the cold, through the cold, through the cold

It also confirms why she was "waiting". Note how she describes this world that the next song shows ending as "a never ending dance". She thinks he can stay here forever, and over here, she'll never be alone.

Now, I know I said I won't discuss it, but I really do want to touch on the videos on a bit now that we've contextualized things, The first video has a lonely girl and a group of friends. The second song has the lonely girl drive multiple people into uniting as one person. That one person we see is now all alone along with her in the final song. I'd argue the lonely girl is a representation of the reality the real life girl is escaping from, and the boy is the person/group of friends is who the real life girl imagines herself being.

Regardless, even if you don't like the videos, the lyrics are sufficient here. And now we understand our character. I deem this...
• Reunion: Three short, also exceedingly vague verses, without any coherent plot.

an L.

• Wait: Twelve-word verse / “No time” x2 / Eleven-word verse / “No time” x5

Already looked at the "no time" so let's look at the rest:
Set your dreams where nobody hides
Give your tears to the tide

First, this contextualizes "where the boats go", which uses the hum we saw in into as the girl fell asleep. Her tears, from being lonely, disappear with her dreams where she is, for the purpose of metaphor, sailing through different places. In her dreams, nobody hides from her, so she is not lonely. But of course:
No time
No time

She can't dream forever.
There's no end, there is no goodbye
Disappear with night

She wants to be here forever, but
no time.
no time.

She wakes up.
:cry:

Now we know why it's called "hurry up, we're dreaming."

• Tell Me a Story: Cute little dream monologue, but still looking for an actual album narrative.

Well, our protagonist has been dreaming, and as we see them dream we've learned they're lonely and that they dream to escape to worlds where they are not alone. This song is called "tell me a story", and the story describes the life the girl wants to live:
I heard about this frog
It's a very tiny frog
But it's also very special
You can only find it in the jungle
So far away from me
But if you find it and if you touch it
Your world can change forever
If you touch its skin
You can feel your body changing
And your vision also
And blue becomes red and red becomes blue
And your mommy suddenly becomes your daddy
And everything looks like a giant cupcake

The frog reps her imagination and like her imagination it allows her to manipulate the world around her as she deems fit. Why does the protagonist want to do this?
It's very funny to be a frog
You can dive into the water
And cross the rivers and the oceans
And you can jump all the time and everywhere

It lets her, as she just did in her dreams, go wherever she wants. And off course these places have what she wants:
Do you want to play with me?
We can be a whole group of friends
A whole group of frogs

Jumping into the streets
Jumping into the planet
Climbing up the buildings
Swimming in the lakes and in the bathtubs
We would be hundreds, thousands, millions
The biggest group of friends the world has ever seen
Jumping and laughing forever

It would be great, right?

I'll let you figure this out.
• Train to Pluton: Instrumental


Traveling to another world in her head. She's dreaming again. Pluton is the cooled magma we find below earth's surface. Given this world is her mind, she may be going deeper into her soul. Claudia Lewis shows what this "cooled magma" might be.
• Claudia Lewis: Actually maybe get some weak semblance of a narrative... in two verses.
Alone, twenty millions years from my place / A slide, on the starlight / Watch out, a new planet right on my trail! / The space, oh oh it’s mine! / I'm lost, in an infinite night trip / The sun, could make me blind / I wish (I wish), I could bring a girl to my ship / And fly, (Oh oh!) her hand in mine!

Up until this point, our protagonist has specifically desired friendship. This is the first time the album looks at love. The magma's igniting. The girl's desires are starting to shift. We'll see this come up again in next map. For now, let's look at the bits which set up the next song.
A slide, on the starlight.

and
The sun, could make me blind.

say what's the next song called?
• This Bright Flash:

She's about to wake up. Hence she's killing all the things in her dream. Instrumentally a slow soothing sounds becomes a noisy, fast paced one as a sudden drum beat comes from nowhere. The drum beat instrumnetally signals us to the star from the last song exploding and as it explodes the rainbows and the species of her made up world dies, frogs included. :cry: Her killing the rainbow can also be seen as her killing her childhood. With the "new map", we will see her desires shift accordingly.
• When Will You Come Home? : Instrumental.

This song asks a question which the next song answers. The question comes fro her imagined world. This personification is first used in "reunion":
You came out of nowhere
Stealing my heart and brain
Flaming my every cell
You make me feel myself

The question sets up our next song.
• Soon My Friend: “I will be yours Sunday.” Titles doing a lot of heavy lifting, and even then, still not seeing a coherent narrative. And this is the end of the first half!

She bids her friend(her imagination goodbye), :cry:
• My Tears Are Becoming a Sea:

She's overwhelmed with sadness again. And what does she do when she's sad and alone?
Set your dreams where nobody hides
Give your tears to the tide

Looking at the song, the first stanza establishes she wants to go back to her dreams:
I'm slowly drifting to you
The stars and planets are calling me
A billion years away
From you
I'm on my way

And then she falls asleep leaving out the ending of her lines as she drifts.
I'm on
I'm on

She's dreaming again, but this time her dreams have changed.
• New Map: More vague gibberish in the actual song,

Yes, if you don't understand it, it must be gibberish. :roll:

Let's look at the first part:
There's a hole in your heart, begging for adventure.
Play yourself a new track, set traps for the future.

If it's not clear already, the next track makes clear what kind of "adventure" she's looking for:
What do you think I feel when I, when I, take it with you?
What do you think I see when I, when I, take it with you?
Somewhere else, somewhere, somewhere else
Somewhere else, somewhere else
What do you think I feel when I, when I'm kissing you?
Somewhere else, somewhere, somewhere else
Somewhere else, somewhere, somewhere else

Building on "claudia lewis", the ending sets up "ok friend":
Shifting desire, shifting desire, shifting desire

She wanted friends. Now she wants love. Having looked at the first part of ok pal, let's get to the next one:
"We're walking in the streets, or what's left of them,
I take your hand, and the city is slowly vanishing.
There's no crowd anymore, no cars, no signals.
But in the middle of the road, a purple and mellow shape is floating.
The shape of our mutual dream.
Stay calm, hold me tight, give it a chance to take us away."

The city's vanishing, iow, she's waking up again. She wants to savor the last moments before she's awake. Then she outlines her intention to return there:
We will live, we will dream on the shadow of our world.”

• Another Wave from You: “I think I saw you there.” We are two-thirds through. :-?

Remembering the person she kissed in her dream. With it ending we get "Splendour" where she grapples with the knowledge that her dreams can't last forever. First we see the acknowledgment of the temporal nature of her dreams:
What have we to show?
Barren feelings and dust for crow
We can't ever know
When it's time to go

Then she tries to come to terms with the nature of her dreams by shifting the perspective
That's the way to see the end
Glowing out along the river bend
[b]It's not goodbye my only friend
Yesterday started over again

Instead of seeing it as the death of the world she's experiencing, she sees it as a second chance at her previous which was so overwhelmingly sad, her tears became a sea.

This new framing sets up the album's final act. First, we get two upbeat instrumentals. The second one, fountain, opens with the sounds of birds and a girl's breathing plays throughout the track. I think it's safe to say this instrumental takes place as she's just woken up. The song itself is upbeat and soothing and the girl's aah sounds happy. It would seem she's found a new lease on life. Incidentally, the next song opens up with:
I woke up stronger than ever
Driven by big waves of fire
To run and yell all the way
Nothing can hurt me today
There's a magic inside
Just waiting to burst out
The world is a goldmine
That will melt tomorrow

:o The last time we were in the real world, her tears were becoming a sea. Now she's hopeful?

If it wasn't obvious already, we get:
I just can't recognize myself
Tears of joy run all over my face
My sensations reach the limit
Nothing can hurt me today
There's a magic inside
Just waiting to burst out
There world is a goldmine
That will melt tomorrow

Finally we get:
Living for, living for a thrill
Just waiting, just waiting
Just waiting, just waiting
Just waiting, just waiting
Just waiting, just waiting
Just waiting, just waiting

Say, doesn't this remind you of something...
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for the right time
Waiting in a car
Waiting for a ride in the dark

Note that "waiting" is repeated ten times in both songs. With steve mcqueen, she doesn't wait for anything in particular. Living itself is the thrill. With Midnight city she wants a ride, presumably to the other worlds we see in the next two songs. With Mcqueen, our narrator has found joy internally. With "echoes of mine", we see what this leads to.

Like intro, "echoes of mine" opens with a female narrator talking in a hushed way. Unlike the intro narrator, this woman is older. Our protagonist has grown up. She says she's "looking for her 'other' home." Up until this point, "home" referred to the protag's imagined world. After she navigates she sleeps in a forest. It is night when she sleeps, but it is morning when she wakes up. Considering that she's only slept for a few minutes, surely this is the world of her dreams?

My memories.
Mes souvenirs.

This white and sonorous river, my adolescence.
Cette rivière blanche et sonore, mon adolescence.


Before "splendor", the girl was starting to cope with "shifting desires" as she approached adolescence. Then after splendor, with a new outlook on life, she created a new world, one made of memories, a forest which, unlike her "barren" dream world, she can return to.

We get a final instrumental ,"klaus I love you." and then:
• Outro: :lol: Wow, what a pay-off. Really wraps that story up nicely.

Yes, it does.
“I'm the king of my own land / Facing tempests of dust, I'll fight until the end / Creatures of my dreams raise up and dance with me! / Now and forever, I'm your king!”

When she slept before, she would tneter her dreams to escape from something. But now she isn't seeking refuge, she doesn't need to escape. When she goes to her world, she doesn't hide in it, she rules it. Cue a triumphant instrumental.


I called it that because that is what it is.
[/quote]
:lol:
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#282 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:45 pm

The DAMN slander is insane too. K. Dot making song #5000 about "what if this homeless man was God" is groundbreaking and deserving of a Pulitzer but a song detailing his biggest fears at age 7, 17, and 27 showing how much his world has expanded in just 20 years? Nah, clearly riding the coattails of Funk influenced conscious rap album #200. :roll:
"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#284 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:04 pm

"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#286 » by E-Balla » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:20 pm

"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." - Martin Luther King
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#287 » by liamliam1234 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:59 pm

That is nice poetic analysis, and I hope you had fun with it. I do question how much of that would have been possible without the videos as an explicit guide, at which point we are analysing a video, not a musical production (and my citation of operas has never relied on the use of the opera's visuals, because that is generally not how I consume them), but I suppose the text alone is technically sufficient for those purposes. However, the fact you had to do that much massaging of the material speaks to its narrative airiness, and is something which could be done for pretty much any concept album; would you like me to do the same for Mylo Xyloto and then trumpet it as some spectacular achievement in musical narrative? :lol: And it is especially baffling that you ran away from rap to do so, despite it offering literal scores of richer and more developed examples of realised narratives. Then again, considering your off-hand dismissal of Aesop's Labor Days, I guess this is just another pattern of you confusing your strong affinity for an album as proof of its structural superiority. :crazy:

And I do emphasise the poetic analysis bit. Poetry – or at least non-epics – typically do not develop narratives in the same sense as literature. You whine about "length", but I am not saying a three-hour opera is inherently more narratively complex than a two-hour opera or anything like that, just like a two hundred thousand word novel is not inherently more developed than a fifty-thousand word novel. But we are not comparing among operas, are we? No, we are comparing a few hundred words of poetry (22 songs – would you say an average of 60 words per song is fair?) to a full text, more of a musical play (which is why the Hadestown comparison is such a natural one). It is akin to comparing a singular Pixar short to a Miyazaki film, or a singular song to a cohesive album (which you have repeatedly criticised :roll: ). Frankly, the amount of lyrical content in the entire double album is probably about equal to one especially long prog rock song – say, 2112 – but I guess since it was spread out over twenty-two songs, that makes it actually a narrative triumph, right. It is a matter of development. And the characters in the best operas are fully realised because we have the time for them to be fully realised. It is one thing to have a couple of lines referring to a character as bad, or conflicted, or allude to some vague sadness; it is much more challenging to work through that, and explain that, and understand it and fully develop the resolution to it. It is a difference in scale. Are thirty second songs inherently inferior to ten-minute songs? No, but it is pretty much impossible to develop music in thirty seconds anywhere near the extent of what you can develop in ten minutes.

Again, I hope you legitimately enjoyed writing about that, because it was interesting to read in a vacuum. Giving you the benefit of the doubt as to the relatively self-produced nature of that analysis, if similar analysis is not already on one of those lyric interpretation websites, I sincerely encourage you to post it there. But in the context of this discussion, all you have successfully defended is that it technically functions as a narrative. Unanswered is the actual issue of whether this two thousand word poem about dreaming is remotely the narrative equal of opera's Macbeth. I know, I know, Don Giovanni is narratively quite a ways from Macbeth, so maybe Romeo and Juliet is a better comparison. And as a hypothetical, there are certainly works of poetry (again, almost always epics) which could be competently argued to surpass Romeo and Juliet in narrative excellence. Rime of the Ancient Mariner, perhaps. But M83 are nowhere close to Coleridge, are they? Well, at least not among anyone versed in literary criticism; who knows with you. Regardless, that is functionally what you need to be arguing, even before we get into an analysis of whether M83 were superior composers to Mozart ( :roll: ), but you are so deluded that your own tastes serve as some superior measure of artistic quality that you would rather do that than acknowledge that, oh, wait, maybe liking something a lot does not mean that thing is the pinnacle of the genre. :noway: Like, even after your analysis I still think most of that is rather trite and uncompelling, but I am not going to go and say that its "narrative" is automatically beneath, say, Supper's Ready. Even though I think that, and I think so rather strongly, and I think critical consensus would generally support that take, I can at least see why someone would be more drawn to M83, and I do not need to act as if people who prefer M83 have diminished musical understanding as an accompaniment to that, or as if Genesis's era of music is abjectly superior to M83's era of music by way of Genesis being better individually. Pretty sad how you seem to struggle so much to do the same.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#288 » by rickbrunson » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:33 pm

ThomYorke wrote:It's pretty awkward being a basketball fan and not liking rap music


Contrary to popular opinion, one can like basketball and not listen to music that tirelessly brags about drugs, hoes, and cars. :roll:
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#289 » by Mighty Quinn » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:59 pm

Nando Citarella is a favorite of mine. His work with the Tamburi del' Vesuvio project specifically is a great example of thrashing conventional musical boundaries. All he does is use percussion heavy rhythms to harness the ethnic and cultural interminglings of southern Italy, ancient and modern. His album "Terra e' Motus" amounts to a "great drum" at the foot of the Vesuvius, by which the drumbeat brings the region backwards and forwards in time. It's not just this project either. All of his compositions show a tinge of different influences carried in his local traditions.

I find little merit in comparing musical styles, side by side, unless its showing how cross pollination makes the composition better or worst off.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#290 » by LuDux1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:24 pm

rickbrunson wrote:
ThomYorke wrote:It's pretty awkward being a basketball fan and not liking rap music


Contrary to popular opinion, one can like basketball and not listen to music that tirelessly brags about drugs, hoes, and cars. :roll:



https://youtu.be/RH_EWmO8xII?t=0
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#291 » by Knicks7Tape » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:28 pm

Lil Xan has entered the chat
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#292 » by NO-KG-AI » Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:41 pm

E-Balla wrote:
freethedevil wrote:
E-Balla wrote:

Jordan isn't the goat tho.

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What would you call an album where nearly every verse and every beat is iconic? Can you say that about any album other than Illmatic?

Song 1: NY State Of Mind has a classic beat, opens the song with iconic bars, ends the first verse with "sleep is the cousin of death", second verse has "I ain't the type of brother made for you to start testing, gimme a Smith and Wesson I'll have **** undressing."

Song 2: Life's a Bitch has a classic beat, AZ opens with what is arguably the best guest verse ever, and Nas follows with another iconic verse from the start (I woke up early on my born day...) to the end (that buck that brought the bottle could've struck the lotto).

Song 3: The World Is Yours has a classic beat, the first verse is one of the most iconic ever with damn near every bar being iconic, 2 of them being so iconic they were turned into hit songs, verse 2 opens with the iconic "God bless your life", verse 3 inspired the name for Will Smith's first solo album which was a big record by a top tier star in the game.

Song 4: Halftime has an iconic beat, even the intro is iconic (Nasty Nas in ya area, bout to cause mass hysteria), verse 2 and 3 of this song is the first verses on the album that aren't undeniably iconic as great as they are (I mean this was the first single).

I'm not continuing but just the fact that there's no more heavily quoted album than this 33 minute long one says enough. Other albums might be your favorite but no album had the case for GOAT Illmatic does. TPAB was years ago and you can't argue it's more iconic than even GKMC. How is it the GOAT?



Puhhhh-reachhhh brother.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#293 » by ImSlower » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:04 pm

I think if Kendrick Lamar read this thread, he would tell this insufferable fanboy to move on already and enjoy both periods.

I do appreciate all the linked tracks so far though, both old and new. I'm gonna play Dr Octagonecologyst start-to-finish now.
Jimmy Buckets gonna knock you out!!
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#294 » by LuDux1 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:08 pm

Recently had discussion with someone who thinks Lauryn Hill is not MC and Doo Wop is not hip-hop track :banghead:

Anyway, few borderline hip-hop songs from not hip-hop acts
ftr Q-Tee





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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#296 » by Jurry » Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:19 pm

If there is a lifetime achievement award for insecurity I think we've got an up and coming contender on the scene.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#298 » by Kobblehead » Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:07 am

I used to really like Masta Ace back when I still listened to hip hop.



Dat GOAT baseline ^

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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#299 » by Tave » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:17 am

Glad to see Aesop Rock get some love ITT!

Not the greatest instrumentals by any means, as he’s doing it largely on his own with a shoe-string budget, but good lord is that man an insane lyricist. None Shall Pass is a masterpiece of the genre IMO.

Several years ago, an English grad student did a comparative analysis between the relative vocabulary of Shakespeare vs. notable rappers. The methodology basically consisted of databasing the unique word count for each artist over a given data set of albums/plays. For the most part, it lined up pretty much how’d you expect, with “lesser” mc’s (the Puff Daddys, Ja Rules, etc...) having a far lower unique word count than the “greater” mc’s (Tribe, Rakim, etc...). There were a couple exceptions—guys with crazy internal rhyme schemes (Em) or socially valuable perspectives (Talib) fell slightly below what you might originally guess just based off their ability and stature, and some novel dudes (Cage) scoring way higher. But it more or less lined up with what you might expect. The goal was to see if there was a “Shakespeare” of the rap game, someone with a vocabulary that clearly exceeded all of his peers.

Aes literally broke the chart; there wasn’t enough room on any standard format to delineate the gap between him and everyone else. They had to use one of those zig-zag lines to represent a not-true-scale just to fit him on the page. He crushes everyone in terms of the breadth and depth of his command of the English language. It’s not even a fair contest. Can’t remember who came in #2 but I think EL-P was up there.

Not that any of that analysis makes him a “better” musician than any other, or that you have to appreciate his music, but it was a very telling exercise when you’re talking about pure talent as a lyricist.
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Re: Are 90's Fans Killing Hip-Hop? 

Post#300 » by gst8 » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:18 am

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